Possible BBA and a host of questions

[rebel]

Is the SiO2 particularly soluble in water?

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @rebel

Is the SiO2 particularly soluble in water?

The following is a company that knows a thing or two about water. Their web site is a great resource for all manner of water-related information. Here goes:

https://www.lenntech.com/periodic/water/silicon/silicon-and-water.htm

And, here's a good place to start:

"Rivers generally contain 4 ppm silicon. Silicon is usually not ionized when dissolved; it is present as ortho silicic acid (H4SiO4 or Si(OH)4). These compounds are the result of slow dissolution of silica in water. Rivers transport large amounts of silicon to sea. Most likely, less than 20% of dissolved silicon is removed from rivers by means of biological or chemical transformation processes".

Hope this helps.

JPC

 

[Marcus_F]

Hi,

So update, the plants are growing it seems, getting more and more crowded which is nice. Although I'm seeing that each water change I'm having to remove one or two yellow leaves from my Cryptocoryne Becketti 'Petchii' can't think I've seen that on such a regular basis. Will post up some photo's shortly.

The brown algae persists and I'm managing the BBA.

Tested my tap water for SiO2 and it's off the scale as is the tank so it does appear to be from the water and even a 50/50 tap and RO isn't enough to reduce it. The substrate I have Caribsea Eco Complete.

 

[Marcus_F]

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @Marcus_F

Tested my tap water for SiO2 and it's off the scale as is the tank so it does appear to be from the water and even a 50/50 tap and RO isn't enough to reduce it.

OK, that's pretty conclusive, isn't it? But, never having found myself in this situation, I'm unsure of your best course of action. As always, opinions on the internet are divided. And, it's not easy to get to the facts that matter. If you're already using RO water, have you ever considered switching to remineralized RO water thus eliminating tap water completely?

JPC

 

[Marcus_F]

I haven’t purely based on having that amount of RO water always around the house to complete changes. At 50% it’s already a trip every 3 weeks and a boot full of water containers 4 x 25litres.
I’ve ordered the JBL silicate remover, see what happens when I add that to my filter.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

JBL silicate remover

If it is the one that contains an <"iron compound">? It will remove the orthophosphate (PO4---) ions from the water column as well. Whether that effects plant growth will depend on what happens in the substrate, silicon isn't essential for plant growth, but phosphorus is a macro-nutrient.

Could you try Hornwort (Ceratophyllum demersum) in the tank? It has a silicified "skeleton". I don't tend to get Diatoms, and I have Hornwort in my tanks (and Ramshorn snails) but whether they make the difference I really don't know. Diatoms are pretty much universal where ever there is liquid water and light (including on moss, on glaciers, in the soil etc.)

cheers Darrel

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @dw1305

Could you try Hornwort (Ceratophyllum demersum) in the tank? It has a silicified "skeleton".

So, does that mean that Hornwort can absorb orthosilicic acid to construct its skeleton? If so, that would be a great way of combatting diatoms.

JPC

 

[Marcus_F]

If it absorbs PO4 can I not just up my dosing or does it remove instantly?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

If it absorbs PO4 can I not just up my dosing or does it remove instantly?

I don't actually know. I've come upon phosphate stripping with iron III chloride as part of my day job.

The active ingredients are iron hydroxides, and they are used in water treatment to remove arsenic from aquifer water. I've just read the abstract for <"Combined effects of anions on arsenic removal by iron hydroxides"> and that says

The apparent adsorption constants indicated that the affinity of the anions for iron hydroxide sites decreased in the following order arsenate > phosphate> arsenite> silicate >bicarbonate.

So it looks like it is PO4--- ion first.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

So, does that mean that Hornwort can absorb orthosilicic acid to construct its skeleton?

I couldn't find out, but I assume it does. Whether it suppresses Diatom growth would be another question, this one <"Influence of Ceratophyllum demersum L. on phytoplankton structure in a shallow eutrophic lake"> says it does.

Additionally, Ceratophyllum demersum was found to inhibit diatom development, which is probably connected with the secretion of allelopathic substances by this plant. The aim of the current study was to analyze the influence of Ceratophyllum demersum L. on the structure of phytoplankton in a shallow, eutrophic lake.

<"Silica uptake in aquatic and wetland macrophytes: a strategic choice between silica, lignin and cellulose?"> Looked at a range of wetland plants and Ceratophyllum demersum was the highest accumulator of silica, even more than for aquatic grasses.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Last one for a while. <"Silica Storage, Fluxes, and Nutrient Stoichiometry in Different Benthic Primary Producer Communities in the Littoral Zone of a Deep Subalpine Lake (Lake Iseo, Italy)"> says

Benthic vegetation at the land-water interface is recognized as a filter for silica fluxes,
which represents an important but under-investigated subject. This paper aims to analyze stocks and fluxes of biogenic (BSi) and dissolved (DSi) silica in relation to nitrogen (N) and phosphorus (P) in the littoral zone of a deep lake. Specifically, we evaluated how different primary producers can influence BSi retention and DSi release. The study was performed in three different benthic communities: submerged aquatic vegetation (SAV) and microphytobenthos (MPB), both occurring in soft bottom sediments, and epilithic macro- and microalgae (EA) on rocky substrates. The main result was that SAV and MPB were a DSi source and a N and P sink with the DSi efflux from SAV nearly three times as much as in MPB patches.

Which I think is suggesting that silicon travels from submerged vegetation to diatoms in the phytoplankton.

cheers Darrel

 

[rebel]

I have had diatoms for months after I used clay/sand mix to start a tank. It stayed until I put in about 500 cherry shrimps. Overnight it was all gone!

Dominance of one algae must mean that the initial conditions favoured it but persistance of it may not mean that much because you could just remove all of it and it might not be able to take hold again. That's what I noted in the above tank. It never returned although most of the shrimp were given away to others after doing their job.

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @rebel

It stayed until I put in about 500 cherry shrimps.

I'm just trying to imagine what an army of 500 cherry shrimps must look like! Did you have to give them their marching orders? 😵

JPC 🙂

 

[Marcus_F]

I’m also thinking cost of 500 😱 I’m sure it’s about £10 for 5 near me.

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @Marcus_F

I’m also thinking cost of 500 😱 I’m sure it’s about £10 for 5 near me.

No doubt @rebel will explain but I suspect s/he started with half a dozen and they bred like rabbits cherry shrimps! 🤣

JPC

 

[rebel]

an army of 500 cherry shrimps

I will need to check whether I have a picture in photobucket. Someone gave it to me for $20. I had to take a picture with my phone just to count them. After I had given away close to 200, I counted about 600. 😉 So maybe it was even more. I still have shrimp from the same colony.

For BBA it's conceivable to add 30 of those snails that eat it or maybe SAE. I know amanos is high numbers could also eat em.

OT: The person who gave em away said it was a sausage fest but obviously there were some females. He noted that when his tank got to a critical number of shrimp (I assume he had 10k), they would suddenly attack on weak one and eat it. He got distressed and removed alot from his tank but made sure he removed a heap of males...... Apparently reducing population like this helped the 'cannibalism'.