Hair Algae/No growth - Updated with pics

Discussion in 'Algae' started by Jaap, 19 Nov 2011.

  1. GillesF

    GillesF Member

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    Just a tip: place the diffuser at the other side, opposite the lily pipe. The bubbles will be pushed down by the current and dissolve better. That's how Mr. Amano does it too by the way.
     
  2. Jaap

    Jaap Member

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    I changed my photo period to 5 hours and moved the diffuser on the opposite side of the outflow lily pipe.

    Moving the diffuser doesn't seem to push the bubble down so I guess the outflow is not that strong.

    What can be done if changing the positions of lilly pipes/diffuser doesn't work? I have the Hydor PRIME 30 External Aquarium Filter which goes through 900 L/h but its nearly 10 years old and I was thinking maybe its losing its power...should I go out and buy a new filter?
     
  3. ghostsword

    ghostsword Member

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    The tank does look on a sorry state, something really is amiss.

    Hair algae thrives on the same conditions as most plants, just needs less to thrive.

    I would do following:
    - trim the hairgrass
    - double your ei dosing
    - two wc a week, 50% each
    - dose 2ml of easy carbo daily
    - lower the light period to 5 hours a day
    - get a nano koralia, you need flow

    Optional:
    - get some snails, either nerites or ramshorns
    - don't feed the fish for a week, a lean period would be good, forcing the snails to eat something else such as algae

    It may take a while but it can be done, just have patience.








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  4. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi,
    Filamentous algal forms are not related to NPK shortfalls, but instead are correlated with CO2 shortfalls, which has been pointed out several times in the thread. Therefore there is no value in increasing the nutrient levels since CO2 uptake is required in order to make use of any additional nutrient load. The initial outbreak was triggered by the OP's use of high energy lighting. Once the plants began to suffer, the algal blooms tightened their grip so that even reducing the light intensity by 50% was not enough. Algal blooms often follow a downward spiral so that even when the conditions improve it is too late. The OP has to now improve conditions as well as to break the stranglehold and evict the algae, both of which are difficult to accomplish quickly.

    The OP is therefore encouraged to significantly increase any combination of flow, gas injection rate and lowered lighting, at least on a temporary basis, to obtain better plant health.

    It's also unclear whether the glass has GSA or GDA but it looks like GDA which, if so, also indicates serious flaws in CO2 and flow distribution.

    If this is GSA and not GDA, then the glass has to be cleaned vigorously and multiple large water changes per week (like 50% or more 2X-3X per week) have to be employed in addition to the CO2 injection increase. Don't forget to dose nutrients immediately after the water change.

    Adding more flow will always help.Old pumps in filters don't so much lose power, but the filter media becomes dirty and clogged, increasing friction and significantly reducing the flow throughput. I hesitate steering folks in the direction of spending more money, so perhaps a thorough cleaning of the media and removal of some of the media to help increase the flow might be a more economical solution.

    Someone had also mentioned that all the tank inmates had died, and if that's so then there is every advantage in maxing the gas injection and in adding more Excel or whatever liquid carbon product is available, instead of adding more inmates.

    Cheers,
     
  5. ghostsword

    ghostsword Member

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    Every time I had issues with algae in tanks I lowered light intensity, doubled EI and increased CO2, and the issues disappeared in a week or so.

    Only issue is that too much easycarbo on the water kills some moss and riccia, but apart from that with regular water changes, daily if needed, the algae spores get taken out.

    But the lesson to take is that as ceg says, CO2 is more often than not the culprit. Either not enough, or too much light.


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  6. Jaap

    Jaap Member

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  7. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi,
    There is no point using a fermentation systems, which delivers less CO2 and which is less controllable, if you already have a pressurized cylinder system. Simply increase the injection rate, but do so with caution if you have fish in the tank.

    Hi Luis,
    Yes I understand that it's sometimes easier to use the shotgun approach. We know that these three things are the basic rules for being algae free and so it doesn't hurt, but it's better for the OP to see the root cause through to the end so that the concepts remain fixed in his mind. This avoid confusion. Filamentous algae is only ever CO2 related, and that a really important concept to grasp, know what I mean?

    Cheers,
     
  8. Jaap

    Jaap Member

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    I was saying to use the electronic diffuser/pump with my pressurized system for better delivery of the co2
     
  9. ghostsword

    ghostsword Member

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    Of course Clive, I completely understand the reason for using the right approach to meet a problem head on. :)

    I am lazy in just bombing the tank with ferts, doesn't hurt and even the fish are healthier. :) The only plant I have that does not seem to like ferts is weeping moss, it turns brown, unless it is the high temperature.

    To the OP, regarding co2, just get a proper co2 setup, it will make your life easier. :)


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  10. Jaap

    Jaap Member

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    what do u mean a proper CO2 setup? It is a proper pressurized CO2 with a diffuser. The whole problem is the distribution of the CO2. I believe ceg and ghostsword have missunderstood my question. I have a pressurized CO2 setup, however in the link provided above there is a small electronic diffuser that acts as a pump where CO2 is pushed from one end into this electronic diffuser and pushed out of the other end of this electronic diffuser since it is also a pump.

    Does that sound good? Forget about the DIY part of the kit I am talking about the grey diffuser that sits in the water.
     
  11. ghostsword

    ghostsword Member

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    OK, I got it wrong.. :) sorry..
     
  12. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, i mean, mate, if you had said that before then it would have helped us to focus and both Luis and I might not have misunderstood. When the link is clicked a picture of the entire assembly shows up. Also, no one really knows what an "electronic diffuser" is. On face value this appears to be a marketing gimmick. Is it considered "electronic" because it has a pump? Since neither Ghostworld nor I are familiar with this particular gadget it's difficult to judge whether it has any value.

    I prefer to use an in-line external device such as the popular Up-Atomizer, the AM1000 or the more expensive Cal-Aqua inline reactor. That way the water coming into the tank is almost fully saturated with CO2.

    In any case, I dug a bit more into the user manual of this system in your link and I can see now that the diffuser is not electronic at all. It's simply a plastic jug with a pump mounted on top. Theoretically, the CO2 being pumped into the plastic jug will have better mixing as it is directed into the outflow of the little pump as it finds its way out of the bottom of the jug through what looks like coarse filter material.

    This should be a little better than blowing bubbles straight up and out of the tank, however, there is still the problem of having to distribute this CO2 rich water stream across the tank, so it's still not as good as an in-line device. Although, having said that, you don't have a filter with enough muscle to do justice to an in-line device anyway, so this device might be as good as it can get without spending a more money. Since you already have it then try it an see how you get on. Ultimately, you will still need to increase the injection rate, but this unit counts as having an extra pump so it will force CO2 enriched water down into the tank instead of up. You should also try using it without the filter material which will give better flow out of the plastic jug. :thumbup:

    Cheers,
     
  13. Jaap

    Jaap Member

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    thanks for the replies. i have an inline atomizer but never used it. i shall install it immediately. however, if buying a new better filter is the ultimate solution then i will go with that. what do u think?
     
  14. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, I'll always say YES! to bigger filters, no doubt whatsoever, especially when combined with an external atomizer (are you kidding me?). The thing is that I'm afraid your wife will object and insist that you buy something boring, like a bigger dishwasher instead. This would mean arguments, wouldn't it? I would then be blamed for marital discord and I don't want that on my conscience....

    Cheers,
     
  15. ghostsword

    ghostsword Member

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    Buy the biggest filter you can afford, of a reputable brand, that is. Eheim and Fluval are good. JBL also is another contender, as I got a jbl profi e900 on the room and many times I need to check if it is still working, it is really silent.

    CO2 is the most important thing to get right, and there are many ways to go about it, but the inline difuser with a powerful filter, with the the spraybar at the back pushing the co2 difused on the water forward is by far the best way. :)

    It may not be pretty, a green bar at the back, but it works.
     
  16. Jaap

    Jaap Member

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    My dear friend I am not married and I work so I have my own money therefore no need to worry about spending money :p However, thanks for your consideration :) Back to business since I want this thing to work, I have trimmed the grass, installed the atomiser, lowered the photo-period to 5 hours and started dosing excel. I have removed all fish from the tank so nothing can go wrong.

    What do you think?
     
  17. Jaap

    Jaap Member

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    What about tetratec?
     
  18. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, I think it's a great start and you need to really crank the CO2 to high levels now that you don't have to worry about fish. The Excel should be dosed every day at about the same time that the gas is turned on - 1-2 hours or so prior to turning the lights on. You can then turn the gas off a few hours prior to turning the lights off.

    If you adhere this procedure you should find that the dropchecker turns a light green or yellow just when the lights go on. I assume your dropchecker fluid is 4dkh? It's really important that the dropchecker is at least light green when the lights are turned on. A dark green or blue dropchecker at lights on is a bad sign. The most important time for CO2 is at lights on so even if the dropchecker turns from dark green to light green or yellow a few hours after lights on, the plants will still suffer. The very microsecond that the lights go on, the water must be saturated with CO2 as much as possible and as evenly as possible.

    You will then see almost immediate improvements. Also, when you perform the water changes, try to do them so that everything is done and new water is added before lights on. This will help to maximize CO2. You must still clean and scrub the tank clean though, and you can spot dose Excel on the rocks and hard scape while the water level is low but do not spot dose the plants with the Excel otherwise you are likely to do irreparable damage to the plant.

    Cheers,
     
  19. Jaap

    Jaap Member

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    Hello after a long time,

    the problem still continues but that is because I have not tried to do much about the sittuation up until 2 weeks ago and here is what I did:

    1. Installed the paintball co2 system with an UP atomizer under the filter intake
    2. Daily addition of 20ml of Excell (tank is 80L)
    3. Increased my Seachem Flourish dose from 1ml to 4ml so as to increase the Iron dosing to the recommended EI level
    4. Worked up a new batch of NPK solution from dry salts to ensure "correct" dosing
    5. Got a new filter with a flow of 1000 L/h
    6. Removed the lilypipes that might have reduced flow and left the Fluval inflow and outflow
    7. The lights are on for 5 hours a day
    8. Weekly water change of more than 50%
    9. Weekly maintenance of the filter
    10. Manually remove hair algae which is sometimes impossible since it is suffocating the Eleocharis Parvula

    I now see new growth but not much yet. The algae is not dead yet but it has stopped growing.
    This has been done for 8 days now should I change something?
     
  20. Jaap

    Jaap Member

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    Should I go up from 24w to 48w and from 6hours per day to 8 hours per day?

    Tha tank is 80L and 45cm tall.
     

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