External Filter Cycling

[KipperSarnie]

One of the considerations has to be few plants thrive at the higher temperatures.
I know many plantsmen offer a "Discus Collection" but when you investigate non of the plants are actually recommended for the high temperature.
I should also add all my tanks have floating plant, I believe they give the fish a sense of security as well as shaded areas & they also like to cruise the plant looking for tid bits.

The tank-scape is as much part of the pleasure as the fish are!

 

[KipperSarnie]

Thanks for the biotope link I'm getting quite a collection from a number of authors.

 

[sciencefiction]

The recommended temperature for discus is actually 26-27C. Most plants will do just fine in that temp.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I know many plantsmen offer a "Discus Collection" but when you investigate non of the plants are actually recommended for the high temperature.

You are safe enough with floaters like Pistia and Salvinia, they will definitely take very high temperatures and very bright light. Carbon dioxide availability isn't an issue either, because they have floating leaves.

Here is another biotope one: <"Aquatic herbaceous plants of the Amazon floodplains: state of the art and research needed">

<"These pictures"> were taken from plants that grew in the glasshouse, where water temperatures must have reached 40oC fairly regularly.

cheers Darrel

 

[darrensp]

http://www.flowgrow.de/db/aquaticpl...phvalue][min]=4.5&filter[nitrate][max]=75This may help you find plants

 

[KipperSarnie]

The recommended temperature for discus is actually 26-27C. Most plants will do just fine in that temp.

26-27c Where is this information from?
Everywhere I have read the recommended temperature is 30c.
I keep mine in a range of 28.5 to 30c.

 

[roadmaster]

26-27c Where is this information from?
Everywhere I have read the recommended temperature is 30c.
I keep mine in a range of 28.5 to 30c.

Temperature range you are keeping them at is fine.
Just not a whole lotta other species of fishes much care for them.(Warmer temps)
Echinodorus,Vallesneria,Wysteria,anubia,many crypt's would work along with floater's like duck weed.
Me thinks my Discus keeping experience would have been much more enjoyable/easier, if I had been fully aware of the benefit's plant's provide at assimilating that which I performed many water changes to remove every other day with group's of young juveniles.

 

[sciencefiction]

26-27c Where is this information from?
Everywhere I have read the recommended temperature is 30c.
I keep mine in a range of 28.5 to 30c.

Discus forums but in nature that is also the norm. I am not sure all information out there is reliable and lots of it is contradictive.

26-27c Where is this information from?
Everywhere I have read the recommended temperature is 30c.
I keep mine in a range of 28.5 to 30c.

Almost all Heiko Bleher biotope info states those temperature ranges. But here is from a discus forum. You'd want temp 80-82F whatever that is in C according to experienced keepers.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...-Warm-Enough-for-Discus&highlight=temperature

 

[KipperSarnie]

82 - 84F is about 27.8 - 28.9C
The first post giving these temperatures date back to 2008.

The latest post on that topic, Sept' 2016, is about the fish being healthier less lethargic with better appetites at the higher temperature of 84-86F 28.9 - 30C.

The big problem with Discus forums is they seem to be "Affiliated" & have a cliche of bully Prima Donnas with their own entourage of followers.
A couple I've belonged to I have had posts removed because I've dared to question. In a polite way I should add.
(I set up my own forum on FB to overcome this problem...... 3 members 🙂.... Two of which are me! )

I would also think that the majority of Discus discussed are hybrids of which I have no interest.

I post a lot here at UKAPS because I have planted tanks, nothing to the skill level of others here but also because the forums are friendly & very very helpful.
A disagreement is a discussion. Not an argument!

 

[zozo]

Focus on the first 30 seconds


skip to 1:00 minute to 1:20


The most informative youtube documentaries are still the german ones (unfortunately for the non german speakers). 🙂
12.33 to 15:30 and 19:59 to 21:40

Depending on the season Discus dwell in various habitats, high water season they go into the shallow tributaries with plenty marginal (aquatic) vegitation. (As seen in the first and second vid. Low water season they are more at marginal places in the deeper main stream, always in areas with abundand cover, that's where the so often seen non planted overhanging root structure biotope recreations probably find its origine. At these places they are actualy caught at very dark nights, full moon nights light penetrates deeper and they go to deep to be caught. 🙂

Actualy in my idea creating a as true as possible discus biotope, one would need to build a huge riparium recreating a high water tributary.
Sigh... If i where a rich man.. Deedle didle deedle dum....

 

[sciencefiction]

I would also think that the majority of Discus discussed are hybrids of which I have no interest.

What are your reliable sources for keeping wilds at 28.5-30 C

 

[roadmaster]

82 - 84F is about 27.8 - 28.9C
The first post giving these temperatures date back to 2008.

The latest post on that topic, Sept' 2016, is about the fish being healthier less lethargic with better appetites at the higher temperature of 84-86F 28.9 - 30C.

The big problem with Discus forums is they seem to be "Affiliated" & have a cliche of bully Prima Donnas with their own entourage of followers.
A couple I've belonged to I have had posts removed because I've dared to question. In a polite way I should add.
(I set up my own forum on FB to overcome this problem...... 3 members 🙂.... Two of which are me! )

I would also think that the majority of Discus discussed are hybrids of which I have no interest.

I post a lot here at UKAPS because I have planted tanks, nothing to the skill level of others here but also because the forums are friendly & very very helpful.
A disagreement is a discussion. Not an argument!

Will this tank be relatively low tech?
I am not sure wild Discus if you wish, would take readily to the sharp increase in TDS from dry fertilizer's we add consistently for plant's considering they often come from water's with very low TDS and or hardness..
Domestic strains,or hybrid's if you wish, would maybe be more forgiving.
No worries if R/O mix with tap water and stored for water changes IMHO

 

[KipperSarnie]

What are your reliable sources for keeping wilds at 28.5-30 C

I never used the word reliable!
I seem to be under interrogation here! for wanting the best conditions for my fish.
My sources are Stenker, discus-somethingsphishy.com, Aquatechnics & various articles from breeders, suppliers particularly articles about the Rio Nanay, Lake Tefe & the Rio Tefe.

Will this tank be relatively low tech?
IMHO

All my Discus tanks are LowTec I believe. External filters, added peat, airline, mixture of RO & HMA water with added blackwater tonic & minerals.

 

[roadmaster]

Handsome tanks in photo's, just my style!
Just a tip,,Can boil some pure sphagnum peat and pour through cheese cloth or old T-shirt,and make your own black water extract.

 

[zozo]

I seem to be under interrogation here!

In the 3th video from above they checked and measured the Rio Negro flood areas etc. parameters where these wild Discus are caught.

Not always blackwater biotope, oftenly also very clear water low in tanins, but always very clean (low bioload) and very poor in minerals.
in average
< 20 µS
pH 4 to 5
29 to 30°C water temp

But thats the seasonal high water measurments in the shallow forest flood areas, only few months a year starting november they are neted in large groups. After water level has dropped again and only the main stream holds water they only can be caught by hand in very dark nights and very clear water with a small net and a flashlight at the shores in the marginal growth hiding places

. It is said, the low conductivity of the water makes it possible to use a flashlight bellow water to find them. So this tells the conductivity doesn't realy change that much during the seasons. Other parameters are not mentioned.. But i guess the main stream probaly will be a bit colder than the slower flowing shallows during the flood.

So it doesn't say you need to keep wilds like that.. 🙂 but it can't be wrong if you do..

 

[sciencefiction]

I seem to be under interrogation here! for wanting the best conditions for my fish.

No...not at all.

I would just like to know what your sources are because all my research leads to different temperatures. It is not my business to tell you how to take care of your fish. However you are contradicting my information and I thought you have solid,reliable,time tested, empirical reasons...or whatever word you would like to use. . Do you mind posting specific links? A bunch of forums isnt much useful

The latest post on that topic, Sept' 2016, is about the fish being healthier less lethargic with better appetites at the higher temperature of 84-86F 28.9 - 30C.

I could not see a post frim September..regardless if one bothers to read the entire thread..the consensus is 80-82F...and so is on most similar threads.

 

[KipperSarnie]

I could not see a post frim September..regardless if one bothers to read the entire thread..the consensus is 80-82F...and so is on most similar threads.

Sorry! June 2016 not September


Quote:
"Newbie here. Sounds like that might be the best way for their overall health and growth, but in my case @ 82F one out of seven of my Discus wasn't eating at all, two others were barely picking at food. The non-eater was spitting out food ( going on 3 weeks) was getting ready to treat for Hex until someone said to raise temp to 84F-86F. I raised it to 84.5F and immediately the non-eater started eating, the picky ones were ravenous. This all happened when I got my first group for my 180gal. Yes I did start feeding AL's FDBWs around the same time but I think raising the temp helped save my fish. All my fish are now eating alot and doing well, I feed 3xday."
Quoted reply:
"Kenny, that is what I saw as well but to a lesser extreme. They just were not moving as much and were not showing a lot of interest in food. They ate but not like they do when they are just a bit warmer. One thing I have learned is to watch them they can pretty much let you know if they are not happy.

Here is another quote from the same forum you quoted from:

Quote:

"John, I have seen you post many times that 82 is the only temp to keep Discus at. I am just curious and not trying to stir the pot but every other post I have seen for growing them out is a bit higher than that. When you gave that advice a while back I turned my heaters down and noticed their appetites dropped noticeably. I kept it there for a week to see if they just needed some time to adapt. They did not. I raised it back to 84 and they went back to their hearty appetites. I now keep it there. They are not yet adults but healthy and growing nicely and just seem to do better in warmer water.
I have seen your enviable fish room and I know you are an experienced keeper. Do your tanks stay at 82 even in the warmer weather in Texas?
Again, I am just trying to learn why some seem to do fine at that temp while mine did not thrive and other experienced keepers suggest warmer water as well for growing out juvies. Would really appreciate your thoughts on this"

I do not follow advice Lemming like, I do not believe in the term "Expert" or "Celebrity!" I gather information & make my own decisions, in this case my findings are to keep my Discus at the higher temperature & it seems to work well with my fish.
As of July this year I had not kept fish for 30 years & never Discus, I now have a tank of 10 week old Discus fry & another pair were breeding in the first pictured tank earlier today.
So for me I'm doing something right!

As for links take a look at the sites I listed also take a look at the specialist breeder & retailer sites on the internet for information.

 

[sciencefiction]

Any fish eats more at higher temperatures..no exception...It speeds up their metabolism...
I can not argue about the effect of different temperatures on discus long term...one needs to keep two separate batches from the same litter at different temps in otherwise identical tanks or have many trials and errors over the span of years to see how they turn out..

From what I have read I remain unconvinced discus require those high temperatures...I must dig out some proper papers on the topic...if there are any out there.

 

[sciencefiction]

If i where a rich man.. Deedle didle deedle dum.

Ha.ha. I just spotted that. I love this musical 🙂

 

[zozo]

From what I have read I remain unconvinced discus require those high temperatures...I must dig out some proper papers on the topic...if there are any out there.

If you look up the average temperatures in the amazone region all year round they have 26°C to 32° day temps and oftenly pretty chilly 10°C night temps. Depending on where exactly you are , amazone is a large region it can seasonaly differ quite a bit. I guess this affects also water temps.. 🙂 But hey, i can imagine a Discus keeper beeing over conserned and maybe a bit paranoia sometimes. I regularly visit a local Discus breeder LFS. A gaze a lot at them with aw, but then i look at the prices starting with the regular dull ones at € 37.50 per fish.. If it were me? Me too i probably would sleep next to the tank with one eye open.. That's why i never had them as gorgious as they are, to much for me.. 🙄 Not a fish to boldly experiment with..