Paul Kettless
Member
I dont have any test kits at the moment, but I do have a TDS meter on order, and I shall order some testing kits soon.
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South American fish choice
- Thread starter Paul Kettless
- Start date
Paul Kettless
Member
Sorry I missed this part of the message, the guys goes by the name of East Coast Aquatics, you will find him on FB, runs it from his home in Lowestoft. And apologies I dont want to mislead you I should have said supplier and not breeder. Use of wrong words there.
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Hi @Paul Kettless
I'll get back to you tomorrow but you should get valuable comments back from others before then.
JPC
I'll get back to you tomorrow but you should get valuable comments back from others before then.
JPC
Paul Kettless
Member
Oh Im sure I will and thanks very much, I am in no hurry at all this is all in the planning stages, tank not even delivered yet. I would rather get it right at this point rather than later. It seems that an RO is the way forward as I dont want to be restricted.
Hi @Paul Kettless
Test kits are out of favour with some people in the hobby. But, I use them and wouldn't be without 'em. There are good and bad test kits, just like anything else. More information to follow tomorrow...
JPC
John q
Member
Probably cause a sh*t storm this being a plant oriented forum but agree with you 100% there paul, to me my fish are far more important than the plants.
I keep my tanks around 26c which to me is the mean temp for the various varieties of fish I keep, its likely a tad low for some and a tad high for others. Plant wise its probably not ideal but does give me a good excuse as to why my plants aren't perfect.
Cheers.
Paul Kettless
Member
Oh I love my plants and I want to keep them for sure, thats why I am here. but not to the detriment of my inhabitants. As far as I am concerned its all about having a balanced equilibrium.
I’d just go a couple of degrees warmer than you originally planned, 24-25 degrees will suit the fish much better and the plants should be fine. All the fish you have chosen will be fine however as mentioned by the others softer water will definitely bring out the best in most South American species. I’d recommend apistogramma borelli or cacutoides if you’re new to apistogramma, they’re hardy and pretty forgiving. The nannacara mentioned are also another great hardy dwarf cichlid.
cheers
Conor
cheers
Conor
Another (Serious) Fan vote for Seriously Fish - the fish profiles are one of the best (OK The Best 😎 ) starting points when planning fish species for your aquarium
I don’t know how “pencilfish” got the reputation for being OK in smaller numbers, I’d consider 10-12 a minimum group size, and if they’re rarely available in your area begin with 14-16 in case of losses
- especially when planning a rimless, you must allocate some numbers for “flying fish”
I recommend dropping the water level 4-8cm below the rim when adding new fish, and maintaining this level for a couple weeks at least, the CO2 fluctuations may also “encourage” new fish to consider the Jump to new waters (it may just make them more reactive etc) and you may want to do this when you begin adding CO2
Note if you’re planning CO2, I’d suggest adding this from the start - your plants will transition and grow in much more easily (quickly, better leaf structure etc etc)
It’s also much easier if you establish plants and algae crew before adding your fish species, this gives you time to sort good (stable) CO2 levels, light times, water (in tank) measurements/(tap) fluctuations, temperature etc (especially if you’re just wanting to go with room ambient temp, how much does this drop overnight)
If you get a decent amount of rain, set up a tall narrow barrel for storage, not too space consuming and cheaper than the RO you’re being quoted (once you pay off the barrel etc cost) - check local grocery shops for RO/DI water, they are usually very economic (but ask how they’re monitoring water quality and safety)
You mention wanting to do SA plants to complement SA fish theme, I’d suggest opening this up if you want “easy” plants, carpet plants etc, especially if you want to do this with some economy and local availability (of plants)
Filipe Oliveira mentions his tank temps (re breeding M ramirezi, successful raising of fry etc)
M altispinosa really does so much better when kept in a group, I’d suggest 5-6 with both males and females (while some people do keep a “pair” successfully, these fish are so “happy” in a group)
Rams and Shrimp - I only keep groups of M ramirezi, and they have always eventually become very efficient group hunters of my shrimp (very interesting behaviour to watch, not so happy for the shrimp), though young shrimp will often live very successfully below a Micranthemum Monte Carlo or Eleocharis hair grass carpet
( again if you establish a large breeding population and dense plant areas first, shrimp survival is much more likely)
Another vote for A borelli for a community dwarf cichlid
(I’d add any dwarf cichlids last)
Re fish selection, I’d likely choose black phantoms in place of the red, as their colour will provide a nice contrast to the “red” fish you’re planning, their behaviour is also very interesting
Note that if you’re adding fish over time, a quarantine/hospital tank is strongly recommended so you can avoid treating plants and shrimp, snails etc, along with your fish (depending upon cabinet construction, you may be able to hide this inside your EA 900, choose an economic all in one (AIO) system or it can be as simple as a glass box with sponge filter + some sort of lid ... better yet, sneak a Nano cube into the kitchen)
I don’t know how “pencilfish” got the reputation for being OK in smaller numbers, I’d consider 10-12 a minimum group size, and if they’re rarely available in your area begin with 14-16 in case of losses
- especially when planning a rimless, you must allocate some numbers for “flying fish”
I recommend dropping the water level 4-8cm below the rim when adding new fish, and maintaining this level for a couple weeks at least, the CO2 fluctuations may also “encourage” new fish to consider the Jump to new waters (it may just make them more reactive etc) and you may want to do this when you begin adding CO2
Note if you’re planning CO2, I’d suggest adding this from the start - your plants will transition and grow in much more easily (quickly, better leaf structure etc etc)
It’s also much easier if you establish plants and algae crew before adding your fish species, this gives you time to sort good (stable) CO2 levels, light times, water (in tank) measurements/(tap) fluctuations, temperature etc (especially if you’re just wanting to go with room ambient temp, how much does this drop overnight)
If you get a decent amount of rain, set up a tall narrow barrel for storage, not too space consuming and cheaper than the RO you’re being quoted (once you pay off the barrel etc cost) - check local grocery shops for RO/DI water, they are usually very economic (but ask how they’re monitoring water quality and safety)
You mention wanting to do SA plants to complement SA fish theme, I’d suggest opening this up if you want “easy” plants, carpet plants etc, especially if you want to do this with some economy and local availability (of plants)
Filipe Oliveira mentions his tank temps (re breeding M ramirezi, successful raising of fry etc)
M altispinosa really does so much better when kept in a group, I’d suggest 5-6 with both males and females (while some people do keep a “pair” successfully, these fish are so “happy” in a group)
Rams and Shrimp - I only keep groups of M ramirezi, and they have always eventually become very efficient group hunters of my shrimp (very interesting behaviour to watch, not so happy for the shrimp), though young shrimp will often live very successfully below a Micranthemum Monte Carlo or Eleocharis hair grass carpet
( again if you establish a large breeding population and dense plant areas first, shrimp survival is much more likely)
Another vote for A borelli for a community dwarf cichlid
(I’d add any dwarf cichlids last)
Re fish selection, I’d likely choose black phantoms in place of the red, as their colour will provide a nice contrast to the “red” fish you’re planning, their behaviour is also very interesting
Note that if you’re adding fish over time, a quarantine/hospital tank is strongly recommended so you can avoid treating plants and shrimp, snails etc, along with your fish (depending upon cabinet construction, you may be able to hide this inside your EA 900, choose an economic all in one (AIO) system or it can be as simple as a glass box with sponge filter + some sort of lid ... better yet, sneak a Nano cube into the kitchen)
Paul Kettless
Member
I now have this added to my favourites, and will be my reference guide for future reading, thanks for this
I actually was watching the Aquarium co-op and Cory suggested groups of 6 and up
I did consider that, and actually did a separate post on why newbies are advised to go low tech, and the large majority of the replys suggested to stay away from c02 and high tech as when things do go wrong, it is easier to resolve low tech, and gives the newbie more time to rectify things. For now Im going to get my head around the basics, buy plenty of easy plants and learn the fundamentals and basics.
Im not going to go with ambient room heating it will def be with a heater, I mentioned that as we have our heating pretty much set to 22, and was working on the principle that the heater wouldnt be working overtime trying to heat the tank.
Really appreciate your time and effort in the reply Alto, some really good info there, and food for thought. I will def be looking at the pencil fish numbers and reconsider. I think from the sound advice that has already been given the Rams are off the list. Not sure about swapping out the flame tetras, the good lady loves them, and with the cardinals were the only 2 fish that she really liked.
Regarding the water situation and hardness, it just goes to prove who sets up the bills and organises the companies in this house, as swmbo informs me that she never arranged the water meter and that we are paying flat rate. When the pandemic took hold, she put it on the back burner. On that basis, and I have my mind set on what I want to achieve now, Im going to buy an RO Unit, and cut it with my tap water. Im sure it can only help in the long run.
I have a quarantine tank yes, alas its not going to be in the cabinet as I bought the tank only, the cabinet is a drawer unit that we have. The Nano would be a fabulous idea, but Im still working on a coffee machine for the kitchen, let alone another tank lol
Kind regards
Paul
Paul Kettless
Member
Im not disputing anything that you guys have been telling me, but George comments that at Aquarium Gardens they have Hardwater in St Ives, and use nothing but tap water, and no need for RO, yet they have an abundance of tetras in there tanks. This hobby makes my head spin, no wonder I dont sleep lol.
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G
Guest
Guest
So, this is one of those things that we know about and acknowledge. If you go to any pet store in the east of England, you'll see almost all aquariums using tap water except (in the good ones) maybe a rack for very expensive softwater fish (expensive L numbers, Atlums, some Corys etc).
The fish are on the surface fine in harder water, but they likely will not breed, breeding for me is the benchmark to whether water is fine. Of course, some fish will breed in hard water. In general, if you get the water right the fish will be just fine. I remember reading that cardinals on dissection showed blockages in internal organs when kept in hardwater. Hardwater also increases pH, so that's something to consider. Ultimately, aquarium shops want to sell fish so keeping them in tap water is one barrier down. I suspect if we could test, you'd see a longer life of fish if they're in a similar parameter to water from where they were caught to where the now live.
I like AG's tanks, and dare I say I'm a semi-regular there. I don't think they're spawning in those tanks, but maybe @Siege can say.
John q
Member
Apologies if this de rails the thread but I have a question re water temp.
On reading a "limited" number of studies on the subject it is suggested that increasing water temperatures in the lab and in natural waterways actually increased plant growth, the cutt of temps here were ~25c.
So is it that at these higher temperatures in an aquarium we have more difficulty maintaining Co2/O2 levels, or are the higher temps more favorable toward algae or is it a combination of the above (or maybe something else).
Again sorry for going off topic paul.
On reading a "limited" number of studies on the subject it is suggested that increasing water temperatures in the lab and in natural waterways actually increased plant growth, the cutt of temps here were ~25c.
So is it that at these higher temperatures in an aquarium we have more difficulty maintaining Co2/O2 levels, or are the higher temps more favorable toward algae or is it a combination of the above (or maybe something else).
Again sorry for going off topic paul.
Paul Kettless
Member
That makes sense, I want my fish to live, not survive. Just intreagued me, and videos like this in some ways give the inexperienced hobbiest the wrong information. As like many others, when doing research I watch videos on you tube. Obvs I dont take everything I read as gospel, and "joe blogs in his fish room with 100 views I take that with a pinch of salt. However, from someone like George Farmer a hugely respected aquascaper, I wouldnt even challenge what I am seeing, and just assume that if its ok for one of the most respected aquascaping shops in the UK, then I must be able to do the same, as we both have hard water. Well mine is actually bordering very hard, and I guess living on the coast has more sodium. To me as some
I posted the video on here to add to the debate and discussion, not to shadow doubt on what many have you have input. To learn is to challenge ideas, and implement the findings in a way that suits me best.
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Paul Kettless
Member
No problem at all, its all relevant to the discussion and debate. I will be interested to see the responses.
Hi all,
Increasing temperature is very relevant to all dissolved gas levels. This is a conversion chart for converting <"dissolved oxygen saturation to mg/L (ppm) values">. You draw a diagonal line through water temperature and ppm DO and it gives % saturation.
cheers Darrel
It obviously depends on the plants what their optimal growth temperatures are, but I don't think that 25oC is unreasonable as temperature where most of the plants, that we grow, are going to be near their optimum growth rate.
Increasing temperature is very relevant to all dissolved gas levels. This is a conversion chart for converting <"dissolved oxygen saturation to mg/L (ppm) values">. You draw a diagonal line through water temperature and ppm DO and it gives % saturation.
cheers Darrel
PARAGUAY
Member
I have kept just black neons and glowlight tetras in large groups they tend to stay together. Interesting marc mdfish tanks has added columbian tetras to his South American set up and noticed because of their bigger size and presence the many groups of smaller tetras shoal more and in case of Silvertips the ha ha heirachy "fights" stopped and groups shoal together. Much like they would in the Amazon
mort
Member
- Joined
- 15 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 2,403
I live in norwich and our water is liquid chalk. I cut mytap with rainwater by differing amounts for my couple of tanks depending on what is in them but my brother who only lives a couple of houses up the road uses exclusively tap water. So its not scientific but I find my pencilfish live much longer lives than his (which were bred my me so same genetics) and it's has to be down to his harder water as I do all his maintanence and he nicks all my fish food.
I don't keep cardinals but his do well for 2 years or so before they begin to dwindle but I know cardinals can live probably twice that so I think water does play a big part in longevity at least.
Can tetra and south Americans live in hard water, quite a few yes as but it's not necessarily optimal. I think why you get conflicting views is due to a different perspective on forums. This forum has knowledgeable people who understand how we can easily manipulate our water to suit it's inhabitants so push more in that direction, whereas your average shop is just happy if you understand you need a filter and how to do a water change.
I don't keep cardinals but his do well for 2 years or so before they begin to dwindle but I know cardinals can live probably twice that so I think water does play a big part in longevity at least.
Can tetra and south Americans live in hard water, quite a few yes as but it's not necessarily optimal. I think why you get conflicting views is due to a different perspective on forums. This forum has knowledgeable people who understand how we can easily manipulate our water to suit it's inhabitants so push more in that direction, whereas your average shop is just happy if you understand you need a filter and how to do a water change.
mort
Member
- Joined
- 15 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 2,403
I think this only works at a certain point though. Columbian tetra can grow into real bruisers and really intimidate certain species when they are mature. I've certainly seem them push timid species into the plants when fully grown as well as starve them out. I think Marc is at the sweet spot at the moment where they aren't dominant enough, plus have the space, to annoy the smaller tetra.
PARAGUAY
Member
I agree think hes keeping a watch. But the presence of a bigger fish if siutable could work. And like you say its a big tank with space and cover
