Sorry -yet another question about BBA

[Edvet]

As far as i know the importance of stable high levels of CO2 lies in the beginning hours of the lighting period. If the levels are good in the beginning you don't need a lighting ramp up, keep CO2 levels high till 1 hour before lights out, it may decline then. During the night plants will produce CO2, thus increasing the dangers for fish if you keep CO2 on. Surface agitation will drive out CO2 and increase O2 uptake, there will be a balance between dissolving CO2 by means of a diffusor and driving it out by means of surface agitation/using a sump. Ideally this balance should lie in the region of 30 ppm (no easy way to measure this).

 

[John P Coates]

As far as i know the importance of stable high levels of CO2 lies in the beginning hours of the lighting period. If the levels are good in the beginning you don't need a lighting ramp up, keep CO2 levels high till 1 hour before lights out, it may decline then. During the night plants will produce CO2, thus increasing the dangers for fish if you keep CO2 on. Surface agitation will drive out CO2 and increase O2 uptake, there will be a balance between dissolving CO2 by means of a diffusor and driving it out by means of surface agitation/using a sump. Ideally this balance should lie in the region of 30 ppm (no easy way to measure this).

Hi Edvet,

Thanks for your reply.

You are echoing what Iain was saying. I will provide a 30 minute lighting ramp-up and ramp-down for the benefit of the fish. CO2 solenoid valve timing will be adapted to suit the lighting profile. There is good surface agitation in the tank at all times. One of the reasons I run my tank at 15 ppm CO2 is that I have no intention of harming my precious fish.

JPC[DOUBLEPOST=1408349774][/DOUBLEPOST]

I'm not questioning any of that. I'm referring to what you said about the variations that will arise once the CO2 is switched off. You expressed concern that the "variation" would be greater at lights off if you raised CO2 to levels higher than 10-15ppm.




What I'm asking is, where does your concern lie, and for what reason?

Hi Henry,

I'm not sure that I can answer your question adequately. I think I've lost my train of thought that led me to say what I did. But if I have a haha moment and it comes back to me, I'll let you know!

JPC[DOUBLEPOST=1408349926][/DOUBLEPOST]Just want to thank everyone else who replied to my question.

JPC

 

[Edvet]

15 ppm CO2 is that I have no intention of harming my precious fish.

15 ppm should be no problem, just adjust your lighting. Remember you'll still need adequate circulation/distribution.
Any pics? What fish are you caring for?

 

[John P Coates]

15 ppm should be no problem, just adjust your lighting. Remember you'll still need adequate circulation/distribution.
Any pics? What fish are you caring for?

Edvet,

There is pretty good circulation in my tank. It is 120 litres (nominal) but with substrate, rocks, etc., it is just over 100 litres and the filter is moving 800 litres per hour.

I have no decent quality pics but I'll try to get some together. The fish are a mixture of Dwarf Gouramis, Rosy Tetras, Odessa Barbs and Gold Rams. Plus some nice Corys and, of course, a few otos.

JPC

 

[John P Coates]

Spot dose the BBA with liquid carbon during WC...

Hi Iain,

With reference to your statement above, I would need to remove 90% of the aquarium water to spot dose some plants. So, my only practical option is to treat the whole tank. Yesterday, I added 2.5ml Flourish Excel to my 100 litres water column. This corresponds to the recommended daily dose for Excel. I will repeat this daily unless you (or anyone else) suggests otherwise. I haven't changed the CO2 injection rate yet because I want to see if the Excel alone will help to kill off the BBA. But, if you feel that I should increase CO2 now, I will.

I was also wondering if it is more effective to add the Excel when the tank lights are on or off.

JPC

 

[Andy Thurston]

Use a syringe to spot treat with the water in, just turn filters off while you do

 

[John P Coates]

Use a syringe to spot treat with the water in, just turn filters off while you do

I hope to try that tomorrow.

Thanks for that.

JPC

 

[ceg4048]

With reference to your statement above, I would need to remove 90% of the aquarium water...

Doing this frequently will be more beneficial, in the long run, than using Excel.

Cheers,

 

[John P Coates]

Doing this frequently will be more beneficial, in the long run, than using Excel.

Cheers,

Weekly water changes are now the norm for me and 20% is workable. Anything more than this starts to become a problem. However, if necessity dictates, where there's a will, there's a way! I do not plan to use Excel long-term. Instead, I will increase CO2 injection rate.

JPC

 

[ceg4048]

It's important to note that although Excel is toxic against BBA it comes right back if the conditions do not improve. It has been discussed ad nauseum that a pH profile check is one of the better ways to determine the the efficacy of the gas dissolution methods.

If the hobbyist determines that increased CO2 injection rate increase is not viable then efforts must be spent in ensuring that the light intensity is reduced, that the distribution techniques are adequate, that flow is sufficient and that the surface of the leaves are kept as clean as possible. Debris trapped in the biofilm coating the leaves is a substantial barrier to CO2 and nutrient uptake. This is one area that people don't pay enough attention to, and that's actually one of the primary goals of a water change.

Cheers,

 

[John P Coates]

It's important to note that although Excel is toxic against BBA it comes right back if the conditions do not improve. It has been discussed ad nauseum that a pH profile check is one of the better ways to determine the the efficacy of the gas dissolution methods.

If the hobbyist determines that increased CO2 injection rate increase is not viable then efforts must be spent in ensuring that the light intensity is reduced, that the distribution techniques are adequate, that flow is sufficient and that the surface of the leaves are kept as clean as possible. Debris trapped in the biofilm coating the leaves is a substantial barrier to CO2 and nutrient uptake. This is one area that people don't pay enough attention to, and that's actually one of the primary goals of a water change.

Cheers,

Hi Clive,

Thanks for the informative reply.

Please explain what is meant by the expression 'pH profile check'.

I'm interested in your comment about keeping the surface of the leaves as clean as possible. Is that both upper and lower surfaces? Does CO2 and O2 gas exchange take place on both surfaces? In my tank, I have a small army of Otocinclus fish that do an amazing job of fettling any surface they find, most of their attention being on plant leaves - both upper and lower surfaces. We tend to think of Otos as algae-eaters (which they are) but they are obviously finding other food forms on 'clean' surfaces.

JPC

 

[Edvet]

'pH profile check'.

Take a pH reading every 30 minutes with a pH measuring device. This way we can see how the pH reacts to the CO2 administration, this in turn gives a clue about the amount available (better and faster then a dropchecker or those charts) Start before you add CO2 and do till lights out

leaves as clean as possible

rub leaves gently between the fingers thus removing scum/slime, best done while the tank is empty during a big waterchange, leaves will take up large amount of CO2 being in the air. So preferable before lights on.

 

[John P Coates]

Clive, Edvet,

OK, in that case I have a continuously running pH profile as I use a seneye device logging pH every 30 minutes 24/7. I will see if I can find a way of attaching the graph that it produces.

JPC