Diatoms, green dust algae and melt...

[dIggO]

Hi, I've got a newly set up tank for about 3 months now. It's a 128 liter (80x40x40) Did a Dark start for about 3 weeks till NO2 peak disappeared. Bought plants and had 'm growing for about4 weeks. The first trim session was already necessary by then. I uprooted about half of the species, because of the different growth (and I wanted to get rid of the old growth). Tank was super clean, no algae very fast growth. I thought it was time for some cleaners. So I introduced Oto's, Amano's and Cory's. We are three weeks further and the tank seems to collapse in a weeks time. Lots of diatoms on the Monte Carlo and other plants. It looks like the introducing of the livestock tipped the balance. Any suggestions? I probably overfed the tank? I measure lots of PO4, but I do EI so that's where it probably comes from. Also high in silicates, because of my tapwater...

Info:
Hardware

• Tank 80x40x40 maybe 80 liters without substrate and hardscape
• Chihiros WRGB II on 65% for 6 hours excluding 2x half hour ramp
• Oase 600T with almost 4kg Biohome Ultra
• Substrate:
  • Gravel for hight
  • 2 substrate bags with pondsoil
  • ADA Amazonia v2 without the "tabs"
  • Fine sand on top
• CO2 at 5/6 bubbles/sec (aprox. 0.8 PH drop to 6.5) with reactor and a measured KH of 2.
• Planted Box EI kit for fertilizer. 30ml macro, 30ml micro and 30 ml iron per week.
  • N - 25ppm/week
  • PO4 - 2.5ppm/week
  • K - 20ppm/week
  • Fe - 0.5ppm/week
  • Mg - 2ppm/week
  • SO4 - 3ppm/week

Plants:

• Myriophyllum Guyana (melted)
• Pogostemnon erectus (looking good, but diatoms)
• Limnophila aromatica (looking good, but slower growth)
• Rotala blood red Macrandra (uprooted, replanted, lighter tips now)
• Hydrocotyle Tripartita (looking good)
• Proserpinaca palustris (uprooted, looking good, diatoms, slow growth now)
• Ludwigia Arcuata (uprooted, slow growth now)
• Riccia (on rocks) (looking good with diatoms)
• Ludwigia sp. mini super red (uprooted, looking good, slower growth)
• Bucephalandra brownie purple(melted)

Inhabitants:

• 6 Otocinclus vittatus
• 6 Corydoras Adolfoi
• 5 Amano's
• 10 Chili Rasbora's (Brigittae)

Wil place pics if necessery.
I hope some good advice will help...

 

[Bradders]

Some pics would be really helpful if you could? (Not just because I am being nosey, of course 😉 )

 

[dIggO]

Full tank pic. If details are necessery, I'll take them. The Myriophyllum was in the back right and the Buces in the middle are beyond saviour I guess...
As you can see is the ADA aquasoil coming trough the sand as a result of cleaning the front glass from diatoms...

 

[PARAGUAY]

Diatoms are quite normal in the early stages of a set up and regular water changes will help with that and in general algae, All l know about ADA substrates( l am not a user of them, )is they are very nutrient rich_ ,version 2 maybe less? Probably using EI which is luxury uptake may not have helped or be needed at this stage But overall off the picture looking good and water changes of 30 /40% is the way l would go,and with the clean up crew things should improve IMO.

 

[Tim1343]

I’m sure it’ll balance itself given time. Interested in how you find the flow with 4 kilos of media in the filter compared with the supplied foam etc?

 

[dIggO]

Thank you for your answers! I do hope it's a balance problem. What surprised me was the immediate change after the introduction of livestock and food...
@Tim1343 The flow is great! The Chili's are fun to watch as they struggle with the current at the front of the tank. At the back they can find some protection against the current. But in recent days they seem to enjoy it and get used to it.

 

[bazz]

The flow is great! The Chili's are fun to watch as they struggle with the current at the front of the tank. At the back they can find some protection against the current. But in recent days they seem to enjoy it and get used to it.

I'm afraid I'm not too sure about this, Chilis come from small ponds and very slow moving streams and the fact they are glass surfing could be an indication of stress. Quote 'Filtration does not need to be particularly strong as it mostly hails from sluggish waters and may struggle if there is a fast current.' taken from https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/boraras-brigittae/.
Cheers!

 

[_Maq_]

The loss of balance was caused not by fish but by uprooting of plants. Many substances which belong to the substrate but not to the water column evolved, that's it. You'll see it next time when you touch your substrate again.

 

[dIggO]

The loss of balance was caused not by fish but by uprooting of plants. Many substances which belong to the substrate but not to the water column evolved, that's it. You'll see it next time when you touch your substrate again.

Thank you for your answer Maq.
Hmmm, OK. So how do we get rid of old emersed growth then? Or do we accept the consequences?
Now it's a waiting game for the diatoms and algae to disappear?

 

[_Maq_]

Hmmm, OK. So how do we get rid of old emersed growth then?

I think it'll be hard. To me, your substrate looks like a bag full of problems. I never employ substrates that rich.
Perhaps someone more experienced in hi-tech and rich substrates can advise?

 

[PARAGUAY]

Any substrate disturbance should be followed by a water change

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Diatoms are quite normal in the early stages of a set up and regular water changes will help with that and in general algae, All l know about ADA substrates( l am not a user of them, )is they are very nutrient rich_ ,version 2 maybe less? Probably using EI which is luxury uptake may not have helped or be needed at this stage

What @PARAGUAY says.

I measure lots of PO4, but I do EI so that's where it probably comes from. Also high in silicates, because of my tapwater...

Just ignore whatever the <"phosphate (PO4---) test"> tells you, you can get reasonably accurate values via semi-quantitative titrimetric methods (something like the <"JBL low range test kit">), but they still don't tell you anything useful.

Silicate content is a <"total red herring"> in terms of diatom growth, they <"need a source of orthosilicic acid">, but diatoms are universal in freshwater, because they are so effective at sequestering plant available silicon (Si). I'm pretty sure they will go away with time.

Oase 600T with almost 4kg Biohome Ultra

The flow is great!

You definitely don't need <"that much Biohome">, but it probably <"isn't doing any harm">, because of the <"shape of the noodles">.

I'll be honest, I don't have a lot of time for the sellers of <"premium biomedia" or "test kits">, they often use language designed to obscure what the product actually does and its limitations.

To me, your substrate looks like a bag full of problems. I never employ substrates that rich.

I'm not sure, personally I'd try reducing the fertiliser input before I did anything too drastic. I like a floating plant as both <"nutrient depeleter and nutrient indicator">. <"The advantage "floating"> has is that the plants have access to <"atmospheric CO2">.

cheers Darrel

 

[dIggO]

Thanks again for the help!
So I conclude:
Stop or reduce EI? (If reduce by how much? Wil be incorporated in schedule below)
And what to do with the CO2? "As is" or also decrease?
Leave light for what it is?

I started a new schedule this weekend:

• Sunday water change 25%
• Monday normal dose of EI fert
• Tuesday normal dose of EI fert
• Wednesday 25% water change
• Thursday normal dose of EI fert
• Friday normal dose of EI fert
• No action on Saturday

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I started a new schedule this weekend:

• Sunday water change 25%
• Monday normal dose of EI fert
• Tuesday normal dose of EI fert
• Wednesday 25% water change
• Thursday normal dose of EI fert
• Friday normal dose of EI fert
• No action on Saturday

I'd probably see how that goes first before changing anything else. If you still aren't happy in a month's time?

Stop or reduce EI?

I'd carry on feeding the plants, just start by halving? the volume of fertiliser added. Your plants can only make use of the extra CO2 you've added if the mineral nutrients <"aren't limiting plant growth">.

Leave light for what it is?

You already have a short light period, I definitely wouldn't go any shorter, it is really difficult to judge light intensity but I might try another two hours of light (so nine hours including your ramp up and down).

cheers Darrel

 

[dIggO]

Thanks @dw1305 !
I only changed the light schedule. Upped it for 1 hour.

The tank looks horrible today when the lights came on! It doesn't even look like the pic above... The Prosperninaca is melting too... I dumped the Buces... The Rotala and the Ludwigia are still strong.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Sorry to hear that.

I dumped the Buces...

We think that Aroids (Bucephalandra, Cryptocoryne, Anubias, Schismatoglottis spp.) are prone to melting in new set ups partially because of their <"inability to survive high ammonia levels">.

cheers Darrel

 

[PARAGUAY]

That's seems to happen,certain plants don't always thrive in a new set and the stems seem to be the ones doing well. Not got Buce but maybe adding later might be best,how about a load more stem plants for now

 

[dIggO]

That's seems to happen,certain plants don't always thrive in a new set and the stems seem to be the ones doing well. Not got Buce but maybe adding later might be best,how about a load more stem plants for now

I ordered some last weekend and waiting for it to arrive. I'm also thinking of temporarely placing some very fast growers like Elodea Densa and slowly remove them when the tank is matured...

 

[dIggO]

Is this getting out of hand?

 

[Bradders]

Could you send a good picture (or video) of your whole tank, please, @dIggO? Just want to get a 'feel'.