Re-education.....

[Ady34]

I’m in awe at this tank!
Love everything about it, keep it up!

Cheers HafMan.

Finally got round to doing a full read through of the thread... I’m even more inspired to make changes to my own tank to emulate your use of slow predominantly slow growing plants, simple and substrate etc...

Did you plant the crypts in the sand in the end?

Can you advise how you’ve attached the Ludwigia? I’d like to emulate this approach in my own tank (if I can find some again in the shops 😡 after I stupidly got rid of mine). I struggle with Java fern up top both collecting detritus from food getting blown into it by the filter and getting algae in the high light up top when the plants at the base need it this high... (sorry you did ask me before Xmas what I meant about thit... here is the explanation at last!!)

Hi, yes the crypts were planted directly in the sand without any added substrate fertilisers.
The ludwigia is simply anchored within the bolbitis. I just remove it periodically when it gets too long, trim a few inches off the bottom and ‘stuff’ them back in.
I use relitively low light and with the easy plants they don’t need a lot at the lower regions. Some of the bucephalandra at the right hand side is nearly permanently shaded. With regards the java fern, maybe just try agitating the leaves regularly with your hand to dislodge any detrius to help.

Ive noticed a build up of bba within the tank now, on the wood and the edges of the slow growing plants. This along with the hair algae indicates I’m not looking after the tank as I should. I have let attention to co2 slip recently too and made an error last weekend whereby I went away for the weekend and left my lights on manual mode. Before I left I wanted to feed the fish so popped the lights on, fed the fish and forgot to switch back to timer......the lights were on 24/7 for the weekend which won’t have been good for anything. The co2 ran out the weekend before and it was a few days I think before I noticed this, so the two incidents have likely been accelerators to the rapid appearance of the bba. The co2 has been left sub optimal for a long time to be honest but the tank was plodding along relitively trouble free until the two weekends just discussed. I’m pretty sure with a good period of consistent maintenance and readdressing optimum co2 it will halt the demise......just need to put the effort in 😀
Cheerio,
Ady.

 

[Ady34]

Ludwigia from above.....



and below....



and an image of the emergent wood showing the level of decomposition in the water as opposed to above.....



cheerio
Ady.

 

[Wookii]

Ludwigia from above.....

View attachment 131543

and below....

View attachment 131544

and an image of the emergent wood showing the level of decomposition in the water as opposed to above.....

View attachment 131545

cheerio
Ady.

Wow - is that deterioration in the wood normal? I've not used the Talawa wood that you have before, but I don't think any of the wood I have (mainly Mopani type) has eroded like that.

 

[Andrew Butler]

and an image of the emergent wood showing the level of decomposition in the water as opposed to above.....

This is a big reason why I'm not so keen on wood for a long term aquascape plan. It depends on the type of wood also, I know.

It's looking good though, a viewing pleasure which is what I think it's about for me.
When are you coming round to help with mine?!? 😉

 

[Ady34]

Wow - is that deterioration in the wood normal? I've not used the Talawa wood that you have before, but I don't think any of the wood I have (mainly Mopani type) has eroded like that.

I think it is quite normal. The tank is over a year old and previous wood such as manzanita and redmoor root I’ve used has deteriorated similarly.

This is a big reason why I'm not so keen on wood for a long term aquascape plan. It depends on the type of wood also, I know.

It's looking good though, a viewing pleasure which is what I think it's about for me.
When are you coming round to help with mine?!? 😉

Yeah, I just like a scape to look like an aquarium and to be able to enjoy it. Different people find pleasure in many facets of the hobby but for me slow and steady with longevity suits, especially in a tank this size.

Thanks for the comments.
Cheerio,
Ady.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

This is a big reason why I'm not so keen on wood for a long term aquascape plan. It depends on the type of wood also.

Some wood lasts really well, real bog wood (either pine or oak), Mopani, Douglas Fir (Pseudotsuga) are all good ones.

The longest lasting one I’ve found is Oak heart wood.

Cheers Darrel

 

[Andrew T]

Just because I like wood cuz of my trade, I thought maybe, just maybe it’s possible that we could find some Lignum vitae (guayacan, pockholtz) branches somewhere out there.
Looks like it’s the hardest wood out there....3 times harder than red oak . Not many big trees out there anymore but plenty of small ones.
And the branches look appealing for a nature aquarium...

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Just because I like wood cuz of my trade, I thought maybe, just maybe it’s possible that we could find some Lignum vitae (guayacan, pockholtz) branches somewhere out there.
Looks like it’s the hardest wood out there....3 times harder than red oak . Not many big trees out there anymore but plenty of small ones.
And the branches look appealing for a nature aquarium...

It is covered by <“CITES”> and is on the IUCN red list, so I think it is pretty unlikely you could obtain any legally, and there would certainly be ethical issues even if you could.

Cheers Darrel

 

[Ady34]

Hi,
the bba in this tank is becoming a significant issue. My maintenance for a long while now has not been on point, neither has my attention to co2. Ive let this slip and I have known this for a long time without correction and now it’s biting me. The wood is decomposing at a rate now with crumbling of the thinner branches, this and the bark on the wood will not help the issue. Fish load is increasing rapidly also with the bristlenose plec population booming. This poses two problems, feeding them and the resultant waste adding to organics and bio load. Tonight I counted 30 plecs easily during feeding time......this needs addressing as does my input into the tank.....you only get out what you put in.
With all these factors at play I’m surprised it has taken so long to destruct, the relitively low lighting and easy plants have been the only saviours.
Tonight I have deep cleaned one of my filters, tomorrow the other will be done. I have trimmed the worst effected leaves and began picking bba from the wood. I will attempt to get some photos tomorrow as close up the tank is not in a good way. I also need to replace some of the sand substrate as it has become ‘stained’ due to age.
I am hoping to address many of the issues, however only time will tell the effect of the wood on the algae. This weekend I will try to rehome a batch of bristlenose to reduce the amount of bottom food I need to add and the resultant bio load.
I am considering an additional filter too to increase distribution throughout the tank, especially important with the increased plant mass now in the tank.

Anyway, I’ll get on top of the things I can for now and see where this goes.......

cheerio
Ady.

 

[Kezzab]

Good luck. It's a bloody slog sometimes isn't it!

 

[Wookii]

Hi,
the bba in this tank is becoming a significant issue. My maintenance for a long while now has not been on point, neither has my attention to co2. Ive let this slip and I have known this for a long time without correction and now it’s biting me. The wood is decomposing at a rate now with crumbling of the thinner branches, this and the bark on the wood will not help the issue. Fish load is increasing rapidly also with the bristlenose plec population booming. This poses two problems, feeding them and the resultant waste adding to organics and bio load. Tonight I counted 30 plecs easily during feeding time......this needs addressing as does my input into the tank.....you only get out what you put in.
With all these factors at play I’m surprised it has taken so long to destruct, the relitively low lighting and easy plants have been the only saviours.
Tonight I have deep cleaned one of my filters, tomorrow the other will be done. I have trimmed the worst effected leaves and began picking bba from the wood. I will attempt to get some photos tomorrow as close up the tank is not in a good way. I also need to replace some of the sand substrate as it has become ‘stained’ due to age.
I am hoping to address many of the issues, however only time will tell the effect of the wood on the algae. This weekend I will try to rehome a batch of bristlenose to reduce the amount of bottom food I need to add and the resultant bio load.
I am considering an additional filter too to increase distribution throughout the tank, especially important with the increased plant mass now in the tank.

Anyway, I’ll get on top of the things I can for now and see where this goes.......

cheerio
Ady.

It's difficult to keep on top of things sometimes isn't it. Like many hobbies, interest levels fluctuate as time goes on. I knew this of myself, from when I had tanks in the past, so on my recent tank I made sure I automated almost everything I possibly could.

As you have quiet a few larger species, you could replace some of the fish with some true Siamese Algae Eaters, they could hopefully help keep on top of algae. Likewise you could add some Amano's assuming you're larger fish won't pick them off. I found spot dosing BBA with Excel and a syringe worked a treat, and the shrimp scoffed it once it started to discolour.

There are probably a few things you could do to make life easier going forward. Reducing your bio-load a little might help. You could also automate your water changes if you felt inclined - especially as you're 90% of the way there with your HMA filter and waste pipe in situ - that way you could increase water change frequency also to match your bio-load without any increase on your time - that would definitely help with BBA as I think that thrives when the dissolved organics in the water column increase. I had the same issue in my new tank with BBA, and the TDS had increased, so I just doubled the automated water changes, spot treated with Excel. and 'touch wood' it has gone for the most part.

Like I've said before, the wood disintegrating is a new one to me - I wouldn't be too happy with that, especially given how much the stuff costs. The wood I'm using in my current tank, was in another tank 16 years ago for about 3 years - it hasn't changed at all in that period.

 

[Ady34]

Good luck. It's a bloody slog sometimes isn't it!

Ha, thanks, I know why it’s happened and it’s down to me......

It's difficult to keep on top of things sometimes isn't it. Like many hobbies, interest levels fluctuate as time goes on. I knew this of myself, from when I had tanks in the past, so on my recent tank I made sure I automated almost everything I possibly could.

As you have quiet a few larger species, you could replace some of the fish with some true Siamese Algae Eaters, they could hopefully help keep on top of algae. Likewise you could add some Amano's assuming you're larger fish won't pick them off. I found spot dosing BBA with Excel and a syringe worked a treat, and the shrimp scoffed it once it started to discolour.

There are probably a few things you could do to make life easier going forward. Reducing your bio-load a little might help. You could also automate your water changes if you felt inclined - especially as you're 90% of the way there with your HMA filter and waste pipe in situ - that way you could increase water change frequency also to match your bio-load without any increase on your time - that would definitely help with BBA as I think that thrives when the dissolved organics in the water column increase. I had the same issue in my new tank with BBA, and the TDS had increased, so I just doubled the automated water changes, spot treated with Excel. and 'touch wood' it has gone for the most part.

Like I've said before, the wood disintegrating is a new one to me - I wouldn't be too happy with that, especially given how much the stuff costs. The wood I'm using in my current tank, was in another tank 16 years ago for about 3 years - it hasn't changed at all in that period.

Yeah, auto water changes would be a good addition as at least it would consistently get fresh water. I have just been particularly lazy with this tank though, eating ice cream and watching golf seems to have taken over, no excuses
The bristlenose were a bad choice in retrospect and the Congo tetras are stunning fish, however they really do impact the shrimp population which is something I know hasn’t helped the mosses in particular. I have a relitively heavy fish load as it is as I just like fish, but I do need to reduce it by rehoming some bristlenoses.
I may get some excel and spot dose the wood at water change, however I will try to just be better at looking after the tank generally. Filter cleaning is a big vice also, I need to open them up more regularly for cleans.

Anyway, crazy as it is being as how I can’t look after this tank properly, I have the itch for an additional ADA 30c system which would offer greater and more regular rescaping possibilities due to its small size and smaller financial impact .......I just want one, it’s shiny 😎

cheerio,

 

[Wookii]

.......I just want one, it’s shiny 😎

Man after my own heart!

 

[Ady34]

To be honest this tank has never been immaculate with incredible plant health, but now it is looking particularly poor.
As promised, bba......











filter was filthy.....





Second filter, pipes and glassware was cleaned
last night. The fissidens was cut back hard too. Hoping to replace some substrate this weekend, chop some more of the worst effected leaves and rehome some bristlenoses. A fresh batch of bristlenose eggs has been laid in the spawning rock, but I’m too soft to just destroy the eggs, I don’t know much about fish phsycology but if they were mine I’d be pretty upset if they were destroyed 🙁

Im tempted to run a course of excel treatment also but am more than a little worried about messing, as with the amount of buces in there now if they melted for some reason that would be tank over 😱

Cheerio,

 

[Andrew Butler]

filter was filthy.....

Blimey; I've never pulled one out that bad
It shows your filter is keeping some of the waste at least 😵
As a suggestion maybe an easy option is to simply pull the pre-filter every couple of days and rinse it through quickly - you know these filters the same as I do and simply spraying a hose from the outside is about the easiest way to clean them.
One thing I found out as someone told me was putting a piece of course foam in the pre-filter helped the pre-filter work better which was true but I never really had a problem without it if I kept on top of them but you've got quite a load so might be worth a thought but just keep an eye on the flow and don't have it all the way to the top.

The wood is one thing I was quite surprised at when I saw the above/below waterline the other week and put me off wood even more on my planned longer term setup.

 

[Wookii]

Im tempted to run a course of excel treatment also but am more than a little worried about messing, as with the amount of buces in there now if they melted for some reason that would be tank over 😱

Cheerio,

Don’t worry the Buces should be fine - I’ve been spot dosing mine without issue - if you’re worried dilute it a little, and stick to your target overall tank dose (be that x1 or x2 dose etc).

Just make sure you spot dose with a small (1ml is good) syringe, a thick needle helps with accuracy too: Amazon

I’ve found BBA reacts very well too it - one or two doses and the shrimp start munching it away - a day later and it’s gone. Stag horn I’ve found is a little tougher and needs 2-4 spot doses before it gets eaten.

 

[Andrew Butler]

Just make sure you spot dose with a small (1ml is good) syringe, a thick needle helps with accuracy too

I've got a TMC Reef Coral Feeder 542mm on the shopping list next time I place an order - there are other versions but looks promising for reaching places easily without getting your arms in.
@Wookii - the Amazon link isn't working.

 

[Wookii]

I've got a TMC Reef Coral Feeder 542mm on the shopping list next time I place an order - there are other versions but looks promising for reaching places easily without getting your arms in.
@Wookii - the Amazon link isn't working.

Sorry, let’s try again:

1ml Syringe & 14G Blunt Needle (5 Pack) for DIY Mixing (1ml Syringe) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00SFS3ZHO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_0lMyEbZXNQ7Z9

 

[Andrew Butler]

Sorry, let’s try again:

1ml Syringe & 14G Blunt Needle (5 Pack) for DIY Mixing (1ml Syringe) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00SFS3ZHO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_0lMyEbZXNQ7Z9

Working

 

[Ady34]

Blimey; I've never pulled one out that bad
It shows your filter is keeping some of the waste at least 😵
As a suggestion maybe an easy option is to simply pull the pre-filter every couple of days and rinse it through quickly - you know these filters the same as I do and simply spraying a hose from the outside is about the easiest way to clean them.
One thing I found out as someone told me was putting a piece of course foam in the pre-filter helped the pre-filter work better which was true but I never really had a problem without it if I kept on top of them but you've got quite a load so might be worth a thought but just keep an eye on the flow and don't have it all the way to the top.

The wood is one thing I was quite surprised at when I saw the above/below waterline the other week and put me off wood even more on my planned longer term setup.

Yeah, I let it go far too long. I used to clean the pre filter twice weekly, I got lazy and the fish load and plant load increased which has lead to my problems. I’m going to do twice weekly pre filter rinses as you said, it’s easy enough with a hose from the outside which is exactly how I do it.
In one of my old tanks I used to add filter floss in the centre of the pre filter, it would clog fast in this tank but I guess that would encourage better filter maintenance.
Tbh the wood isn’t anything I wouldn’t expect, I’ve had wood in the past disintegrate but it is a bit tough after you’ve invested in hardscape materials for them to disappear I front of you 😱........better this way than in my discus tank where the royal plec ate my investment in front of me

Don’t worry the Buces should be fine - I’ve been spot dosing mine without issue - if you’re worried dilute it a little, and stick to your target overall tank dose (be that x1 or x2 dose etc).

Just make sure you spot dose with a small (1ml is good) syringe, a thick needle helps with accuracy too: Amazon

I’ve found BBA reacts very well too it - one or two doses and the shrimp start munching it away - a day later and it’s gone. Stag horn I’ve found is a little tougher and needs 2-4 spot doses before it gets eaten.

Thanks for the tips, I’ve started a treatment with flourish excel, double stated dose. I’ll see how this fares before spot dosing but I’ve read elsewhere on the forum about crypts in particular not liking the addition......I’m prepared for the balansae to melt but it will be sad as it’s just starting to take hold now.

Anyway, managed to do a bit more revival today starting with catching out as many bristlenoses as I could before they got wise to what I was doing. I managed about 20 I think, but not the big male who stuck himself right into his hole with the eggs he’s tending. There are still a lot left but it’s a start, I’ll try again next weekend.



Took this batch to my local store.

Then it was out with the old sand which was heavily discoloured and stained, I simply siphoned it out to minimise disturbing it.











Big water change to boot......



cleaned some old sand to add back in......



......and done.....simply scooped the cleaned sand into a small pot and submerged it close to the bottom of the tank and poured it in......



Substrate looking crisp again......






Fish keeping off the bottom whilst I was swapping it out...




Anyway, looking a lot better again, and excel treatment underway. Hopefully I’ll be able to rid the bba (and the hair algae) without too many plant casualties. I need to trim the ludwigia again and clean the pre filters regularly. Few really bad leaves to remove also but getting there 😀
Lights currently set at a maximum intensity of 45% for the left side where there is no shade, and 50% for the right where there is more plant mass to shade the lower part of the tank.
Added the drop checker back in too so I can try and dial the co2 in better again.

Oh, still considering the ADA 30c 😎 Never been much of a fanboy, but would be nice to own a full set up, and now with a dedicated aquascaping store literally on my doorstep it’s hard to resist.......

Cheerio, and thanks for the tips.