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OASE 250 not filtering 'fines'... please help!

@Ulster Aquarist you don't find the flow rate too high or do you reduce it? Or would you say there's a real drop off in performance on the advertised lph? Thanks 🙂

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it would be interesting to hear people's thoughts on this... I mean, it's sold as suitable for a 200l but someone else said the same on another group and then there's the person in this thread running two 350s on a 300l, I think they said!
My hot take: There is filtration for "normal fishkeepers", filtration for scapers, and then theres filtration for hardcore plant/CO2/fertilizer enthusiasts.
The turnover brackets go something like this: 1 x tank volume, 5 x tank volume, 10-15x tank volume.

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Im running a pump thats rated for 5000L/H on my 250L tank :twisted: ..but it is adjusted quite low :lol:

I think all of the brackets suit the needs of the user group tbh, so its just a matter of finding out which one fits your needs :thumbup:
 
Oh man... well it's a low-tech tank, moderate planting, no CO2, fully stocked (heavily stocked I would think in comparison to many planted tanks where fish seem secondary). I'm not really sure which of those brackets I would fall into in terms of filter requirements? I thought I was doing okay with it being rated at 900lph on a 200l tank but maybe not, especially with it being well stocked?

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@Hufsa if I upgraded from the 250 to the 350 I go from 900lph to 1100lph. The 600 gets me up to 1250lph. It doesn't seem like a huge improvement

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We should separate filtration and flow actually, to be specific. Many enthusiasts have these massive canister filters because they want the flow for the most part. The plants do a lot of filtering.
So now that we have that in mind, to filter a regular fish tank, the surface area of the filter itself is not actually the crucial part. The determining factor is usually oxygen supply for the filter microbes. @dw1305 will tell you all about it 😊
So the flow through the filter for a regular fish tank just needs to make sure the microbes get enough oxygen, ruffle the surface up a bit in the tank, and be a suitable strength of flow for the fish that you have chosen.
Usually the rule of thumb is to expect about half as much actual flow through a canister filter, compared to what they are actually "rated" for. Because the quotes the manufacturer gives are with no media and no resistance.
If you find yourself wanting more flow specifically, its pretty simple and cheap to add a stand-alone power head / wavemaker somewhere in the tank :thumbup:
 
I am running dual canisters for my 90P (approx 185l) tank, Fluval 307 and 407 for a total 2500l/hr theoretical flow rate so thats about 13.5x flow.
The dual canisters of course allow me some redundancy in case of mechanical problems.
Also, flow rate does diminish over time as your sponges get clogged, so having excess filtration means I can be a bit lazier and clean my canister filters less often.
 
Okay, thank you 🙂

I'm running the Hel-X and sponges in some trays which should allow good flow through them and theoretically, aerobic action.

I have Fluval ceramic in other trays which should give ample surface area for bacteria and as they are tubes these should still allow good flow.

The area which could slow flow would be the 60ppi pre-filter sponges which will be cleaned weekly (quick and easy) with the water change and as these are in the prefilter these should prevent the main body becoming clogged and therefore protect flow through the rest of the filter.

I think that given that this is primarily a lifestock tank, this is probably appropriate... there should be a good enough flow through the filter with ample surface area to allow for plenty of aerobic filtration. Not to mention the plants and the bacteria on the sand, etc.

I have a little surface ripple as I don't like to hear splashing but given that it's a long tank and there's no CO2, this should be adequate oxygen exchange and all fish seem happy.

Most of my fish prefer low to moderate flow and I already see some of them seeking out areas of less flow, while my glass cats happily chill facing into the flow.

So I don't think more flow is going to be my first choice.

I think I probably have adequate filtration for the type of tank it is and the stock I hold (lots of tetras, some gourami, rams, glass cats and kuhli loach) and that I need to be patient and let a bit more sticky biofilm build up on the Hel-X and other media which should probably help trap the fines.

I'm going to use the info on this post to make some final decisions about the layout in my filter and then leave the main body well alone, get those 60ppi sponges in the pre-filter, keep up my 15% weekly water changes and just be patient 🙂

If after a month or two I'm still struggling with fines then I think maybe it's time to consider changing the filter.

Thank you so much everyone for all of your input!

It is very refreshing to get advice from people who actually know what they're talking about!

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Hi all,
If after a month or two I'm still struggling with fines then I think maybe it's time to consider changing the filter.
The filter should be fine, just think of it (and all <"other external filters">) as a <"pump in a bucket">.
The determining factor is usually oxygen supply for the filter microbes
I want <"belt and braces">, <"plenty of plants, plenty of oxygen"> and a <"diverse microbial assemblage"> to try and keep ammonia levels low at all times.
Yes, that is the important bit. <"Plant / microbe biofiltration"> is much more efficient than "microbe only" biofiltration and that means that only a relatively <"small volume of filter media"> is required.
believe some of it has come from a rookie error I made weeks ago when I put Purigen in to reduce tannins and forgot to rinse it!!!! It was bad. I then added Clarity as a flocculent and it's never been right since! This could help explain some of the tiny particles but not so much the full stop size ones which I think are crumbly fish poo. I tried the Clarity twice, with wool in the filter, and it just makes things worse... I end up with water that looks like milk!
In fact, last time I tried Clarity, I had JBL Symec Micro fleece in the filter... Still didn't catch it!
I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of any fine <"mechanical filtration media in the filter body"> or of any chemical filtration media really. As the others have said, if they work? They are really just sticking plasters . Have a look at <"Seachem Clarity">.
the filter trays just don't seal well enough to force the water through the Symec Micro. I know not all filters are great with fines..
I'd try with the finer sponge pre-filter and see what happens. I'm going to guess that things will improve over time whatever you do.
Fishkeeping is a bit money making racket of course, like any other hobby... pays to question it
That is a <"real problem"> for me. A total lack of honesty <"or transparency">.
and that I need to be patient and let a bit more sticky biofilm build up on the Hel-X and other media which should probably help trap the fines.
You may not get as much <"sticky biofilm as you expect">. One advantage of <"floating cell media"> is that it is designed to shed excess biofilm.

cheers Darrel
 
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Hi all,
It's largely the customers' fault. As long as all that magic sells well, nothing will change.
You are right, but I'm not sure you can always <"blame the customer">. It is true that the issue is that customers keep buying useless products, the problem is how do you work out whether a product is:
  • good,
  • good but over-priced, or
  • useless,
without an <"appropriate frame of reference">?

I've got a <"jaundiced view"> of a lot of this, but how (as a newcomer) would you be able to <"judge the veracity"> of any information offered? Or even be able to tell whether it was sponsored content, or an infomercial, rather than an honest opinion?

cheers Darrel
 
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@dw1305 hi... thank you so much for taking the time out to feed back... I'm going to make a cuppa and sit and digest your responses but my first reaction is it feels reassuring... no need for any major shake up, mostly time and patience 🙂

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I agree totally, but let's see the truth: It's largely the customers' fault. As long as all that magic sells well, nothing will change.
Hi... whilst you are not wrong in what you say as that is the nature of industry... it takes time and dedication to really learn a subject inside out, assuming the consumer is able to cut through the bull and find objective information in a world of contradictory opinions.

The problem is particularly for those of us with multiple interests and commitments, having enough time to go into adequate depth (which is often quite advanced) in every subject... that's where coming on here to pick your brains comes in

I'll give you an example. How many people on here own dogs? Now I have a qualification in dog nutrition and can happily tell you which common claims are marketing BS and which have truth behind them, as well as how to formulate a raw diet which will very often improve or even resolve health conditions. But I see so so many owners who are drowning in commercial lies and interests (think vets working alongside multinationals) It's not always easy as a consumer to cut through the noise without the help of someone more specialised 🙂

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Hi all,
Can happily tell you which common claims are marketing BS and which have truth behind them.......
........ who are drowning in commercial lies and interests (think vets working alongside multinationals) It's not always easy as a consumer to cut through the noise without the help of someone more specialised
@alex_l , that is the heart of it.

Where people have expertise and experience we can use that to build a framework of what is <"probable">, <"possible"> or <"totally implausible"> and then we can share that with other "dog" (or "aquarium") keepers.

I like the <"Aquarium Science"> site, it isn't perfect, but the owner has made an attempt to cut through all the BS and call out its perpetrators.

As a forum we've talked to <"Dr Tim Hovanec etc"> and we've tried to add some <"scientific references where possible">.

I have to apologise to @Miss-Pepper before I link this, because it is a bit of a rant <"Bedside Aquarium">, but it summarises where I think we are.

cheers Darrrel
 
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You've given me lots of bedtime reading here... should keep me out of mischief for a while

I expect it will all be really interesting and will probably help me keep more money in my pocket so I shall look forward to reading these articles... thank you 🙂

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@dw1305

Okay... I've just started by reading the 'bedside aquarium' thread. Very good and refreshing. Honestly, none of this surprises me (I am a cynic thanks to my work with dogs) and it only serves to pique my interest in setting up one of these shrimp bowls that are so on trend and that are filtered only by the plants. Let's face it, with electric prices as they are and limited space in a house... there's a lot of appeal in these!

Plants, time and oxygen. Yep... I can do that! May I ask, are all plants of equal value and how many plants are enough to really make a difference? I would say my tank is moderately planted and this makes me want to go out and buy a load more plants!Though my vallis will spread nicely, I'm sure. I have both rooted and water column feeding plants... my hunch is that those that feed in the water column will filter more effectively - is that correct? I also have floating amazon frogbit which is growing very modestly and making me think that my nitrates are therefore well under control (or perhaps it lacks some other nutrient).

I've gone off on a tangent here from where the post started but stripping it all back, as a concept, makes me happy. Sourcing found materials... my locally sourced oak screwed to slate from the roof... feeding unprocessed and natural foods... it's great!

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@dw1305

Also just read the article on Clarity and I was already spooked by the poor results it gave me but I'm now quite convinced not to meddle any more.

I haven't faffed with my son's tank at all and it's run beautifully from day one... says it all!

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How many people on here own dogs? Now I have a qualification in dog nutrition and can happily tell you which common claims are marketing BS and which have truth behind them, as well as how to formulate a raw diet which will very often improve or even resolve health conditions. But I see so so many owners who are drowning in commercial lies and interests (think vets working alongside multinationals) It's not always easy as a consumer to cut through the noise without the help of someone more specialised 🙂
This is something I could talk about for hours lol! I'm a trainer and behaviourist as well as working full time and studying plus looking after my own 5 dogs so learning via this forum is ideal. I've found that a lot of "known truths" are questioned here by the folk who know how to do that scientifically and it saves me a lot of time sifting through the BS on other fora. In the training/behaviour world we're up against the misinformation still spread by people who watched Cesar Millan 20 years ago or those that follow certain social media names on FB or TikTok...
 
my hunch is that those that feed in the water column will filter more effectively - is that correct?
In this, I disagree with @dw1305 a bit. I don't quite like his assessment that "plants filter the water". It is true that plants' presence and activity improve conditions in a tank. Yet most of the cleaning-filtering job is performed by microbes. Plants and microbes have positive effects on each other, so plants truly help. But if we realize that it's organic matter which is actually the source of pollution and dirt, then plants do not remove it, they take up mineral nutrients. Plants deliver oxygen, which is very needed by microbes and all living creatures, and provide extremely suitable habitat for microbes within their rhizosphere - providing settlement surface, saccharids and other organic exudates, and again, oxygen. Still, it's microbes who filter the water, by decomposing organic matter into mineral compounds.
---
Aquarium hobby, dog breeding, let me mention another branch: personal cosmetics. I've been into that business for a while and I can assure you that more than 90 per cent of the price you pay for this stuff is marketing costs. The product per se forms definitely less than 10 per cent of the price; mostly much less than that.
Why is it so? People are unable to distinguish quality. It's all advanced biochemistry. No layman can truly tell thanks to which compound a product works or doesn't work. It's all about enchanting and deceiving the customer. And, similarly to aquarium hobby, it often begins with inventing the problem. Then the vendor makes money on providing solution to a problem nobody ever heard about before.
I wonder if anyone can help it. All women want to be beautiful but only one per thousand knows something on organic (bio)chemistry.
 
Hi all,
In this, I disagree with @dw1305 a bit. I don't quite like his assessment that "plants filter the water"
No, I think I agree with you. Plants improve water quality <"by removing nutrient ions">, they are <"massively net oxygen producers"> and they create condition for <"greater microbial activity">, but with the exception that they may act as detritus traps (like mosses often do) they don't perform any mechanical filtration.
Plants deliver oxygen, which is very needed by microbes and all living creatures, and provide extremely suitable habitat for microbes within their rhizosphere - providing settlement surface, saccharids and other organic exudates, and again, oxygen. Still, it's microbes who filter the water, by decomposing organic matter into mineral compounds.
That is the bit that really interests me. Dissolved oxygen is the thing that matters, because it allows the microbes to <"more fully decompose food items">, including those that are comprised of <"structural carbohydrate"> and that offer <"very little nutrient">.

If you have <"invertebrate shredders"> (Snails, Shrimp or Asellus) they start the process by physically degrading larger particles. Personally I'm <"an Asellus fan">, but I understand they aren't to everybody's taste. If you have harder water Cherry Shrimps will perform the same "shredder" role.

cheers Darrel
 
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