_Maq_
Member
... "they are perfectly happy with whats in the water column" ...
Please, correct me if I'm about to preach to the converted again, but has the topic of adsorption been discussed in this forum?
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Root tabs
- Thread starter Mattant1984
- Start date
Please, correct me if I'm about to preach to the converted again, but has the topic of adsorption been discussed in this forum?
Dennis will soon release some new root tabs. Price is still unknown.
2Hr Aquarist APT Jazz
The best root tabs for aquarium plants. Thicker, fuller growth forms with superior algae control.Nitrate Limitation made easy. Add 1 per 2.5 Square Inch, >1 inch deep.Replenish after 2 months. Why APT JAZZ provides the solution to one of the hobby's most tricky challenges-what to do with mature...
www.2hraquarist.com
Jobiwan
Member
I’m into shrimp, the higher copper level in osmocote versus flourish concerns me, any thoughts?
_Maq_
Member
What do you need root tabs for in the first place?
Jobiwan
Member
Good point
thats why the recommendation is just to get the NPK version without TE and avoid worries about metal toxicity.
I have been curious about this new root tabs that Dennis is selling in his website. He claims a lot of things. Below a summary:
By looking at the appearance (color and texture) of it I started doing some research and came to one conclusion so far. Those are biochar NPK infused root tabs. I could be wrong but biochar checks all the boxes specially the long lasting impact and low ammonia spike release claims. The high CEC of biochar will prevent all the nutrients to be dumped in one go.
@dw1305 and @X3NiTH what are your thoughts on this?
By looking at the appearance (color and texture) of it I started doing some research and came to one conclusion so far. Those are biochar NPK infused root tabs. I could be wrong but biochar checks all the boxes specially the long lasting impact and low ammonia spike release claims. The high CEC of biochar will prevent all the nutrients to be dumped in one go.
@dw1305 and @X3NiTH what are your thoughts on this?
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Looking at the similarity of colour and texture... is there any relationship to Amazonia Supplement? (I would need to whack at the Amazonia with a hammer to make smaller pieces like the Jazz tho'....)
I do not think they are the same at all. These ADA tabs are extruded. You can see it by the shape. They are also brown and not black which tells me they are clay based. I initially wanted to buy the ones from Dennis but I then looked at the price and # tabs in the package and got a heart attack. You'd be paying basically 1usd/root tab....
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Come on man, give Dennis a break - he has to buy in all that expensive Biochar at what, less than a tenner a kilo?:
Soak in some ferts, dry it again, and sprinkle a bit into a gel capsule, which are really expensive at, what, less than 1/3rd pence each:
Gelatin Capsules
Available in multiple sizes and quantities, these Gelatin Capsules are ideal for capping your own supplements!
www.bulk.com
Then bag 20 of them in a fancy foil pouch at, what, 50p a pouch:
Stand-Up Pouches, Doypack Pouch Packaging | Vistaprint UK
Custom stand-up pouches from VistaPrint UK are the best flexible packaging solution to preserve liquids, powder, cosmetics and snacks. Start personalising your doypacks now!
So he's looking at a huge cost base here of, what, heading towards a quid a pack, so you can't blame him for adding a tiny 1900% markup surely?!
18 to be precise.
Still conservative I think. 😂
The crazy price enraged me and pushed me to look for alternatives. I found this and I am looking how I can source it:
Biochar Compound Fertiliser
About This fantastic new product is a Biochar based compound fertiliser. It's composition is based on soil biology requirements, the physical properties of bamboo and some advanced international technology know-how. The major components include Bamboo Biochar, Bamboo Vin...
_Maq_
Member
I wonder whether biochar/charcoal can bring any benefit underwater. It is perhaps (scientific tests are not fully positive) good for field soils. But we don't need it to retain water nor nutrients - they cannot escape in aquarium. What is likely beneficial is adsorption capacity of the substrate. Detritus is a fairly good adsorbent. Clays and zeolites are quite effective sorbents for selected elements, and together with organic matter they work better than any of them alone. Detritus is for free and purified clays and zeolites are cheap. I've been experimenting with charcoal and activated carbon as well, and I cannot recommend them - their particles are much lighter than other soil components and with time they tend to accumulate at the surface of the substrate. Being there, they are extremely attractive to algae.
I don't believe in a 'nutrient-rich' substrate. I believe in adsorption, which is not the same. If your substrate has good adsorption ability, it adsorbs nutrients from water column. That is perhaps beneficial, though my tests were inconclusive.
Another possibly beneficial way is the tabs of the Osmocote kind - slowly releasing nutrients. Possibly. But personally I'd still prefer enhancing adsorption strength of the substrate as a whole and supporting a rich microbial community.
I don't believe in a 'nutrient-rich' substrate. I believe in adsorption, which is not the same. If your substrate has good adsorption ability, it adsorbs nutrients from water column. That is perhaps beneficial, though my tests were inconclusive.
Another possibly beneficial way is the tabs of the Osmocote kind - slowly releasing nutrients. Possibly. But personally I'd still prefer enhancing adsorption strength of the substrate as a whole and supporting a rich microbial community.
Depending how the biochar is processed I think it won't necessarily float or come to the surface. I have no clue whether Dennis product is made from biochar, it could be that it is not at all but I find the color very suspicious. Another possibility that comes to mind is that it's clay based with humic acid, rendering the granules black. But I find the uneven shape of the granules odd.
Not sure what you mean here. As an example Amazonia is a nutrient rich substrate and so are many others. It also has a high CEC, just like akadama has. Only issue is that although they absorbs nutrients from the water column through time (NO3, P and K), NH4 depletes and that's why we need to either dose more or change the substrate, or add root tabs. In a low tech tank it would take many years to observe depletion. In a high tech tank it is just a matter of a few months if it is heavily planted.
This has already been done for many years. Only problem is that osmocote is not designed for a 100% aquatic environment so the content of the granule could very well leach to the water much faster than we think. Other issue is the horrendous colors of those granules. They just end up coming up to the top of the substrate at some point.
Here is an interesting analysis that Tom Barr carried out many years ago on Amazonia soil: https://barrreport.com/barr-report-...Aqua-Soil-Power-Soil-Analysis-Barr-Report.pdf
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_Maq_
Member
Yes, it's full of nutrients. Their excess leaches to water column and many water changes are necessary before things get stabilized. In the end, it keeps just as much nutrients as its adsorption capacity permits.
Therefore I say why not make it the other way round? Make a substrate with high adsorption capacity but without excess nutrients. It will adsorb nutrients from water column.
They definitely don't adsorb nitrates, and I doubt whether they adsorb potassium in a significant amount. Phosphorus ends up in the substrate (and in the filter) even if the substrate is just silica sand.
I don't think so. Adsorption capacity is permanent. That is my point. Basically, you can make given substrate keep nor more neither less nutrients. It adsorbs just as much as it can. Microbes and plant roots are consumers, and fertilization into the water column replenishes the stock.
That's why I say I don't believe in nutrient-rich substrate, only in substrate with high adsorption capacity.
I tend to agree - I've become a bit jaded with the nutrient loaded soils. The nutrient release at the start is just a PITA.
I used a non-nutrient enriched soil designed for shrimp in one of my tanks (Dennerle Shrimp King), and it was so much better - none of the nutrient release issues, and the tank benefitted from the organic acids released from the soil without having to flush them all away to get rid of the unnecessary ammonia release.
plantnoobdude
Member
This is one of the reasons I’m apprehensive to use aqua soil in my next tank. I’m considering kitty litter or akadama soil. Both should be low in nutrients, and have a lot of the same long term effects as aqua soil.
Well it takes me basically ~ 4 days to nitrogen cycle a tank with new rich substrate while using old substrate as a base layer. WC every 2-3 days for a round 2 weeks. At the 5th or 6th day no more ammonia is detectable in the water column. Heavily planted. All good. I never had any problems other than a small onset of diatoms which is barely noticeable.
If you are planning on using Akadama it needs to be pre soaked in a solution of nutrients or you'll have a bad surprise because akamada is basically deprived of any nutrients other than some traces and iron...but the real issue is that akadama also has a very high CEC so it will suck anything it can for a while and you will have lovely swings all over the place for a couple of weeks. Not something you want in a new tank, or at the very least something you want to minimize. If you are not aware of this it will drive you nuts not understanding what is going on.
At the end, it all depends what you are seeking to do, what you are planting and how much of it. If you make a farm tank like I do, to me, a nutrient rich substrate is a must or you'll end up having more problems at the beginning by using inert or poor substrates.
FISHnLAB
Member
Interesting stuff guys👍.
What do you think of NilocG's Thrive Caps?
nilocg.com
What do you think of Tropica's Nutrition Capsules?
tropica.com
What do you think of Aquario Neo's Plant Tab Series?
And, what do you think of CrystalClear Thrive Aquatic Plant Fertilizer Tabs...
What do you think of NilocG's Thrive Caps?
NA Thrive Caps Aquarium Plant Root Tabs - Free Shipping!!!!
New and improved Thrive Caps New and Improved: Thrive Caps are a very similar product to the previous ThriveTabs, with a few improvements. These aquarium root tabs require no additives to make them stick together, a feature that allows them to be smaller and more concentrated while still...
nilocg.com
What do you think of Tropica's Nutrition Capsules?
Tropica Nutrition Capsules - bottom layer fertiliser for planted tanks - Tropica Aquarium Plants
Tropica Nutrition Capsules - root fertiliser for planted tanks. Especially suited for large plants. Improves colours and growth of the plants.
tropica.com
What do you think of Aquario Neo's Plant Tab Series?
And, what do you think of CrystalClear Thrive Aquatic Plant Fertilizer Tabs...
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Its mainly the cost that is an issue.... for a small bottle of 'root tabs', i can get a lifetime supply of osmocote, which I can also use for my garden plants.
Another consideration is that I don't actually know the release pattern for these root tabs, whereas the release pattern for osmocote is available. [exception may be Tropica as it appears to be using osmocote type pellets so it might follow the same release pattern]
Another consideration is that I don't actually know the release pattern for these root tabs, whereas the release pattern for osmocote is available. [exception may be Tropica as it appears to be using osmocote type pellets so it might follow the same release pattern]
Hi all,
I was looking at the NilocG root taps earlier <"NA Thrive Caps Aquarium Plant Root Tabs"> and they <"don't contain an ammonium salt">, while Osmocote does.
That is partially why I like using a dry salt to make a stock solution and then <"serial dilution"> before adding it to the tank, it does away with the need to weigh <"small amounts accurately"> and you know exactly what you have added.
cheers Darrel
That would be my worry, particularly if some of the nitrogen is <"ammonium nitrate"> (NH4NO3).
I was looking at the NilocG root taps earlier <"NA Thrive Caps Aquarium Plant Root Tabs"> and they <"don't contain an ammonium salt">, while Osmocote does.
That is partially why I like using a dry salt to make a stock solution and then <"serial dilution"> before adding it to the tank, it does away with the need to weigh <"small amounts accurately"> and you know exactly what you have added.
cheers Darrel
