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CO2 & Light Demands
- Thread starter skeletonw00t
- Start date
Hi all,
I can't help with the CO2 distribution, but the dirty look is definitely a short algal "turf". You would need to look at it a lot more closely, but it looks like it might be the combination of Rhizoclonium and Diatoms. Your plants do look a bit yellow as well, which is often caused by lack of nitrogen.
Personally I'd add some floating plants, dose a little bit more KNO3 and then wait and I'm pretty sure it will go away after a couple of months. You could also try some snails, I know they aren't universally popular but the combination of MTS and Red Ramshorn Snails is very effective at surface cleaning.
cheers Darrel
I can't help with the CO2 distribution, but the dirty look is definitely a short algal "turf". You would need to look at it a lot more closely, but it looks like it might be the combination of Rhizoclonium and Diatoms. Your plants do look a bit yellow as well, which is often caused by lack of nitrogen.
Personally I'd add some floating plants, dose a little bit more KNO3 and then wait and I'm pretty sure it will go away after a couple of months. You could also try some snails, I know they aren't universally popular but the combination of MTS and Red Ramshorn Snails is very effective at surface cleaning.
cheers Darrel
None of those shots show how you are distributing the flow. Having high flow rates is not enough, it must be distributed properly....
Cheers,
Cheers,
skeletonw00t
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CO2 & Light Demands
Flow is distributed via a standard filter intake & outlet (no spraybar) the outtake is placed at the top right - facing the left of the tank.
Also at the top right is a koralia nano - both are blowing in the same direction. Ill upload a video of the flow shortly
Flow is distributed via a standard filter intake & outlet (no spraybar) the outtake is placed at the top right - facing the left of the tank.
Also at the top right is a koralia nano - both are blowing in the same direction. Ill upload a video of the flow shortly
skeletonw00t
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Ok a video of my flow is here:
Apologies for the TV - my girlfriend was watching One Born Every Minute :/
Apologies for the TV - my girlfriend was watching One Born Every Minute :/
Yeah, I knew the ending before I saw the movie. I advise to rework your distribution. Try a spraybar. Right-to-left dissipates flow badly and flow from the powerheads crash into flow from the filter outlet. At least if you don't like the spraybar then you should have all the filter and pump effluent pointing from back to front instead of across the length of the tank. It's not always necessary to have this configuration, but it's always a good place to start.
Cheers,
Cheers,
skeletonw00t
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CO2 & Light Demands
Ah ok thanks Ceg. I thought the way i am doing it was the best way?
I have a glass lilly pipe - think I should try that? I used it very briefly before - it creates a flow thatsort of shoots down towards the middle of the tank.
Also if I switch to lilly pipes - where would you recommend placing the powerhead?
Ah ok thanks Ceg. I thought the way i am doing it was the best way?
I have a glass lilly pipe - think I should try that? I used it very briefly before - it creates a flow thatsort of shoots down towards the middle of the tank.
Also if I switch to lilly pipes - where would you recommend placing the powerhead?
You can see the co2 bubbles flying across the tank at around mid level. Flow looks good in the top half of the water column. Unfortunately, you want it like that at the substrate.
Running the outlet across the length of the tank means by the time it hits the opposite wall it has lost a lot of momentum. Using a spraybar from the back to front will ensure enough velocity to hit the front and get the co2 down to the substrate where it is required. There is hardly any movement in your tennelus (if it is) in the center of the tank.
Running the outlet across the length of the tank means by the time it hits the opposite wall it has lost a lot of momentum. Using a spraybar from the back to front will ensure enough velocity to hit the front and get the co2 down to the substrate where it is required. There is hardly any movement in your tennelus (if it is) in the center of the tank.
Exactly. I don't really like lilly pipes so I abandoned them years ago. This is not to say that they do not work but If I were you I would first try the spraybars. They are cheap and easy. Even if later on you don't like the aesthetics at least you will get to understand flow in your tank.
Ideally, if you had strong enough filters you would use a configuration like this that stretches all the way across the length of the tank:
This is the surest way to get flow to that tangle of weeds on the right side of the tank.
Cheers,
Ideally, if you had strong enough filters you would use a configuration like this that stretches all the way across the length of the tank:
This is the surest way to get flow to that tangle of weeds on the right side of the tank.
Cheers,
skeletonw00t
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CO2 & Light Demands
I really dont like spraybars - they are well ugly :/
Is there any other way i could do this?
I really dont like spraybars - they are well ugly :/
Is there any other way i could do this?
skeletonw00t
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CO2 & Light Demands
What ive done is pointed the powerhead downwards - so its still pointing the same way as the filter outlet - but its just shooting down towards the javafern a bit.
Might mix it up a bit lol.
Tbh planted tanks are a bit of a stress. Am planning a rescape without plants i think - im sure i can create a stylish scape without any of the stresses!
What ive done is pointed the powerhead downwards - so its still pointing the same way as the filter outlet - but its just shooting down towards the javafern a bit.
Might mix it up a bit lol.
Tbh planted tanks are a bit of a stress. Am planning a rescape without plants i think - im sure i can create a stylish scape without any of the stresses!
plantbrain
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skeletonw00t said:
I abandoned the spray bar a long time ago. Not fond of the lily pipe either.
skeletonw00t
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CO2 & Light Demands
What method do you use?
What method do you use?
Yes they are very ugly and as pointed out by Tom, they are not a "necessity". As long as you have excellent flow throughput from the filter, which I'm pretty sure Tom has (right Tom?), then you'll be OK. The problem is that you don't have sufficient flow through the filter to overcome the distance of the length of the tank. Tom's CO2 diffusion method may also differ. Are you using a needle wheel impeller on that tank Tom? There are lots of different ways to skin a cat, but the cat should have the skin you're looking for...
Cheers,
Cheers,
skeletonw00t
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CO2 & Light Demands
I thought when you had 100% dissolved co2 you didnt need to worry about flow as much as you didn't need to get the bubbles everywhere & water would flow there anyway?
I think Ceg that as my plant mass has increased its stifled flow somewhat from when the tank first started - even with the use of a powerhead.
Not really sure what i can do to create better flow though - i tried pointing both the powerhead & the filter outlet to the front glass but this did not seem to create a strong current.
I thought when you had 100% dissolved co2 you didnt need to worry about flow as much as you didn't need to get the bubbles everywhere & water would flow there anyway?
I think Ceg that as my plant mass has increased its stifled flow somewhat from when the tank first started - even with the use of a powerhead.
Not really sure what i can do to create better flow though - i tried pointing both the powerhead & the filter outlet to the front glass but this did not seem to create a strong current.
Hi mate,
You don't have 100% dissolved CO2, and, 90% of what CO2 you do have goes straight out the top of the tank to add to the greenhouse effect on the planet. We've already given you an easy solution but it's not pretty enough for you. That crud on the bottom of the tank looks a lot uglier than spraybars though. If it were me, I would solve the plant health problem first while I work on an more aesthetic way to achieve the goal.
Cheers,
You don't have 100% dissolved CO2, and, 90% of what CO2 you do have goes straight out the top of the tank to add to the greenhouse effect on the planet. We've already given you an easy solution but it's not pretty enough for you. That crud on the bottom of the tank looks a lot uglier than spraybars though. If it were me, I would solve the plant health problem first while I work on an more aesthetic way to achieve the goal.
Cheers,
skeletonw00t
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CO2 & Light Demands
Ok i'll dig out a spraybar i think i have one.
I just cant see how thats going to create a strong enough though as i tried pointing the outlet to the front and this created next to know current around the plants :/
Also - isn't co2 injected into the filter 100% disolved? My DC is yellow still at the bottom of the tank.
Should i set my spraybar up so that it points straight down perhaps!?
Ok i'll dig out a spraybar i think i have one.
I just cant see how thats going to create a strong enough though as i tried pointing the outlet to the front and this created next to know current around the plants :/
Also - isn't co2 injected into the filter 100% disolved? My DC is yellow still at the bottom of the tank.
Should i set my spraybar up so that it points straight down perhaps!?
But didn't you say that you had a bunch of powerheads? What spyder and I were trying to explain to you was that the total combined energy of your pumps and filter are best served if they all point in the same direction. Secondly, we were saying that the best direction to point all that energy was from the back wall to the front glass. They should all be pointing straight ahead. These were the key points because the distance from back to front is much shorter than the distance from left to right. The front glass deflects the flow downward and the substrate deflects it towards the back where the plants are. So the trick is basically sneaking the flow from underneath the plants, broadside. you can get a much more even flow from underneath and as the current rises the CO2 makes contact for a longer time. This is the opposite of what you have now where the co2 enriched water is mostly above the plants and the gas escapes upwards, not downwards, so your contact time is very poor. So it doesn't matter how much concentration you have if the water does not touch the leaf for very long.
Space the powerheads and spraybar evenly across the back wall along the top and point all flow horizontal towards the front glass. Do not point the holes or the pumps downwards as this defeats the scheme. We are using the glass to route the water underneath the bottom leaves because that is where the plants are mostly starved.
It's OK if this setup is too ugly. Right now just solve the problem. You may need to invest in a stronger filter which you can then use in the original configuration, and this stronger filter may have enough muscle to work the way Tom's setup shows. But you are not there yet, so this is as good as you can get for now. Again, you may have to play with the placement of the pumps. You may have to mount them mostly towards the right side instead of having them evenly space across the length. Try to get the leaves gently swaying in the current the setup that generates the most motion will most likely generate the best flow through the plant beds. This is what you need to concentrate on.
Cheers,
Space the powerheads and spraybar evenly across the back wall along the top and point all flow horizontal towards the front glass. Do not point the holes or the pumps downwards as this defeats the scheme. We are using the glass to route the water underneath the bottom leaves because that is where the plants are mostly starved.
It's OK if this setup is too ugly. Right now just solve the problem. You may need to invest in a stronger filter which you can then use in the original configuration, and this stronger filter may have enough muscle to work the way Tom's setup shows. But you are not there yet, so this is as good as you can get for now. Again, you may have to play with the placement of the pumps. You may have to mount them mostly towards the right side instead of having them evenly space across the length. Try to get the leaves gently swaying in the current the setup that generates the most motion will most likely generate the best flow through the plant beds. This is what you need to concentrate on.
Cheers,
skeletonw00t
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CO2 & Light Demands
Ok thanks i'll try the spraybar set up.
However, i dont think any filter will let me run it in the normal way like Toms... My filter is 1500litre/hr & i also have a 1500litre/hr powerhead that is already pointing in the same direction as the filter.... So i'd need a filter with over 3000litr/hr to get good results?
Ok thanks i'll try the spraybar set up.
However, i dont think any filter will let me run it in the normal way like Toms... My filter is 1500litre/hr & i also have a 1500litre/hr powerhead that is already pointing in the same direction as the filter.... So i'd need a filter with over 3000litr/hr to get good results?
