FrozenShivers
Member
Good to know as I wasn’t aware and I have soft water also!
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First attempt at fishkeeping and aquascaping - 60L tropical aquarium
- Thread starter itudela
- Start date
Good to know as I wasn’t aware and I have soft water also!
Bradders
Member
Thats odd. The water report mean pH testing shows a pH of 8.2. But your tests are showing a pH of 6.0-6.4 - and that includes the tap water testing! Thats quite a difference.
I suspect now you introduced 12 Ember Tetras yesterday, this is going to kick-start the ammonia source and cycle, so I think the next couple of days to a week are going to be interesting in terms of water chemistry. I am currently cycling with a pH of 6.0 to 6.8, so we are not too far off on the pH level.
itudela
New Member
I also noticed that. I usually measure the tap water as it comes out (rather cold). Proper measurements with a pH meter equipped with a temperature probe would take into account the temperature, but I would not expect that to result in a difference of 2!
We are around 6 miles away... I am curious if something may be going on that may have that effect between the treatment plant and our home.
I'll make some popcorn! By Wednesday the cavalry (i.e. new plants) should have arrived. Hopefully we will have made it then.
itudela
New Member
Morning update...
Tank water test results with JBL strips:
NO3 = 10 ppm
NO2 = 0 ppm
GH = 4 - 7 degrees
KH = 0 degrees
pH = 6.4 (or lower?)
Cl2 = 0 ppm
Tank water test results with Aqua are Master Test Kit:
NO3 = 5 - 10 ppm (very weak, but progressively growing)
NO2 = 0 ppm
NH3 = 0 ppm
KH = 0 degrees
pH = 6.0 - 6.5 (or lower?)
PO4 - P = 0 - 0.25 ppm (starting to show a very weak yellow color, depending on background and light)
Tap water looks exactly the same as before with a strip, although the pH seems a bit higher today (6.4 - 6.8) and with a touch of chlorine (0.8 - 1.5 ppm).
On another topic, one of the plants I got seems to be quite happy. I splitted the pot into 4 bits, and although all of them are growing, two of the stems are thriving, throwing roots everywhere. If anyone knows the species, please do let me know! @jamiep, any chance you could know it? You got the other one right.
Tank water test results with JBL strips:
NO3 = 10 ppm
NO2 = 0 ppm
GH = 4 - 7 degrees
KH = 0 degrees
pH = 6.4 (or lower?)
Cl2 = 0 ppm
Tank water test results with Aqua are Master Test Kit:
NO3 = 5 - 10 ppm (very weak, but progressively growing)
NO2 = 0 ppm
NH3 = 0 ppm
KH = 0 degrees
pH = 6.0 - 6.5 (or lower?)
PO4 - P = 0 - 0.25 ppm (starting to show a very weak yellow color, depending on background and light)
Tap water looks exactly the same as before with a strip, although the pH seems a bit higher today (6.4 - 6.8) and with a touch of chlorine (0.8 - 1.5 ppm).
On another topic, one of the plants I got seems to be quite happy. I splitted the pot into 4 bits, and although all of them are growing, two of the stems are thriving, throwing roots everywhere. If anyone knows the species, please do let me know! @jamiep, any chance you could know it? You got the other one right.
Bradders
Member
I am still perplexed why the 44 water supplier tests done up to June this year, never had tap water lower than a pH of 7.8. But you are getting much lower! How weird is that?! I know these things are never totally bang on, but still.......
itudela
New Member
I guess the network between the plant and our home. I am going to let the tap water standing and then do another test... And probably check our neighbours' water in case we need a plumber!
Hi all,
In a lot of UK tap water you would have some <"buffering from carbonate ions" (dKH)>, derived from dissolved CaCO3. Calcium carbonate (CaCO3) is a weak base and <"technically insoluble in water">, but soluble in weak acids.
We can ignore the <"sodium Na+ ion in pH terms">, but you only need a very small addition of an acid (proton donor) for the H+ ion to combine with OH- ion and be neutralised as H2O and the pH to return to pH7.
If you have a small excess of H+ ions (from <"dissolved CO2"> etc) the pH will fall below pH7.
cheers Darrel
It is because of the water company using sodium hydroxide (NaOH) injection for <"control of plumbosolvency">.
The reason the values are so strange is that NaOH is a "strong base", so only need a small volume addition to raise the pH. Because it is a "strong base" <"strong and weak bases"> it doesn't add any <"buffering">, all the Na+ and OH- ions are already in solution (it is "fully ionised", there isn't any undissolved NaOH).
In a lot of UK tap water you would have some <"buffering from carbonate ions" (dKH)>, derived from dissolved CaCO3. Calcium carbonate (CaCO3) is a weak base and <"technically insoluble in water">, but soluble in weak acids.
We can ignore the <"sodium Na+ ion in pH terms">, but you only need a very small addition of an acid (proton donor) for the H+ ion to combine with OH- ion and be neutralised as H2O and the pH to return to pH7.
If you have a small excess of H+ ions (from <"dissolved CO2"> etc) the pH will fall below pH7.
cheers Darrel
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itudela
New Member
I hadn't thought about that. In my previous job we treated the effluent water from a process line with caustic soda precisely to precipitate heavy metals (which we would coagulate, sediment and then filtrate).
I was thinking the high pH in the treatment plant might be from treating it with limestone; I got the impression from someone from Scottish Water that I met at work that most natural waters in Scotland are acidic in nature, so they bring the pH up with limestone (which is why I initially thought about adding some small chunks to my tank).
The calcium carbonate might add some buffer effect to the tap water (as opposed to caustic soda, as @dw1305 says), but I guess that if enough CO2 was absorbed between the treatment point and my home, it may be perfectly reasonable to have a pH drop if the KH is really low. I mean, a drop of oH from 8 to 6 is two orders of magnitude, but a pH of 6 is (if my math is correct?) 0.001 ppm of protons in practice...
I joined for the plants, fish and snails, but I may stay for the chemistry!!
Hi all,
I know that there has been a shortage of sodium hydroxide (NaOH) <"Has Caustic Soda Become the New Unobtanium?">, but I'd very surprised if anyone is using anything else, by choice, because NaOH gives you maximum bang for your buck <"Poolend & Highgate pH Correction & Plumbosolvency (2017) |">.
The problem with <"calcium hydroxide"> (Ca(OH2)) is solubility. If you had more dGH then you would expect (CaCO3 gives 1 : 1 dGH : dKH) then calcium hydroxide is an option.
cheers Darrel
They use <"limestone in the catchments"> sometimes, but it has gone a bit out of fashion recently. I'm pretty sure they aren't using it in water treatment, although sodium carbonate (Na(CO3)2) would be an option. Any carbonate compound would add dKH and CaCO3 isn't really soluble enough to be an option.
I know that there has been a shortage of sodium hydroxide (NaOH) <"Has Caustic Soda Become the New Unobtanium?">, but I'd very surprised if anyone is using anything else, by choice, because NaOH gives you maximum bang for your buck <"Poolend & Highgate pH Correction & Plumbosolvency (2017) |">.
The problem with <"calcium hydroxide"> (Ca(OH2)) is solubility. If you had more dGH then you would expect (CaCO3 gives 1 : 1 dGH : dKH) then calcium hydroxide is an option.
cheers Darrel
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Hi all,
We have some bits on <"ferric compounds"> as precipitants for phosphate in waste water.
cheers Darrel
That is it, wastewater treatments tend to rely heavily on using sodium hydroxide (or "caustic soda" - (NaOH)) for pH correction, mainly to counteract the drop in pH when using ferric (or aluminium) based coagulants.
We have some bits on <"ferric compounds"> as precipitants for phosphate in waste water.
cheers Darrel
itudela
New Member
@dw1305, you would have enjoyed playing with the system! Ferric chloride was precisely the flocculant we used, and we brought the water from pH 3 to at least 9.5 to get rid of Ni2+ before discharge. We designed the process thinking we were going to have a lot of Ni2+ in the effluent, but the concentration was not really that high in practice, and we could have almost discharged it as it was after adjusting the pH. Using ferric with a low concentration of heavy metals was actually more difficult to operate that if we had lots of them, as the resulting flocculants were not as consistent as those when you have a lot of metal precipitates after adjusting the pH. We also had Sn2+ and a bit of Cu2+, but that wasn't an issue at all. Brings me great memories...
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
I mainly play with <"clean water now">. I miss the wastewater work (mainly <"landfill leachate">), although some of it <"was pretty horrible">.
cheers Darrel
simon_the_plant_nerd
Member
Do you miss the smell? 😄 I visit a few waste sites with work (was at a landfill the other week) and they’re often surprised that I’m not bothered by the smell. After a couple of years working on sewage treatment, most everything else smells pretty good.
itudela
New Member
The cavalry has arrived! I got the Dennerle plants and they are now in the tank. The tetras were out calmly looking at what was going on (I could hear something like "this guy has no clue" from their side).
So... Very happy with the limnobium laevigatum, long roots and relatively easy to untangle.
Not than happy with the phyllanthus fluitans, but I reckon it'll do the job and develop more roots in the upcoming weeks.
The pogostemon deccanensus, however, was a pain to untangle and it was almost impossible to plant due to the way it has been grown... Definitely not a plant you want in an in-vitro pot. Not sure if it will survive. I hope it does a grows so the left background of the tank is taken by it, and the right part if the background is dominated by the alternanthera reineckii rosanervig (thanks @jamiep for the name, it definitely is that one).
In the meanwhile, these guys are gaining some color... I guess they should be doing ok.
And these guys are more mobile and munching more often, although I am still happy to gift them to anyone in the Edinburgh area with an alkaline tank
Water tests are still the same. Nitrates remain around 5 - 10 ppm, and no nitrite nor ammonia. Still in the ICU, but still alive...
So... Very happy with the limnobium laevigatum, long roots and relatively easy to untangle.
Not than happy with the phyllanthus fluitans, but I reckon it'll do the job and develop more roots in the upcoming weeks.
The pogostemon deccanensus, however, was a pain to untangle and it was almost impossible to plant due to the way it has been grown... Definitely not a plant you want in an in-vitro pot. Not sure if it will survive. I hope it does a grows so the left background of the tank is taken by it, and the right part if the background is dominated by the alternanthera reineckii rosanervig (thanks @jamiep for the name, it definitely is that one).
In the meanwhile, these guys are gaining some color... I guess they should be doing ok.
And these guys are more mobile and munching more often, although I am still happy to gift them to anyone in the Edinburgh area with an alkaline tank
Water tests are still the same. Nitrates remain around 5 - 10 ppm, and no nitrite nor ammonia. Still in the ICU, but still alive...
itudela
New Member
End of week 2, and just a quick update! The floaters made a complete difference, as the semi-perennial mils bloom I had since I started was gone within 24 hours after putting them in the tank - thanks @dw1305 for that!
The Amazon frogbit has spread their roots... I foresee some root trimming very soon!
And the reed root floater is starting to show some red colour in both leaves and roots (which are way shorter than those of the frogbit, but also growing).
Not just that, I get the feeling they are taking a lot of nitrate, as it stopped increasing and the pink shade in the water tests now looks even weaker (barely noticeable in the strips). The other plants are doing well, especially the alternanthera reineckii rosanervig. For the last few days we can also see some diatoms over the leaves of some of the plants, which I reckon is not that bad of a sign for a new aquarium from scratch.
So here it come the controversial question... With no ammonia, no nitrite, a hint of nitrates and some algae growing... Can I say my tank is cycled?
By the way, I feed these guys early in the morning... And I can already see then getting ready for food at 7:30 in the morning every day...
The Amazon frogbit has spread their roots... I foresee some root trimming very soon!
And the reed root floater is starting to show some red colour in both leaves and roots (which are way shorter than those of the frogbit, but also growing).
Not just that, I get the feeling they are taking a lot of nitrate, as it stopped increasing and the pink shade in the water tests now looks even weaker (barely noticeable in the strips). The other plants are doing well, especially the alternanthera reineckii rosanervig. For the last few days we can also see some diatoms over the leaves of some of the plants, which I reckon is not that bad of a sign for a new aquarium from scratch.
So here it come the controversial question... With no ammonia, no nitrite, a hint of nitrates and some algae growing... Can I say my tank is cycled?
By the way, I feed these guys early in the morning... And I can already see then getting ready for food at 7:30 in the morning every day...
itudela
New Member
So, it's been roughly over a month since my last post, and things have been going fairly well... although in a rather unorthodox way. Yes, I know I may have sped things up a bit too much, but reading here and there, taking all the any information and checking how things were going on a daily basis encouraged me to try things up.
This is how things look like right now. The crypts have been growing slowly yet steadily, and they have created a dense bottom layer on the tank that provides a lot of shade to the livestock, who really enjoys swimming through the stems and leaves of the crypts.
On the background of the tank, the alternanthera reineckii rosanervig have been growing quite well, to the point that I now have several independent plants and I will need to trim the ones at the very back very soon. In addition, I added some elodea densa that have already been trimmed once, making new stems that I replanted... And I reckon another trimming will be needed soon.
The Amazon frogbit and red rooters have been doing more than fine, to the point that I'm been trimming the frogbit roots every two weeks and another trimming is on the way. The red rooters are getting redder as we speak, and the frogbit leaves are getting massive. I am starting to thing that I have way too many floaters now, as they are starting to pile on top of each other. So, if anyone is in Edinburgh or Midlothian and need floaters, please let me know! By the way, I changed the filter that came with the kit for a Fluval U2, and you should see the porous media it came with... It's starting to look like the porous red lava rock I have, so I reckon bacteria are thriving as well there!
Regarding the pogostemon deccanensis, rooting was a nightmare and some bits ended up floating around all the time. After some struggle, most of it finally started to grow over the last few weeks, and although it is rather slow, I believe it will look great in the long term next to the elodeas.
Finally, I thought about getting rid of the mini pagoda, but the wee one likes it so it is staying. However, we added a small pot of New Zealand micro swords that I split into two so it doesn't feel alone!
And now with the controversial stuff... As water levels have remained unchanged and even the little shade of nitrates was long gone (it's been like that for nearly 5 weeks now), we have been adding new livestock every odd week. We now have some neocarodinia shrimp (yellow), which have cleared nearly all the algae from the tank. Some neon tetras, who have started some spawning dancing this very last week along with the ember tetras we already had. And two couples of endlers, with one of them pregnant, who as of yesterday is no more... So, if someone in Edinburgh or Midlothian wants some endlers, please let me know!
The only bad news in this regard is one of the zebra nerites we have, which I suspect is dead (still no rotten smell). I think they may be starving due to the shrimp eating a lot of the algae (the endlers also do like munching the algae from the air stone piping, which the shrimp have not bothered with). Funnily enough, their shells are ok, and the other two are doing fine. But I tried feeding them algae wafers or blanched vegetables, and they actually get away from them.
This is how things look like right now. The crypts have been growing slowly yet steadily, and they have created a dense bottom layer on the tank that provides a lot of shade to the livestock, who really enjoys swimming through the stems and leaves of the crypts.
On the background of the tank, the alternanthera reineckii rosanervig have been growing quite well, to the point that I now have several independent plants and I will need to trim the ones at the very back very soon. In addition, I added some elodea densa that have already been trimmed once, making new stems that I replanted... And I reckon another trimming will be needed soon.
The Amazon frogbit and red rooters have been doing more than fine, to the point that I'm been trimming the frogbit roots every two weeks and another trimming is on the way. The red rooters are getting redder as we speak, and the frogbit leaves are getting massive. I am starting to thing that I have way too many floaters now, as they are starting to pile on top of each other. So, if anyone is in Edinburgh or Midlothian and need floaters, please let me know! By the way, I changed the filter that came with the kit for a Fluval U2, and you should see the porous media it came with... It's starting to look like the porous red lava rock I have, so I reckon bacteria are thriving as well there!
Regarding the pogostemon deccanensis, rooting was a nightmare and some bits ended up floating around all the time. After some struggle, most of it finally started to grow over the last few weeks, and although it is rather slow, I believe it will look great in the long term next to the elodeas.
Finally, I thought about getting rid of the mini pagoda, but the wee one likes it so it is staying. However, we added a small pot of New Zealand micro swords that I split into two so it doesn't feel alone!
And now with the controversial stuff... As water levels have remained unchanged and even the little shade of nitrates was long gone (it's been like that for nearly 5 weeks now), we have been adding new livestock every odd week. We now have some neocarodinia shrimp (yellow), which have cleared nearly all the algae from the tank. Some neon tetras, who have started some spawning dancing this very last week along with the ember tetras we already had. And two couples of endlers, with one of them pregnant, who as of yesterday is no more... So, if someone in Edinburgh or Midlothian wants some endlers, please let me know!
The only bad news in this regard is one of the zebra nerites we have, which I suspect is dead (still no rotten smell). I think they may be starving due to the shrimp eating a lot of the algae (the endlers also do like munching the algae from the air stone piping, which the shrimp have not bothered with). Funnily enough, their shells are ok, and the other two are doing fine. But I tried feeding them algae wafers or blanched vegetables, and they actually get away from them.
itudela
New Member
Forgot one last thing... the wee one loves his aquarium, and loves to stare at them whenever he is around (picture from a few weeks ago).
