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Tall 250l - Y llechen ogof
- Thread starter idris
- Start date
Bobtastic
Member
How are you liking your Ottos? I think they have to be one of my most favourite fish. They're full of character and can happily chase each other round and round the tank. I personally think they really resemble sharks whilest swimming!
I'm surprised how active they are - I think they're really cool. But so are the shrimps.
And that's before they get busier than a Massey Furgeson combine harvester with the diatoms.
I didn't expect the Algea Crew to be so interesting.
Fazial - there is no spray bar as such yet. There is a pipe along the top of the tank (doesn't reply showin the pic) that was going to be drilled as a spray bar, but it went in the tank in a bit of a hurry and it only has a jet type nozzle on it at the moment. Since I've decided to remake the pipes in a larger diameter to aid flow, and the tank still won't be flooded to the top till I get the mosses in, I see no sense in drilling it as a spray bar.
And that's before they get busier than a Massey Furgeson combine harvester with the diatoms.
I didn't expect the Algea Crew to be so interesting.
Fazial - there is no spray bar as such yet. There is a pipe along the top of the tank (doesn't reply showin the pic) that was going to be drilled as a spray bar, but it went in the tank in a bit of a hurry and it only has a jet type nozzle on it at the moment. Since I've decided to remake the pipes in a larger diameter to aid flow, and the tank still won't be flooded to the top till I get the mosses in, I see no sense in drilling it as a spray bar.
Bobtastic
Member
Are you going to run both of your filters at the same time to increase the over all flow?
Bobtastic
Member
A thought to help, is that if you use both filters you could use shorter spray bars on each which should increase the exit velocity of the water from the holes and meaning that the flow should travel deeper into the tank. As you're not concerned about Co2 dispersement you could have them meet in the middle of your can and have no cause to overlap or run the full length of your tank. Just a thought. 😀
Bobtastic
Member
Any updates Idris?
It's always gratifying to be remembered by one's public 🙂
Not a whole lot to report but ...
The biggest change recently has been the addition of more fish. 6 Dwarf Blue Rainbows and 13 Neon Tetras.
The Rainbows have taken over a week to settle in, so it's only in the last 24 hours it's been possible to get any photos of them without setting up a camouflaged hide and recruiting Chris Packham and Kate Humble.
The Neons aren't proving easy to take photos of either, but I think that's a combination of them being small, fidgety, and only having a relatively simple compact camera.
My wife commented that we need some more colour, and I'm inclined to agree with her,. I like the fish I've got, but the whole picture is greens and blues. With hindsight I think I possiby should have gone for some more reddish Tetras, but there feels like plenty more room for fish, so suggestions on a post card to the usual address.
Bearing in mind this is low tech, progress is s.....l.....o.....w.... which is fine by me.
The Crypts have recovered really well, and pretty much all the leaves have grown since the plants grew back after the failed DSM attempt.
The Amazons have also made a pretty good recovery, although patience hasn't quite proved enough, and I think a little more than half the original plants seem to have died. I'll probably replace them in the next week or two. Possibly some more Crypt Wendtii too, to fill out the left and right foreground.
Whilst the Hair Grass hasn't flourished into a lawn yet, they're definitely growing. I suspect it may be worth trimming it a little to force it's growth. Suggestions and comments welcome.
The Vallis doesn't seem to have dome much, but then again, as the tank still isn't full to the top, it's a little difficult to see just how much it has grown.
The Wisteria is still quite dominant, and in the medium to long term this will definitely need rebalancing. Though that's for a future decision.
The whole thing looks like this at the moment.
Moss and new (larger bore) pipes are iminent, and as soon as they're in I'll flood the tank completely.
But just in case anyone thought I've been idle, or I that I don't have too much time on my hands, I needed somewhere better to put tools rather than just stuffing them behind the filter.
Not a whole lot to report but ...
The biggest change recently has been the addition of more fish. 6 Dwarf Blue Rainbows and 13 Neon Tetras.
The Rainbows have taken over a week to settle in, so it's only in the last 24 hours it's been possible to get any photos of them without setting up a camouflaged hide and recruiting Chris Packham and Kate Humble.
The Neons aren't proving easy to take photos of either, but I think that's a combination of them being small, fidgety, and only having a relatively simple compact camera.
My wife commented that we need some more colour, and I'm inclined to agree with her,. I like the fish I've got, but the whole picture is greens and blues. With hindsight I think I possiby should have gone for some more reddish Tetras, but there feels like plenty more room for fish, so suggestions on a post card to the usual address.
Bearing in mind this is low tech, progress is s.....l.....o.....w.... which is fine by me.
The Crypts have recovered really well, and pretty much all the leaves have grown since the plants grew back after the failed DSM attempt.
The Amazons have also made a pretty good recovery, although patience hasn't quite proved enough, and I think a little more than half the original plants seem to have died. I'll probably replace them in the next week or two. Possibly some more Crypt Wendtii too, to fill out the left and right foreground.
Whilst the Hair Grass hasn't flourished into a lawn yet, they're definitely growing. I suspect it may be worth trimming it a little to force it's growth. Suggestions and comments welcome.
The Vallis doesn't seem to have dome much, but then again, as the tank still isn't full to the top, it's a little difficult to see just how much it has grown.
The Wisteria is still quite dominant, and in the medium to long term this will definitely need rebalancing. Though that's for a future decision.
The whole thing looks like this at the moment.
Moss and new (larger bore) pipes are iminent, and as soon as they're in I'll flood the tank completely.
But just in case anyone thought I've been idle, or I that I don't have too much time on my hands, I needed somewhere better to put tools rather than just stuffing them behind the filter.
faizal
Member
😀 😀 😀 That looks simply lovely,....
It is looking soooooooooooooooo much better now!!!!
Congratulations!!!
The hairgrass have gone wild in there. Amazing. Idris,....did you uproot the hairgrass to remove the dying / dead leaves or did you just snip them off?
You mentioned the tank being low tech. Are you still dosing Excel / Liquid carbon,....if so,....are you dosing as per recommended value?
I am curious because you have Vallis in there,...and they look really healthy despite the liquid carbon dosing.
It is looking soooooooooooooooo much better now!!!!
Congratulations!!!
The hairgrass have gone wild in there. Amazing. Idris,....did you uproot the hairgrass to remove the dying / dead leaves or did you just snip them off?
You mentioned the tank being low tech. Are you still dosing Excel / Liquid carbon,....if so,....are you dosing as per recommended value?
I am curious because you have Vallis in there,...and they look really healthy despite the liquid carbon dosing.
Thanks Faizal.
I haven't actualy removed any of the Hairgrass. And to be fair, I don't know how much was actually dying as opposed to just covered in diatoms. Certainly the shrimps did some sterling work on it and there wasn't much left that wasn't green within a few days. Equally I've not trimmed it, though that's a consideration, just to promote more growth.
The recommended dose for the Easycarbo is 1-2ml per 50l per day. ie about 3ml daily. The ferts should be 5ml per 50l per day, ie 10ml per daily. But as mentioned, I keep forgetting so I'm actually only dosing both 2ml Easycarbo and 10ml ferts once every 2-3 days.
I haven't actualy removed any of the Hairgrass. And to be fair, I don't know how much was actually dying as opposed to just covered in diatoms. Certainly the shrimps did some sterling work on it and there wasn't much left that wasn't green within a few days. Equally I've not trimmed it, though that's a consideration, just to promote more growth.
The recommended dose for the Easycarbo is 1-2ml per 50l per day. ie about 3ml daily. The ferts should be 5ml per 50l per day, ie 10ml per daily. But as mentioned, I keep forgetting so I'm actually only dosing both 2ml Easycarbo and 10ml ferts once every 2-3 days.
Bobtastic
Member
It is looking 100% better Idris! I would definitely trim the grass down, it should promote it to send out runners and has the added advantage of making you suffer whilest having to collect up all the trimmings! I want you to feel my pain. 😀
I can't seem to see the last picture either...
I can't seem to see the last picture either...
Three small points of interest at the moment:
1) Although it may not be initially obvious from this picture ...
... the Rainbows aren't actually the star of this photo. It's the grey / white blob in the middle of the frame, at the top of one of the blades of grass. A vermin smail. And if it weren't for the rainbow on the left, two of them would be in vision. I've been able to crush about 1 a day for the last week or two. This afternoon I'm pretty sure I spotted 3 on one clump of Hair Grass. When my tanks have suffered from snails in the past they have escalated to as many as 30 snails removed from a 60 litre tank EVERY DAY! And that could mean over 100 per day in this tank.
So come next week, there will be some more snails in there. Big snails. Fast snails. Hungry snails. Assassin snails! Murhahahaaaaaa
2) Second is much more positive.
I think this is the second, if not third shrimp shuck I've spotted in the tank. To me that says the shrimp are growing, which surely means they think they're in a healthy environment. 🙂
3) Perhaps of most relevance to UKAPS members.
There are quite a few Swords for which I'd given up hope. (More than half of those that went into the tank initially.) All their leaves had died and of those that had been uprooted, there was no sign of root growth. These, however, are two such plants. Tiny leaves they may be, but between the two plants shown there's about 8 or 10 of them, and they're a good colour. There is a similar little sprout on the other side of the tank.
1) Although it may not be initially obvious from this picture ...
... the Rainbows aren't actually the star of this photo. It's the grey / white blob in the middle of the frame, at the top of one of the blades of grass. A vermin smail. And if it weren't for the rainbow on the left, two of them would be in vision. I've been able to crush about 1 a day for the last week or two. This afternoon I'm pretty sure I spotted 3 on one clump of Hair Grass. When my tanks have suffered from snails in the past they have escalated to as many as 30 snails removed from a 60 litre tank EVERY DAY! And that could mean over 100 per day in this tank.
So come next week, there will be some more snails in there. Big snails. Fast snails. Hungry snails. Assassin snails! Murhahahaaaaaa
2) Second is much more positive.
I think this is the second, if not third shrimp shuck I've spotted in the tank. To me that says the shrimp are growing, which surely means they think they're in a healthy environment. 🙂
3) Perhaps of most relevance to UKAPS members.
There are quite a few Swords for which I'd given up hope. (More than half of those that went into the tank initially.) All their leaves had died and of those that had been uprooted, there was no sign of root growth. These, however, are two such plants. Tiny leaves they may be, but between the two plants shown there's about 8 or 10 of them, and they're a good colour. There is a similar little sprout on the other side of the tank.
The other day some moss arrived in the post – Round Pelia and Taiwan Moss. 🙂
But as I have journeyed to this point I have made some errors in judgement and it leaves me with some problems.
First mistake, was the whole DSM débâcle, and the consequences of that decision are still causing ripples. If I hadn't tried it I would almost certainly have tied on the moss before flooding the tank, adding fish, and getting some growth in delicate plants.
The second mistake (though not chronologically) was to have such a tall tank. Dealing with things in the tank without removing them is a right PITA.
Thirdly, despite having the foresight to put holes in the cave roof to feed thread through for tying moss on, the cotton rotted enough to make it useless 2 or 3 weeks before I got the moss.
Fourth, the wall round the shelf is no more than an inch high and at the moment, a deeper layer of substrate would be a great help.
These mistakes have the following result. It's going to be an absolute ***** to tie the moss onto the shelf wall.
With the wood and cave in the tank it's really difficult to tie moss on without disturbing all the plants and hardscape around them.
The fact that I'm having to stand on a chair, and even then can only really reach the things I need to, just compounds the situation.
The thread that was in place to take moss on the wall isn't there any more (fishing line would have helped). As the tops of the holes are now covered in substrate, they are no longer even visible.
With the moss for the wood, this is not the end of the world, just a major inconvenience.
I've manage to tie all the Round Pelia onto a couple of branches on one piece of wood. It's not particularly neat and it doesn't cover as much as I had in my head, but that's probably my own fault and I'm not redoing it now. I shall have to put Taiwan Moss on the other tree stump, but that is in itself is no bad thing, as it will hide the join, and give some continuity between the wood and the stone. 'Tis an ill wind...
With the moss for the cave roof, the situation does give me a major problem.
As far as I can think, I have three options:
1) Leave the cave roof without moss. But I think it would look a lot better with moss, and I hate admitting defeat.
2) Use a large needle to root around the substrate on the cave roof to find the holes and tread the cotton / fishing line through them again. I've tried this, and it is difficult at best. I don't really want to drain the tank to below the shelf, so the water doesn't help. Then there's the issues of disturbing everything else and the problems with height / access. I've uprooted several clumps of Hair Grass in the process of threading just two holes, and replanting them is fiddly as ****.
3) Take the shelf out, and tie the moss on on dry land. I really don't want to think about the disruption this would cause as the cave roof supports the right hand wood, which in turn supports the deep substrate round the end of the tank. Add to that, the Wisteria at the back on the shelf will almost certainly need replanting, as there is nothing except the tank glass to stop the substrate pouring off the back of the shelf as I it gets moved.
I think I shall probably have to have another go at option 2 (rethreading the holes) but I think I'll have to drain most of the tank to do this, otherwise the moss is just going to float off as I try to tie it down.
So all in all, not a great situation to end up in.
On a different note, I am a little concerned about the health of one of my Dwarf Blue Rainbows. At times he has been swimming slightly on his side, and and also with a slight curve in his spine. Sure signs of an unhappy fish. But sometimes he seems fine and is buzzing round the tank and chasing the females like his life depends on it. I've rarely had ill fish recover, so I am not a little worried.
🙁
But as I have journeyed to this point I have made some errors in judgement and it leaves me with some problems.
First mistake, was the whole DSM débâcle, and the consequences of that decision are still causing ripples. If I hadn't tried it I would almost certainly have tied on the moss before flooding the tank, adding fish, and getting some growth in delicate plants.
The second mistake (though not chronologically) was to have such a tall tank. Dealing with things in the tank without removing them is a right PITA.
Thirdly, despite having the foresight to put holes in the cave roof to feed thread through for tying moss on, the cotton rotted enough to make it useless 2 or 3 weeks before I got the moss.
Fourth, the wall round the shelf is no more than an inch high and at the moment, a deeper layer of substrate would be a great help.
These mistakes have the following result. It's going to be an absolute ***** to tie the moss onto the shelf wall.
With the wood and cave in the tank it's really difficult to tie moss on without disturbing all the plants and hardscape around them.
The fact that I'm having to stand on a chair, and even then can only really reach the things I need to, just compounds the situation.
The thread that was in place to take moss on the wall isn't there any more (fishing line would have helped). As the tops of the holes are now covered in substrate, they are no longer even visible.
With the moss for the wood, this is not the end of the world, just a major inconvenience.
I've manage to tie all the Round Pelia onto a couple of branches on one piece of wood. It's not particularly neat and it doesn't cover as much as I had in my head, but that's probably my own fault and I'm not redoing it now. I shall have to put Taiwan Moss on the other tree stump, but that is in itself is no bad thing, as it will hide the join, and give some continuity between the wood and the stone. 'Tis an ill wind...
With the moss for the cave roof, the situation does give me a major problem.
As far as I can think, I have three options:
1) Leave the cave roof without moss. But I think it would look a lot better with moss, and I hate admitting defeat.
2) Use a large needle to root around the substrate on the cave roof to find the holes and tread the cotton / fishing line through them again. I've tried this, and it is difficult at best. I don't really want to drain the tank to below the shelf, so the water doesn't help. Then there's the issues of disturbing everything else and the problems with height / access. I've uprooted several clumps of Hair Grass in the process of threading just two holes, and replanting them is fiddly as ****.
3) Take the shelf out, and tie the moss on on dry land. I really don't want to think about the disruption this would cause as the cave roof supports the right hand wood, which in turn supports the deep substrate round the end of the tank. Add to that, the Wisteria at the back on the shelf will almost certainly need replanting, as there is nothing except the tank glass to stop the substrate pouring off the back of the shelf as I it gets moved.
I think I shall probably have to have another go at option 2 (rethreading the holes) but I think I'll have to drain most of the tank to do this, otherwise the moss is just going to float off as I try to tie it down.
So all in all, not a great situation to end up in.
On a different note, I am a little concerned about the health of one of my Dwarf Blue Rainbows. At times he has been swimming slightly on his side, and and also with a slight curve in his spine. Sure signs of an unhappy fish. But sometimes he seems fine and is buzzing round the tank and chasing the females like his life depends on it. I've rarely had ill fish recover, so I am not a little worried.
🙁
faizal
Member
Hi Idris,....any new pics there? How's the tank coming along?
I've been a bit busy with work in the last couple of weeks so both the tank and journal have had to take a back seat. This is likely to continue for a couple of months. But since most of the hard work is done, and the growing will be at low-tech speeds, it's no big deal in my book.
That said, I didn't want to leave the moss residing in a bucket for too long and tying that on was a priority.
I chose option 2 in the end (see above) and drained the tank so the water level was just below the shelf. Even then tying the Taiwan Moss on was difficult and digging around in the substrate to find the holes in the shelf was quite disruptive in terms of uprooting hair grass.
It was also impractical to get the whole of the shelf covered. Hopefully it will grow in time.
Scruffy, but hopefully effective.
Tying the remainder of the Taiwan Moss onto the wood was easier and the result is a little neater.
Which left the Round Pelia for the other piece of wood.
Again not the neatest of job, but hopefully effective enough.
Admittedly, it's now only a week later now and the cotton is starting to fail. Possibly just rot, possibly down to the shrimps which seem to be pretty active around the moss. I guess I should have listened to advice and used fishing line. But I didn't want to have to go swimming just to remove it once the moss was attached. But it looks like I may have to go swimming to secure it. But none has floated off so far, so I guess I'll wait till it starts to become a problem. (I really don't want to have to deal with the shelf again.
The plants seem to be doing pretty well. Especially the crypts. I'm amazed how well they're doing when I think about how they were when I first flooded the tank.
The swords that have survived have done equally well
but I think I'll have to get some more as about half have never recovered. There should be about 6 plants in this shot.
I can't make any judgement on the use of liquid carbon and Vallis just yet. Now that the tank is fully flooded, the Vallis can stand at it's full height, and it looks good. But there is a little melt, and I'm not experienced enough to say whether that is a result of the liquid carbon.
Despite trying to keep on top of the pest snails they have beaten me.
Although there are only 3 pest snails between the two pictures above, I have counted as many as 12, which is doubtless the tip of the ice berg.So today I have added three ruthless ninja killers … aka Assassin Snails.
I've not seen them munching pest snails yet, but I was assured by the guy at MA that there's nothing like watching an Assassin sprinting across the tank and ripping a snail from it's shell
I'm feeling more confident about the health of rainbows and they seem to be behaving pretty normally. Yesterday one of the Neons spent about 5min sipping air at the surface, which gave me some concern, but it has either died and disappeared from view or recovered.
One note for concern is that I do now seem to be getting a little algae. I've noticed some green spots on the shelf.
Any thoughts / suggestions (that don't compromise the low tech nature of the tank)?
And finally a general view …
To me it feels as though there's a bit of a hole in the middles of the view, but I am confident that will fill in, one way or another. And I really need to sort out the pipes, but that's not a 5 min job so I may have to wait for a few weeks. But generally I'm really quite chuffed.
That said, I didn't want to leave the moss residing in a bucket for too long and tying that on was a priority.
I chose option 2 in the end (see above) and drained the tank so the water level was just below the shelf. Even then tying the Taiwan Moss on was difficult and digging around in the substrate to find the holes in the shelf was quite disruptive in terms of uprooting hair grass.
It was also impractical to get the whole of the shelf covered. Hopefully it will grow in time.
Scruffy, but hopefully effective.
Tying the remainder of the Taiwan Moss onto the wood was easier and the result is a little neater.
Which left the Round Pelia for the other piece of wood.
Again not the neatest of job, but hopefully effective enough.
Admittedly, it's now only a week later now and the cotton is starting to fail. Possibly just rot, possibly down to the shrimps which seem to be pretty active around the moss. I guess I should have listened to advice and used fishing line. But I didn't want to have to go swimming just to remove it once the moss was attached. But it looks like I may have to go swimming to secure it. But none has floated off so far, so I guess I'll wait till it starts to become a problem. (I really don't want to have to deal with the shelf again.
The plants seem to be doing pretty well. Especially the crypts. I'm amazed how well they're doing when I think about how they were when I first flooded the tank.
The swords that have survived have done equally well
but I think I'll have to get some more as about half have never recovered. There should be about 6 plants in this shot.
I can't make any judgement on the use of liquid carbon and Vallis just yet. Now that the tank is fully flooded, the Vallis can stand at it's full height, and it looks good. But there is a little melt, and I'm not experienced enough to say whether that is a result of the liquid carbon.
Despite trying to keep on top of the pest snails they have beaten me.
Although there are only 3 pest snails between the two pictures above, I have counted as many as 12, which is doubtless the tip of the ice berg.So today I have added three ruthless ninja killers … aka Assassin Snails.
I've not seen them munching pest snails yet, but I was assured by the guy at MA that there's nothing like watching an Assassin sprinting across the tank and ripping a snail from it's shell
I'm feeling more confident about the health of rainbows and they seem to be behaving pretty normally. Yesterday one of the Neons spent about 5min sipping air at the surface, which gave me some concern, but it has either died and disappeared from view or recovered.
One note for concern is that I do now seem to be getting a little algae. I've noticed some green spots on the shelf.
Any thoughts / suggestions (that don't compromise the low tech nature of the tank)?
And finally a general view …
To me it feels as though there's a bit of a hole in the middles of the view, but I am confident that will fill in, one way or another. And I really need to sort out the pipes, but that's not a 5 min job so I may have to wait for a few weeks. But generally I'm really quite chuffed.
Looking better & better 🙂
Pelia has become a real nuisance in my tank, I planted some 5-6 years back & even though the tank has been rescaped a couple of times the Pelia remains a nuisance.
Some of the Pelia must of been hiding on the plants I reused to rescape & it grows like a weed, bizarrely enough it is a very satisfying job to weed out the little clumps that form amongst my plants every week.
You can just see a tiny piece peeking out but it turns out to be a nasty unwanted clump entwined withing my plant mass
Pelia has become a real nuisance in my tank, I planted some 5-6 years back & even though the tank has been rescaped a couple of times the Pelia remains a nuisance.
Some of the Pelia must of been hiding on the plants I reused to rescape & it grows like a weed, bizarrely enough it is a very satisfying job to weed out the little clumps that form amongst my plants every week.
You can just see a tiny piece peeking out but it turns out to be a nasty unwanted clump entwined withing my plant mass
Bobtastic
Member
A little big if GSA will probably lend to a more natural looking tank so I don't think it's anything to worry about. Just keep an eye on it.
Your tank is looking nicer and nice with each update. All you need to do is finish that damn spray bar! It'll be interesting to see the effect the change on flow will have (positive/negative). Keep up the good work!
Your tank is looking nicer and nice with each update. All you need to do is finish that damn spray bar! It'll be interesting to see the effect the change on flow will have (positive/negative). Keep up the good work!
faizal
Member
Nice one Idris Glad that it is coming along beautifully. Keep up the good work 😀
Glad that it is coming along beautifully. Keep up the good work 😀