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NA 120cm - Asian Dreams-IAPLC # 251

Hi Iain. I know full well ( as can be seen above - thanks Ady :shh: ) how frustrating BBA can be once it gets hold. When i got it in the tank above, it was about the same circumstances - work got too busy and I didn't keep an eye on things, and let things slip. This seems to be a fairly regular occurrence for me 😉 Don't get down with it, the mosses will recover even if you trim them back hard to clear the BBA. You might even see something new in the scape as it regrows that makes it better - I did 🙂

Of course you could just jack it all in and flog me the Futura 😉:lol:

Tony
 
Rob P said:
I think you're wrong, I think (unfortunately at your expense) it offers some (want to word this carefully...) 'insight' to the less experienced among us who can at least see that even people with vast skill and experience can have troubles. Just like when you see George posting about cyano in his latest tank (I mean, where the hell did that go so quickly?!).

Don't get me wrong, I am not for one minute wishing bad luck at your expense and wishing this kind of thing on better scapers, but what will be even more helpful is seeing how you win the battle, as although you guys can get into trouble, you always seem to get out of it quickly, relatively unscathed and stronger than ever.

I'm sure you'll come out of these troubles shining and restore your beautiful tank, very best of luck 🙂
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True. Amano has issues still with algae, so does the ADA store here. Some rather bad stuff. I really have not had any real issues over the last few years, I go looking for issues though and help others.
I work on seeing if I can prevent BBA and other algae over long time frames, or taking BBA covered plants and add them to a non CO2 tank etc.

Some suggest organic loading might be another cause..... but if you clean and do a good basic job with water changes, this is easily ruled out.
The rest is CO2.

Buce and Cyperus are pretty susceptible to BBA also. Moss? Not much at all, but moss getting BBA is telling about CO2, moss does well/best when CO2 is good.
Lots of shrimp helps also on keeping BBA off many items in the tank.

I spent 3 years before I really got a good handle on BBA. Amano said it took him 10 years. Yikes!
 
Interesting thoughts on BBA there. I have it and have had it for a while now, not bad, but requiring continuous manual removal and spot dosing. I can say for sure bioload is not a cause. Very few fish, 2x60% wc a week, monthly filter clean. So that leaves co2. But feel (not good enough, I know) that going higher will affect fish (makes me think of a Lou Reed song: "to cure you they must kill you..."). Should perhaps try this route anyway. My BBA is civilized enough to stay away from plants, but really likes my Yamaya stone. The new generation should come with some kind of nano coating 😛. The fight goes on. But hey, if it took Amano ten years...I do not like this calculation, though. Sorry Iain for slightly hijacking here, but thanks for opening this topic. As Rob says, kind of reassuring to see the pros suffering too.

Thomas
 
TOO, yes, CO2, perhaps lowing light might also make the demand for CO2 lower, thereby making management easier. Root issue seems to be CO2 though in your case/,most cases on some level if the basics are being done.
Adding more Amano shrimp can help a lot also to stop new growth, that's what you should look at for algae and plants to make assessments.
 
Tony Swinney said:
You might even see something new in the scape as it regrows that makes it better - I did
Of course you could just jack it all in and flog me the Futura
Tony
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Hi tony, thanks for the encouragement, its really good to see the link of your BBA dramas as shines a little light at the end of the tunnel. Heres hoping for a successful outcome.. things look a little better already.
Ok cool £50 and ill pay p&p?


I hope im not still struggling with BBA in 10 years tom, its unlikely ill fully understand but hope i have a handle on avoiding it at least.
This time round i think its been a combination of losing most of my amanos (60 odd) a few weeks back from what i think was copper and the co2 failing on me. The tank is kept pretty clean as i saw a marked improvement with BBA in the last tank when it was as clean as possible, quite difficult when hardscape is arranged in a way that make cleaning difficult.
I believe this comes from experience and is often overlooked by people with just a few years experience like myself.... design your scape to make cleaning easy!!


TOO said:
As Rob says, kind of reassuring to see the pros suffering too.
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Im no pro, im learning like the everyone else on here. Im happy to share my woes with all if it helps you in anyway.
 
Day 5

Reactor is now fixed and back running, very glad as i really dislike inlines.... obviously the misting is annoying but mainly just because reactors seem to work so much better, i find it easier to balance co2 with livestock.

Added 4 tiny SAE's, they arent doing much at the moment but know it can take a few days to settle. Having the co2 a little high this morning no doubt didnt help.

Have been running a ph timeline today, pretty rough but does show whats happening in the tank. I need to get it dialled in pretty quick as i know BBA loves fluctuating levels.

00.00 - 6.7
7am - co2 on
9am - 5.65 - light start ramping up. This is too quick a drop and fauna, while not gasping, are skittish. Lift the outlets a little for 30 mins to off gas some and dial back the co2 a tad.
10am - 5.77
12.30pm - 5.75
1pm - 5.62 - light intensity reaching peak around 1-3pm
3pm - 5.75 - co2 off

Looking at the numbers it shows a pattern that looks ok, id like to see the ph drop a little slower tomorrow morning now ive dialled the co2 back a bit, im not too worried about it being perfect at lights on as the leds ramp up over a few hours.

Still dosing LC daily but just 20ml now.
Generally things look a little better, seeing green tips on the moss after trimming out the BBA which is positive.
Im seriously tempted to try cutting all the cyperus off at substrate level and seeing how well it comes back... its certainly reducing flow to one end of the tank now its so tall. I reckon it would come back in 4-6 weeks..?

It would be a drastic move but figure i may learn something from it.... anyone with experience trimming cyperus like this??
 
Bummer...me too...that is my Iwagumi - Primordial - got smothered. I took my eye of the ball for a second and BAM! it came in from nowhere...and paradoxically it started, and then became worse, in the highest areas of flow and CO2 distribution. I don't have your patience, I tore it down today and gave the plants an Excel bath. I've no experience of trimming cyperus but my dwarf hairgrass didn't like it at all and it just made things worse. Anyway, you're not suffering alone buddy, and with persistence I'm sure it won't be too long before you win out.
 
oh no troi, primordial was looking awesome, a cracking scape. Thats a real shame, i guess with low plant mass then BBA and his algal friends will set in pretty quick.

BBA always seems to be worst in high flow areas, im not sure why this is but clive advocates that where poor/low co2 is the main factor with most algae, BBA can be easily triggered by fluctuating co2 (thats not to say that poor/low co2 wont cause it as). I would certainly advocate this and maybe suggest that those fluctuations are greatest where the highest turn over of water is??? those areas are also usually the ones that are directly in the line of fire from inlines/reactors??? purely speculating though and it makes sense in my head 😛

There seems to be a lot of people suffering at the moment, the silly season means tanks were being neglected i imagine.
 
Iain Sutherland said:
Hi tony, thanks for the encouragement, its really good to see the link of your BBA dramas as shines a little light at the end of the tunnel. Heres hoping for a successful outcome.. things look a little better already.
Ok cool £50 and ill pay p&p?


I hope im not still struggling with BBA in 10 years tom, its unlikely ill fully understand but hope i have a handle on avoiding it at least.
This time round i think its been a combination of losing most of my amanos (60 odd) a few weeks back from what i think was copper and the co2 failing on me. The tank is kept pretty clean as i saw a marked improvement with BBA in the last tank when it was as clean as possible, quite difficult when hardscape is arranged in a way that make cleaning difficult.
I believe this comes from experience and is often overlooked by people with just a few years experience like myself.... design your scape to make cleaning easy!!



Im no pro, im learning like the everyone else on here. Im happy to share my woes with all if it helps you in anyway.
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If you lost 60 Amanos, and had a CO2 issue, that right there is the problem.
The bloom occurs, then you need to really work to get it back, add algae eaters back etc.
Once the bloom happens, then you need correct things 1st, THEN kill what is there.
Otherwise you waste a lot of time and energy and it just grows right back.

So experience does help there, but..........watching the tank, watching the growth of plants, caring for livestock..........this is not some specific one thing, it's a multitude of factors often times.
 
Iain Sutherland said:
oh no troi, primordial was looking awesome, a cracking scape. Thats a real shame, i guess with low plant mass then BBA and his algal friends will set in pretty quick.

BBA always seems to be worst in high flow areas, im not sure why this is but clive advocates that where poor/low co2 is the main factor with most algae, BBA can be easily triggered by fluctuating co2 (thats not to say that poor/low co2 wont cause it as). I would certainly advocate this and maybe suggest that those fluctuations are greatest where the highest turn over of water is??? those areas are also usually the ones that are directly in the line of fire from inlines/reactors??? purely speculating though and it makes sense in my head 😛

There seems to be a lot of people suffering at the moment, the silly season means tanks were being neglected i imagine.
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Maybe you're right...when I think about it, it all started with being away for a week which also coincided with the need for a cylinder change, and if that weren't bad enough complacency, and wilful neglect. So therein lies the answer...I'm sure with a little TLC you'll get it back.
 
Day 6

things are continuing to look better and the SAE's are now nibbling away which will help.

PH this morning had dropped from 6.7 co2 off to 6.0 at lights on, DC lime green and livestock acting normal until i walk up to the tank. Think they are holding a grudge for neglecting them!!
Mostly seeing a reduction on leaved plants but the moss looks pretty much the same, truth is that some BBA will likely remain and new moss growth will mean its not visible. Assuming that the issues are sorted this isn't a problem as it shouldn't spread.

So tomorrow is another maintenance day and following some advise i will strip out a lot of the cyperus by pulling away the outer older leaves from the base of the plant. This leaves the 'heart' in tact to regrow from. Flow is certainly reduced in the back right corner and the ulvaceus hasn't been thriving for a while now.
Lots more lessons to be learnt, one being something i already new but obviously chose to ignore.... maintain plants weekly! I shouldn't let them get so long and dense that flow is compromised and have other things to deal with because of it. When i look at pristine tanks like george's i believe that can only be achieved by doing this... little and often. That right there is the issue with glass lids..... you 'bank' things to do in the tank rather than quickly dipping in.

Anyway waffling... adios
 
Troi said:
Maybe you're right...when I think about it, it all started with being away for a week which also coincided with the need for a cylinder change, and if that weren't bad enough complacency, and wilful neglect. So therein lies the answer...I'm sure with a little TLC you'll get it back.
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Hell, this same thing happens to many of us if not all.
If not today, then just wait and stay in the hobby longer, it surly will.
Seen it happen to folks that made the top IAPLC 20.
It'll happen to me and to you as well.

Correct the issue, see where you went wrong. Try to avoid it the next time.
 
Feel your pain Ian, I stopped dosing for a few weeks. Staurgyne carpet died off and I guess it caused an algae bloom, had bba ever since and I'm now fighting to get rid of it!
 
So work is still interfering with scaping and as such i haven't water changed since the last post, thankfully with daily LC dosing, having fixed the issues and the SAE's doing there thing it is looking ok. A week of water changes and love would help no end though.
BBA is present but in the background, moss is growing back in nicely in its more bushy higher light form and whole tank pearls within an hour of lights.

12152761606_27089baea5_b.jpg
SAE by iainsutherland24, on Flickr

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puntius denisonii by iainsutherland24, on Flickr
 
gave this some love today, thinned a lot of plants and cut the moss so a little cloudy.

I got bored of changing the floss in the filter a while ago so decided to try it without, taking the purigen out at the same time as it has been in there since start up.
2080 is just pre-filter sponge and alfogrog, e1501 just stock sponge and algagrog.
Its been like that for 4 weeks now and the only real difference is that it takes 2 days to clear after waterchange. After that its almost as clear as with floss and purigen. Id still add both before wanting some proper images but day to day its fine.

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IMG_4185 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr

I also changed the filters round so there is more flow at the back right now which was suffering some flow issue. Will see if it helps over the next week or so.
 

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