Phosphate is the king of the planted tank

[JoshP12]

Hi all,When you calibrate the probe it should be in the air above the water, not actually in the water. If you don't know what the atmospheric pressure is you can use 1000 mbar and it won't be far wrong. Wikipedia gives you the <"conversion factors">.That is definitely not quite right.

Ok - thanks Darrel!

I should note that when it stopped dropping (the DO) it was when the ramp started and then into the end of the photoperiod (it is isn't 3 perfectly consecutive chunks, I had hours where I was distracted and forgot).

Does that make it "closer to right" with those details or there is still something off?

If it is an old meter there may be a tear in the semi-permeable membrane? If it is a new meter there might still be a seal or cover somewhere that needs removing?

I actually use the fish tanks to make sure the <"membranes are OK">. When the lights are on I pop the probe in the tank, if it doesn't equilibrate to ~100% saturation pretty quickly then I know the membrane is damaged.

cheers Darrel

Certainly old. With the info above, if it still doesn't suggest it is right (just off in the calibration as I used the stored calibration), then I will calibrate, and we can see.

Josh

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Does that make it "closer to right" with those details or there is still something off?

No, it should look like the CO2 (pH) curves. The spikes indicate that it isn't working.

but I've searched and can't see to find it now.

I couldn't find it either, it is back to having a lot of small common search terms. Where is the <"one legged Irishman"> when you need him? I think the thread included @Nick72 as well?

@Geoffrey Rea describes the tanks and flow in <"Maximising Dissolved......">.

cheers Darrel

 

[zozo]

Barr argued that he has no problem growing many plants together given the right CO2 and conditions.

With all due respect... That guy can grow plants no doubt about it. And he actually seems to be a nice guy too. And he likes to argue about a lot of things... But he's a person not only driven by science, but also driven by a large ego...

I can give an example, that can be traced back... 🙂

98% of the people in our hobby struggle and fail to grow Utricularia graminifolia. But not Tom Barr, he once made a statement about it a thread about it and he wrote succinctly:

"Anybody claiming Utricularia graminifolia is a difficult plant is smoking too much medical weed. And I can grow the snot out of it."

He blows the doors off but then he failed to explain or provide his followers with a how-to tutorial so anybody can grow the snot out of it.

Still till today such a tut doesn't excist 98% still fails miserably or only with short term success...

It says a lot about his ego downplaying all failers sticking feathers up his own and then walk...

And when scientists with large ego's yell proof it should raise a red flag and above all caution... 🙂 At least for me it does.

 

[rebel]

but also driven by a large ego...

Scientists often have egos; they are human after all. Dude, judge him by his technical knowledge and ability not by his teaching ability.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Scientists often have egos; they are human after all.

And when scientists with large ego's yell proof it should raise a red flag and above all caution.

"DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM? "😉

claiming Utricularia graminifolia is a difficult plant

I think it probably <"is reasonably easy"> if you don't grow it under-water.

Having said that I don't have a plant any-more, and all the Utricularia spp. I've grown, other than U. gibba, have <"boomed and bust">.

This was 2008 and it <"ended badly"> for both Utricularia and <"Apistogramma">.



cheers Darrel

 

[JoshP12]

The spikes indicate that it isn't working.

I've always seen these spikes (even when I calibrated it properly before). This happened with every probe. It may be the machine itself - super old.

I'll still recalibrate and see later.

Josh

 

[zozo]

Scientists often have egos; they are human after all. Dude, judge him by his technical knowledge and ability not by his teaching ability.

I can't because 80% of his technical knowledge goes beyond my comprehension. Thus i can only take his word for it... And actually it isn't a judgement, was more an observation that makes me cautious, to take his word for granted. But he still might be correct, for all i know. 🙂

 

[zozo]

"DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM? "

Are you?

I think it probably <"is reasonably easy"> if you don't grow it under-water.

I'm currently growing 4 different Utricularia sp. at home... Still, UG isn't among them and i tried several times. Even emerged or semi-aquatic, in my experience its a rather demanding and sensitive plant. Much more difficult than it's other family members.

That reasonably easy is likely very relative and not something universal.

 

[rebel]

That reasonably easy is likely very relative and not something universal.

This is certainly true. Some people in the hobby become jaded esp when constantly attacked by phosphate police etc.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I've always seen these spikes (even when I calibrated it properly before).

They definitely aren't right, because it is dissolved gas all changes will be relatively slow, and what you get is a "fuzzy line" along a smooth curve. I'll see if I can find a "diel oxygen curve" that isn't hidden behind a paywall.

Can you access this one? <"Lake metabolism and the diel oxygen technique: State of the science">.

cheers Darrel

 

[JoshP12]

This is certainly true. Some people in the hobby become jaded esp when constantly attacked by phosphate police etc.

The phosphate police! It is terms like these that jade the hobby. The CO2/Flow obsessors, the nutrient junkies, the nutrient scaredy cats, you name it.

People find tropes, sit in them, and preach what they believe is effective so that others stay in the hobby and can meet with success like they did; it is all from a good place.

The only way to move the hobby is to understand WHY each person argues in the way they do in search of understanding and see their point.

Josh

 

[JoshP12]

Hi all, They definitely aren't right, because it is dissolved gas all changes will be relatively slow, and what you get is a "fuzzy line" along a smooth curve. I'll see if I can find a "diel oxygen curve" that isn't hidden behind a paywall.

Can you access this one? <"Lake metabolism and the diel oxygen technique: State of the science">.

cheers Darrel

Thank you Darrel! I can access .

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Are you?

I've definitely got the ego to be a proper scientist, but I don't have the work ethic, I'm much too lazy, easily distracted and complacent.

I can access

Have a look at fig. 2 on page 633.

cheers Darrel

 

[tiger15]

If you look at Tapwater under a microscope you will find bacteria and algae spores... If you put tap water in a transparent bottle and neglect it for a while, you will find a biofilm developed to its inner wall. Put it in a light spot the algae will reproduce and grow.

All this simply is Ecology in a bottle... 😉

The definition of Ecology is

I guess David Wong is silent about some issues because he probably is the smartest of them. He likely realizes that the debate about the relevancy in ecology is too subjective. I think you are correct that he simply doesn't know...

The Eco part of the definition is a mother nature invention, we can't get around, only she decides it's relevancy. The Logic behind it is a human invention and in this, it's only what you see is what you get is relevant... It doesn't actually proof that much... For example not finding any only proofs you didn't find it...

I am not debating on the definition of "ecology." What I meant by irrelevance is that ecologic findings in a natural system may not necessarily be transferable to an artificial system. In fact, there is not one but many natural systems. Findings from one natural system may not necessarily be replicable in another.

Dennis Wong may be the smartest because he is not a scientist. Barr has a PhD in life science and Walstad has a master degree in microbiology. Dennis' profession is in law and finance, and I am surprised by his depth of understanding of the art and science of aquascaping.

 

[JoshP12]

Hi all, I've definitely got the ego to be a proper scientist, but I don't have the work ethic, I'm much too lazy, easily distracted and complacent. Have a look at fig. 2 on page 633.

cheers Darrel

Hmm, I am taking minutely reading - could that affect it - over 3 hours.

I see many less spikes in their readings.

Thanks.

Josh

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Hmm, I am taking minutely reading - could that affect it - over 3 hours.

More frequent readings should smooth out a lot of the noise in the recordings, so your readings should be more similar to one another, rather than less.

cheers Darrel

 

[JoshP12]

Dennis' profession is in law and finance, and I am surprised by his depth of understanding of the art and science of aquascaping.

Bring back the polymath!

 

[zozo]

I am not debating on the definition of "ecology." What I meant by irrelevance is that ecologic findings in a natural system may not necessarily be transferable to an artificial system. In fact, there is not one but many natural systems. Findings from one natural system may not necessarily be replicable in another.

Ok, then i misunderstood and took it too literally... 🙂 Sorry... And no I guess too, we can't really compare it too much with natural water bodies. We are missing major parts like we have no rats swimming around and no birds pooping in our tanks and many other things.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Bring back the polymath!

I can't because 80% of his technical knowledge goes beyond my comprehension.

Honestly it is the same for most scientists, they are on a hamster wheel.

From when they are graduate students, they have to keep publishing, applying for grants etc.

Science is <"incredibly competitive">, there isn't really any room for a breadth of knowledge.

cheers Darrel

 

[zozo]

I've definitely got the ego to be a proper scientist, but I don't have the work ethic, I'm much too lazy, easily distracted and complacent.

You forgot to add modesty... And this you have a lot as well... 🙂