Ready To Throw In the Towel

[mark4785]

Here are my aquarium's specifications:
Tank specifications - 120 litres
Lighting - 2 x 24W T5 Hagen fluorescent bulbs (4000 K each). Photoperiod is: 6 hours.
CO2 - Pressurised (Dennerle Comfort Range c02 cylinder).
Filtration - 1x Bluwave 05 internal filter (only 350 LPH), 1x unknown brand internal filter (2000 LPH with UV light), 2x Koralia powerheads (each with 900 LPH flow rate).
Fertilisation routine - EI

Hi,

My name is Mark and I've owned a planted aquarium for around 6 months now. I initially just wanted to run an ordinary aquarium with no live plants but decided that as growing aquatics plants is something I've never tried I should perhaps give it ago.

During the 6 months that I've had the aquarium has a planted aquarium I cannot detail in words how frustrating it has been to maintain it. I initially had brown diatoms growing on the glass and some of my starter plants which eventually completely covered their leaves and I just ended up throwing them away. Once I had got passed the diatom stage (which I'm told is caused by microscopic ammonia traces) I began having issues with cyanobacteria growing on all surfaces in the aquarium. In total, I did 3x 5 day black outs to get rid of it and finally established that low nitrate and/or low circulation was it's cause which prompted me to purchase the 2000 LPH internal filter and 2x Koralia powerheads.

Soon after installing the above appliances in conjunction with starting EI-dosing (as opposed to relying on Easycarbo fertilisers) the cyanobacteria never returned. However, a multitude of algaes have now took its place, namely green hair algae (it's growing really quickly), green-spot algae, green-dust algae and black beard algae.

I've been told that:-
1. black beard algae is caused by low c02
2. green hair algae is caused by excess nutrients (no idea what this means as EI dosing is based on providing an excess).
3. green-dust algae is caused by low c02.
4. green-spot algae is caused by low phosphate.

In response to the above causes of algae, I increased by c02 injection by making 3 bubbles a second pass through the bubble-counter and ensured that as a part of my EI dosing regime, 8 ppm of nitrate and 2 ppm of phosphate enters the aquarium on the days in which I dose macro-nutrients. Here is my exact daily EI dosing regime:

Monday - Conduct 50% W/C at end of the day and add 10ml of Potassium Nitrate (effectively adds 8ppm) and 10ml of Monopotassium Phosphate (effectively adds 2ppm).
Tuesday - Add 5-6ml of EDTA chelate trace solution (2.5ml per 50 litres is what should be applied according to Untitled Document)
Wednesday - Add the Monopotassium Phosphate and Potassium Nitrate again.
Thursday - Conduct 20-30% W/C and syphon surface of substrate. Add EDTA chelate trace solution.
Friday - Add the Monopotassium Phosphate and Potassium Nitrate again.
Saturday - Add EDTA chelate TPN trace solution. Conduct 20-30% W/C and syphon surface of substrate.
Sunday - Rest day.
Note: I'm also spot-dosing 2-3ml of Easycarbo every day to get rid of algae. Kinda fighting a losing battle though since I'm not tackling the route cause of it.

Despite employing the above regime, which involves a lot of effort for someone with type 1 diabetes, I'm not getting the results that I want. I'm experiencing a lot of frustration due to not knowing the solution to stopping these algaes from growing and would therefore appreciate any help.

A few members of a different planted tank community have suggested my plant density is too low in a such way that my aquarium can't be actually called a 'planted aquarium'. Below I have provided some pictures and a link to a Youtube video to show my plant density.

Video URL:




Various Pictures:

There aren't really that many plants because I was told (by a member of another planted aquarium website) to not clump plants together otherwise it will create deadspots which in turn will cause algae outbreaks, at the same time he remarked that I should plant up which would inevitably have a clumping effect.

That isn't the only contradictory advice I've received. I just want an answer to the problems I'm faced with because it wouldn't be a joke if I said I'm close to having a nervous break down.

Mark.

 

[Garuf]

More plants would be my suggestion, loads more. Almost everything is in line, a good cleaning regime too will help, wiping the glass weekly etc.
The groundworks there it's just building upon it.

 

[mark4785]

More plants would be my suggestion, loads more. Almost everything is in line, a good cleaning regime too will help, wiping the glass weekly etc.
The groundworks there it's just building upon it.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Could my algae issues be solely down to lack of plants? Or in other words, would putting NPK into an aquarium with no plants equal a very bad algae outbreak.

 

[nayr88]

Hey Mark, welcome....have a brew and chill 🙂

Joining this forum is a step in the right direction.

As Garuf said more plant mass would help a lot, along with tighter maintenance.

The EI schedule isn't a strong point of mine to say the least but from reading journals most will do a single 50% water change at the end of the week, and your dosing maybe abit upset by the midweek change? but somone with more ei knowledge will most likely shoot me down on that (and right fully so if I'm talking shite) haha.

Alsooooo is the UV filter really needed, not herd of anyone else here using them. So don't know if that directly causing a problem but could be adding to it.

clean clean clean !!! Haha main advice, get stuck into the forum checking out the journals espcially, not just for inspiration but also to see what other regime and maintenance others have taken to there tanks, also yourll read about problems they encountered and how they over come them, in general just a good place to get a lot of knowledge. People here are more than willing to talk about there experiences and stuff with there tanks so just ask 🙂

Good luck mate, your on the right track 😀

 

[nayr88]

Also having co2 and lights set on a timer will help a ton

Lights come on at 9am off at 5pm (8hour light period)
Co2 comes on at 7am and shuts off at 3pm....

I wouldn't attempt a 8hour lighting period untill more densly planted.

Having the co2 staggered to come on before the lights gives enough time for the water to become co2 enriched ready for lights on. Your looking for you drop checker to be lime green by lights on.

 

[bigmatt]

We've all been there mate! As nayr88 says check out the journals and you'll see that EVERYONE gets algae probs at some point!
I'm no expert (hopefully one of the cleverer people will pick this up) but his would be my stepwise management plan to sort out the probs
1) Sit down, have a brew/beer (depending on mood/time of day)
2) Strip out the kit from your tank and give everyhting a good clean - glass, equipment and cutting dead/dying leaves off affected plants (remember to clean filter media in old tank water to saev the bacteria!)
3)You've got a ton of flow - it must be like a washing machine in there! The problem with having so much flow from so many sources is that you can easy create turbulent or chaotic flow patterns, which contribute to dead spots and the accumulation of ammonia with subsequent algae blooms. I'd remove the smaller internal, and put the larger filter and one (or both) or the Koralias on the back glass at the top of the tanks, and have them blowing the flow across the top of the tank , and then down the front glass. Ceg4048 (who's a bit good at this) attributes most algae problems to flow/distribution issues. If you fancy spending some money go for a large external filter with spraybar - it's easier to get a consistent flow pattern but you should be able to do loads wiotht he kit you already have, so this isn't an essential
3) Get hold of plenty of fast growing stems - Elodea (sometimes found in pond sections) is a favourite choice as it grows like a weed, but hydrocotyle or some of the rotala species would be handy as well. Plant plenty of these as the fast growing stems will outcompete the algae for nutrients. My major realisation in the algae war was to undertsand that algae are basically very simple plants - if you grow algae, you can grow plants! the way i think about it, because plants are a bit more complex they outcompete the algae for nutrients, but you need to have adequate plant mass to do this. Ensure your planting doesn't mess with your flow pattern (eg the stems don't grow up in front of the koralias)
4)Look at your CO2 - how are you diffusing it into your tank? Again, ensure your CO2 distribution is even and consistent across your tank - this'll stop the BBA from recurring. The best way of getting rid of the BBA you already have is spot dosing with Liquid carbon (LC) - cut off the worst affected leaves, then with your filter off apply a 1:10 solution of LC to the BBA, leave for 5 mins then restart your filter. You should see the BBA turn pinky/purple immediately as it dies. Be sure not to overdose LC - it's dangerous stuff, just do a bit every day with your daily dose.

I'm sure others will correct me or point out stuff i've missed, but the beauty of this forum is the accumulation of experience and knowledge.
Good luck mate - in case of frustration always reset to step one! We're British dammit - there's no problem that can't be solved with tea!
Matt

 

[spyder]

You seem to have invested a considerable sum in equipment then tightened up the budget on the plants. More plants as already suggested is the way forward. In a similar post I saw 1 member say "your effectively growing algae".

If it was me I would go scrape/clean everything up then go with a good 60% WC removing the algae in the process then plant it up. Again, already mentioned but get plenty of bunches of stems. They grow quickly given the right conditions and will help keep your water parameters in check.

Good luck with it and I hope you nail it. Keep us posted.

 

[JenCliBee]

I'm not sure why everybody is saying buy more plants?... this is a genuine question by the way lol.

Many start there tanks off to watch it grow out... yet you are all telling him to basically stock his tank?.

I'm a little confused to why everybody is suggesting this when there are loads of members that have used very little or very young plants/lets and also used the EI method and had nothing like these problems... yes other aspects have probably been covered..ie co2, distribution etc etc.

I know this isn't my thread but im sure the OP would like to know the reasons why you are all suggesting stocking his tank with a higher plant mass as much as i would like to know when as i said there are many that use even less plants to watch a tank fill and grow out.

Sorry if im missing something here :?

 

[mark4785]

I'm a little confused to why everybody is suggesting this when there are loads of members that have used very little or very young plants/lets and also used the EI method and had nothing like these problems... yes other aspects have probably been covered..ie co2, distribution etc etc.

Your reply is just the reply I was looking for. This is not to say everyone else's input is less important, but JenClibee's reply has struck a cord so to speak.

I'm VERY very reluctant to purchase more plants just to have them infested with algae; its better to have a smaller amount of plants become infected with algae than a larger amount. I've tried so many things now that I'm actually starting to lose my patience and my health and sleep is getting impacted on to some degree.

With regards to lighting, the photoperiod is 6 hours, so I can't say thats causing the algae.
As for c02, the drop-checker always indicates a light green at lights on (it's timed to come on 2 hours prior to the lights coming on).
As for the cleaning, I clean the appliances and glass less often because all the cleaning does is re-distribute the algae somewhere else.
In response to Nayr88 who mentioned the bi-weekly W/C contributing to upset of the EI dosing: I'm not sure what kind of impact this has but I was told by a member of fishforums.net that an extra 20% W/C or 2 would not effect things too much.

If I was to hazard a guess as to what is causing the algae it would be:

1. The small amount of light coming through the blinds at sunrise before the c02 is at a optimum level
2. Mulm and detritus during filter maintenace: when I put my filter media in my Cayman 05 internal filter (the useless one with a 350 LPH flow rate) back into it's slot in the filter, it pushes any left over detritus/mulm back into the water column. The effect of this is that the aquarium is probably dirtier than it was before I even started cleaning the filters. The same happens with the other internal; while it's switched off, if you move it as little as 2cm, all the detritus it's sucked into it's grills will go back into the water column.
3. Small plant mass may be contributing. I'm sure a larger plant mass wouldn't fair much better given the 2 problems outlined above.

Here is a video of the aquarium before I was adviced by an external website to not bunch my Limnophila sessiflora and Bacopa together. There is less algae present, so maybe I should go back to planting the way in which I chose to plant things?

If you fancy spending some money go for a large external filter with spraybar - it's easier to get a consistent flow pattern but you should be able to do loads wiotht he kit you already have, so this isn't an essential

What external would you suggest I use Bigmatt?

My aquarium isn't an open-top aquarium so getting an external filter with spraybar installed will probably involve removing the hood, right?

 

[bigmatt]

Putting more plants in the aquarium helps because the plants out-compete the algae for nutrients. In your system at present you are providing maximum nutrients with few plants to use them. This means that any algae bloom (once triggered) has a massive amount of "food" to develop and grow. I specifically suggested Elodea because it's cheap as chips and grows like a weed, so you should (hopefully!) see improvement without a massive financial outlay You can even cut the stems in half or thirds before planting to further enhance the growth and maximise your investment. Sounds like your filter mulm may be contributing as well. In terms of cleaning scrub everything THEN do a water change - so the contaminated water is removed with the water change.
Remember it's not an exact science - spend a bit of time looking through the journals (start to finsih - don't just look at the end pages)for the "plenty" who don't have algae problems there are plenty, plenty more who suffer massive algae issues at some point, including the "great and the good"!
FINALLY...do not lose sleep - it's only a fish tank! I understand your frustrations but it is only a fish tank...
And if all else fails, make a brew!
Hope this helps
Matt

 

[ceg4048]

...Putting more plants in the aquarium helps because the plants out-compete the algae for nutrients. ...

Hi, this is absolutely NOT why adding more plants help. For the umpteenth time, Plants cannot compete with algae...Ever. For the umpteenth time algae do not care about the level of nutrients in the tank.

Light causes algae. A lot of light causes a lot of algae.

In order to help recover the tank to full health, the OP is advised to disable 50% of the bulbs if possible for now.

As indicated earlier by Matt, although the OP appears to have sufficient flow rating, a review of the photograph provided reveals that the pumps are not working together. The flow appears to be incoherent. It is not a good idea to point the pump effluents in opposite direction. A general rule of thumb is to have all pumps pointing in the same direction.

An injection rate increase might also be called for as most of the algal forms mentioned are CO2 related. Is the dropchecker filled with 4dKH distilled water? Is the dropchecker lime green by the time the lights are on?

This is where to start, reduce light intensity, attempt to achieve uniform flow so that all the plants are gently moving and then look to improve injection rate. If possible perform 2X or even 3X per week 50% water changes to remove as many spores as possible until the crisis is over, then resume 1X per week 50% changes.

Cheers,

 

[bigmatt]

And as if by magic..Clive appeared!
I thought i might be wrong on something...😀
Matt

 

[Gfish]

And please don't tell us Type 1 diabetes makes this tough for you. That gives others the totally wrong impression of diabetic folk. And before you react, I know what I'm talking about on this ok.

Sorry about that, it just niggled me.
Clive and others have given you great advice, but one other thing to do to help is buy the right creatures to inhabit that will help the tank keep clean on it's own.
Chuck in load of shrimps, otocinclus and Ancistrus and the manual cleaning job will be made so much easier for you.

I agree with the point one poster made, don't add loads of plants until the problem has been addressed and rectified. Otherwise you'll have more plants to cut damaged leaves from and dose liquid carbon to. Not to mention the waste of your hard earned cash.

Once the issues of flow and distribution are addressed then come back to the plant purchasing.

Cheers

Gavin

 

[nayr88]

Some really good advice here, glad to see everyone getting involved, we have all been here and know how freaking annoying it is.

If I'd come to this forum 1st I think I'd of saved a whole lot of scrilla..

To summerise

Move filters so flow is uniform, high up facing the front pane usually works for me.
Less light for now
Increase co2 slightly
Do a massive clean. THEN water change. 2-3x50% weekly.

Once in check

More plant mass.....choose plants carefully (flast growing low light aquatic sepcies) if yuour not sure ask 🙂 and as for the spend why not have a look around get your post count up to around 30 and look at the 'for sale' thread there some big bargains to be had from 2nd hand filters to plants so keep an eye on it, I for one would be willing to send you some floating plants (amazon frogbit) a lot of people use it in the innitial grow in it looks amazing in a jungle style tank too.

A clean up crew 🙂 amano shrimp can cost around 3quid each but there hardcore algae munchers, ottocinclus (spelling?) Also good for munching algae.

Weekly water changes instead of doing 2 or 3.

A fluval 305 wouldn't be a bad choise for this tank with 1100lph flow grab a spray bar too and yourll be 'loling' all over the place haha 🙂, you may be about to modify your tanks hood to take the filter in and out, are you a diy kinda guy? It would be more then cutting 2 slots.

Matt I'm loving the 'make a brew' advice, exactly what I do when I'm abit stressed....than again a brew and having a looking into your tank when all is when is very satisfying ....haha

 

[mark4785]

And please don't tell us Type 1 diabetes makes this tough for you. That gives others the totally wrong impression of diabetic folk. And before you react, I know what I'm talking about on this ok.

I suggest you don't discuss type 1 diabetes with me as in what you've just said, you've made me feel very angry I'm afraid. When I tell somebody something which has a factual basis I don't expect people to come to me and state that it is fictional, so please don't go there in future Gfish as what you just said hurt.

In order to help recover the tank to full health, the OP is advised to disable 50% of the bulbs if possible for now.

Hi Cleg or Clive,

I can't do that since taking one bulb out disables the other.

As indicated earlier by Matt, although the OP appears to have sufficient flow rating, a review of the photograph provided reveals that the pumps are not working together. The flow appears to be incoherent. It is not a good idea to point the pump effluents in opposite direction. A general rule of thumb is to have all pumps pointing in the same direction.

Thank you for that, I had no idea that something like this could cause problems. I currently have one powerhead and the slow internal on the right pane of glass which have outlets shifting water to the left of the tank. I've now turned the powerhead on the left pane off to stop it shoving water in the opposite direction. As for the 2000 LPH internal, I guess I'll point it's outlet nozzle towards the front of the tank.

An injection rate increase might also be called for as most of the algal forms mentioned are CO2 related. Is the dropchecker filled with 4dKH distilled water? Is the dropchecker lime green by the time the lights are on?

Yes.

A fluval 305 wouldn't be a bad choise for this tank with 1100lph flow grab a spray bar too and yourll be 'loling' all over the place haha 🙂, you may be about to modify your tanks hood to take the filter in and out, are you a diy kinda guy? It would be more then cutting 2 slots.

Nayer, I'm not into DIY at all and don't know where to start with doing such modifications. One thing I thought i'd mention is that my lights, heater and internal filter (350 LPH one) are all wired to the same plug which means the task of swapping to an external would only be possible once I've ideally removed the internal from it's "electrical bond"..

 

[bigmatt]

...then have a brew...😀
Listen to ceg4048 - he's a real algae guru and helped me no end in sortingout a massive BGA outbreak.
nayr88 has summarised things nicely
Time for a brew...
Matt

 

[nayr88]

Quick one on the filter, if you could a fluval 405 would be really good with spray bar, depends on your budget mate. Again there's other sections of the forum for particular questions like what filter to fit a specific budget ect.

 

[nayr88]

To re summerise...


GET A BREW INSIDE YOU!!!!! Haha

Then re read haha.

 

[mark4785]

Quick one on the filter, if you could a fluval 405 would be really good with spray bar, depends on your budget mate. Again there's other sections of the forum for particular questions like what filter to fit a specific budget ect.

Budget is not a problem at all. Would I be able to get the necessary things attached to the Fluval through my aquarium hood safely? I don't wany loose pipes sticking out of the aquarium lol.

 

[a1Matt]

In order to help recover the tank to full health, the OP is advised to disable 50% of the bulbs if possible for now.

Hi Cleg or Clive,

I can't do that since taking one bulb out disables the other.

Try reducing the light by another method. For example move the light source higher, or put something slightly opaque over the light (try not to set anything on fire doing this though )