Cloudy Water Hazy Water and Algae!

[AquariusPeter]

Hi,
After some years of break i just wanted to come back to this hobby. I don't really know where to put my thread as it a lot of aspects regarding with it so i try maybe here in water chemistry.

If there is someone who could help me i would be really gratefull. Before i describe my problems with my tank i first describe it quite in details.

Tank Details:

Superfish Scaper 90

Size: 60x40x38cm - 38cm Height - Volume = 90Litres

Gravel: Dennerle grey gravel (i wanted black but gray was only in stock)

Light: LED light from Superfish 32W plus (Small 14W LED as well from Superfish which is Off actually) just in case if it was to less light. 7hrs photoperiod 15-22:00 Aquarium is standing in darker place not any daylight come inside.

Filtration: JBL e702 Only Sponges, and about 1 week ago i decided to buy Fluval 107. Both running. Fluval 107 one basket has a Biomax.

Water: RO bought from one of near Aquatic shop i mineralise this but i will describe later.

Minerals: Dennerle Shrimp King Gh/Kh+

Water changes: around 20% weekly

CO2: not yet

Flora:
Ludwigia Palustris Super Red,
Altenanthera mini super red(?),
Microsorium Narrow,
Cryptocorynes(Becketti?),
Micranthemum Monte Carlo,
Limnophila Sessiliflora,
Rotala Green,
Hottonia Palustris,
Hygrophila Corymbosa or polysperma not sure,
Hygrophila pinnatafida

Fauna:
Pair of apistos - mc masteri

1xorange platy
3x blue platies - but in my opinion they might Mollies cause they are bigger than orange platty
Some of shrimps mixed colors

Problems:

Before i describe my problems i just want to mention my RO water is checked by local shop with the TDS meter which usually 0-2. I am buying this in my hired 15ltrs tanks and there is only RO water. I have My TDS as well and before every water change i measure and values are usually 0-2 TDS.

I use minerals from Dennerle Shrimp King Gh+/Kh+ to mineralise my RO.
After some time using these minerals i decided to write to Dennerle company regarding with ratio Ca to Mg.

They Answer:
Hello Peter, the ratio Ca:Mg is about 6:1
Results at 1.5g/10l :
Ca=32.8mg/l
Mg=5.4mg/l

Further Elements:
Cations: Natrium, Potassium
Anions: Chlorine, Sulfate
Hydrogene Carbonates

Now: To do some corrections and having ratio 4:1 Ca:Mg i decided to buy MgSo4*7H2O to add it a bit more to have ratio 4:1

According to my calculations:
I am using Dennerle Shrimp King Gh+/Kh+ :
0.9g/~10l of RO

This gives me:
Ca- 19.68 mg/l
Mg-3.24 mg/l

From MgSO4*7H2O i calculated to add:
~0.18-0.2/10l to achieve 1.68mg/l

then Mg from Shrimp king 3.24 + 1.68 =4.92

Now 19.68/4.92 = 4

So Ca:Mg 4:1 and TDS with these values shows me ~160ppm and
Gh= ~8
Kh= 2

But having a problems with Algaes still.... i decided to ask Dennerle how much is potassium but they didn't answered because of the company secret...

So i decided to buy Potassium test. I have done tests when added minerals to 10l RO and potassium is about ~5mg/l or more. I can't precise... Test from JBL.


Now let me describe my problem. For 3-4 weeks (maybe more) i have problem and i am challenging with Hazy/Cloudy/milky??? but this happens when the light is off. After some Light come On then after few hours this cloudiness coming off and the water is clear.

Fertilisers what i have been using are Aquadip Nitro, Potassium, Fosfo. I have been told aquadip is the same as Easy Life but they have or changed on new name.
Nitro -KNO3
Potassium- K2So4
Fosfo- KH2PO4

Well... during past months i just been adding them in proportions like 10:1:20.... but Potassium has been accumulated...

Yesterday I have been doing water change like around 50%. And decided and less proportion of minerals from Shrimp King Gh/Kh+ and from MgSO4*7H2O.

I just simply added less minerals but to keep proportion Ca-Mg 4:1.

Today after 24hrs i have checked the water parameters and my results are:

NO3 = 10mg/l -Salifert test

PO4= 0.1-0.2 mg/l -JBL test

K= more than 15mg/l -JBL test

Fe= 0mg/l About Micro, i don't add because when i only add i have straight green dust on the glass.

Gh= 5

Kh= 2

TDS showed me today 129ppm

In General describing my problem is i have green dusts on glass, green dots on leaves, plants, green algaes on wood, and if i am not mistaken i have green hair algaes and the coming from that green dots, and green dust.... Whenever i wipe the glass the coming back...

If anyone of you guys could help me to sort it out these problems i will be very thankfull... I love planted aquariums and i don't really want to give up... but this situation makes me down and tired...

My opinion is Ca:Mg:K is wrong ratio maybe... because I set up Ca:Mg 4:1 but i still am not sure how much of potassium is in total.... Everytime when i do the tests is more than 15mg/l. That could be a reason because i was fertilising with KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4 from Aquadip they are excatly the same like Easy Life Nitro, Potassium-Kallium, Fosfo... During past when i have been fertilising the K might be accumulated...

during Fertilising N : P i was trying to keep 10:1 proportion... but Adding N i adding Potasium as well from KNO3....

CO2 for the moment is not connected because what i am trying to do. I am trying to learn without CO2.

Regarding Hazy/Cloudy maybe Milky water.... I was thinking about bacteria bloom, but if it was bacterial bloom i would have constantly cloudy water even during photoperiod. But when light is on after some time water is crystalizing....

Every water change i am adding some more bacteria... On the beginning i was thinking maybe it is bacteria bloom and it was a short time i didn't change water for about 2 weeks to let them work properly... but this problem is still with me...

After yesterday water change - today again light on cloudy, after ~1hr water crystal. Also yesterday i decided to cut off affected plants... but not too much, i would like to save them somehow... I was thinking about maybe just increase PO4 ??

Maybe i should change on the other minerals?

I am still learning and learning maybe i do sth wrong about fertilising

I attach some photos

Thank you and sorry if i put this thread in wrong category

Best Regards

Peter

 

[Bradders]

Hello,

Quick question first: how long has the JBL been running on the tank as part of the cycle? Also, your new Fluval would not have cycled in 1 week, so that is not going to be effective yet.

I'll leave the question about chemicals/fertilisers to the experts here - I am not one of them! But my current advice would be to pause everything and get stable with the basics. There does seem to be a lot you are doing/adding and hard to get a reading on what could be causing the problem.

 

[John q]

Hello @AquariusPeter

It's fantastic you've provided so many important details, most don't, this should make the solution easy.... however.

Can't answer the direct question right now (I've been on my works Xmas party) I'm slurring.. that said... I suspect the salty shrimp king contains lots of potassium bicarbonate. Why... their product raises kh & gh. Potassium bicarbonate would be the cheapest option in my opinion.

Is this the reason the tank is failing, probably not. But to answer one of your questions, salty fancy shrimp additive contains K.

 

[sparkyweasel]

3x blue platies - but in my opinion they might Mollies

Those are Platies; Blue Mickey Mouse Platies to be precise.

I would try increasing the size and/or frequency of your water changes while your tank matues some more.
hth

 

[AquariusPeter]

Hello,

Quick question first: how long has the JBL been running on the tank as part of the cycle? Also, your new Fluval would not have cycled in 1 week, so that is not going to be effective yet.

I'll leave the question about chemicals/fertilisers to the experts here - I am not one of them! But my current advice would be to pause everything and get stable with the basics. There does seem to be a lot you are doing/adding and hard to get a reading on what could be causing the problem.

Hi,
Jbl e702 is working since August but the only small change what I have done is I just remove that ceramic bioballs... they caused water white bit. So I replace for sponges.

To fluval yesterday I added that biomax.

I forgot mentioned in my post about we did some restarts because of the algae. But all filter cycle has been running during restart in a big barrel with the same water.

I know in my details it might be bit chaos I was trying describe everything what was in my minds Step by step.

 

[Bradders]

Hello

Jbl e702 is working since August but the only small change what I have done is I just remove that ceramic bioballs... they caused water white bit. So I replace for sponges.

When did you remove the bioballs?

I forgot mentioned in my post about we did some restarts because of the algae. But all filter cycle has been running during restart in a big barrel with the same water.

What do you mean you've done some restarts? Can you provide more detail, please?

 

[AquariusPeter]

Hello @AquariusPeter

It's fantastic you've provided so many important details, most don't, this should make the solution easy.... however.

Can't answer the direct question right now (I've been on my works Xmas party) I'm slurring.. that said... I suspect the salty shrimp king contains lots of potassium bicarbonate. Why... their product raises kh & gh. Potassium bicarbonate would be the cheapest option in my opinion.

Is this the reason the tank is failing, probably not. But to answer one of your questions, salty fancy shrimp additive contains K.

Hi,

Thank you for all your responds guys. Any help will be useful.

You are saying about Salty Shrimps... but mine are from Dennerle Shrimp King Gh/Kh+

I am considering fact to move on Salty Bee shrimp Gh+ but I want to wait what the others will tell Mr about my problems

 

[AquariusPeter]

Those are Platies; Blue Mickey Mouse Platies to be precise.

I would try increasing the size and/or frequency of your water changes while your tank matues some more.
hth

Thank you for precise 😃

 

[AquariusPeter]

Hello

When did you remove the bioballs?


What do you mean you've done some restarts? Can you provide more detail, please?

Yes of course the last restart was in October. We have changed the gravel.
And with that restart I just remove those bioballs. I put coarse sponges instead.

So now my jbl e702 has only sponges.
1 week ago when I have done water changes I just rinsed them a bit in a waste water bucket.

In July on the beginning I tried this aquarium on garden soil and the gravel on top .... but I didn't like it and then we quickly swap it with gravel and under gravel I put some substrate from jbl flora aqubasis.

But after few months challenging with algae we have done in October restart and I decided to put only gravel, and learn the basics of fertilising water column.

And then as you can see, I am still challenging with algae...

By every restart I used some water from the old aquarium but just to keep cycle. And that is it.

I just suppose to mentioned In my first thread but I was completely lost in my mind to provide as much info as I can/could

Sorry about chaos .

 

[John q]

but mine are from Dennerle Shrimp King Gh/Kh+

cool, my bad Dennerle shrimp king also raises kh & gh (their website mentions increased carbonates) so suspect they also use K2CO3. 😋

 

[AquariusPeter]

cool, my bad Dennerle shrimp king also raises kh & gh (their website mentions increased carbonates) so suspect they also use K2CO3. 😋

Hydrogene Carbonates

As I mentioned in my first thread they are using Hydrogene Carbonated according to Dennerle answer on my question about ratio Ca:Mg. 😃

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I'd guess that <"both your cloudy water"> and plant growth issues are related to the non-availability of iron (Fe), that is what has caused the white (chlorotic) new growth in the picture below.

Have a look at <"What is the “Duckweed Index” all about?"> and the subsequent posts. It will take a while after plant available iron is present before growth improves.

Before i describe my problems i just want to mention my RO water is checked by local shop with the TDS meter which usually 0-2. I am buying this in my hired 15ltrs tanks and there is only RO water. I have My TDS as well and before every water change i measure and values are usually 0-2 TDS.

I use minerals from Dennerle Shrimp King Gh+/Kh+ to mineralise my RO

Which fertiliser are you using? You don't say. Have a look at <"Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Coir TEC Combination">. Plants need all <"fourteen of the essential plant nutrients"> for growth.

If you are using RO it is pointless to then add a lot of hardness and alkalinity. The companies that make "remineralising salts" want to sell your their product, but I'm going to assume you have hard tap water? (you can get accurate water parameters from your water company) you can just <"use a dash of tap water">.

Also I'd stop putting too much reliance on <"what your test kits tell you">. There are <"issues with a lot of the test kits"> we buy and plant growth is a much more sensitive indicator of whether nutrients are available.

cheers Darrel

 

[AquariusPeter]

Hi all,
I'd guess that <"both your cloudy water"> and plant growth issues are related to the non-availability of iron (Fe), that is what has caused the white (chlorotic) new growth in the picture below. Have a look at <"What is the “Duckweed Index” all about?"> and the subsequent posts. It will take a while after plant available iron is present before growth improves.

View attachment 213831

Which fertiliser are you using? you don't say. Have a look at <"Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Coir TEC Combination">. Plants need all <"fourteen of the essential plant nutrients"> for growth.

If you are using RO it is pointless to then add a lot of hardness and alkalinity. The companies that make "remineralising salts" want to sell your their product, but I'm going to assume you have hard tap water? (you can get accurate water parameters from your water company) you can just <"use a dash of tap water">.

Also I'd stop putting too much reliance on <"what your test kits tell you">. There are <"issues with a lot of the test kits"> we buy and plant growth is a much more sensitive indicator of whether nutrients are available.

cheers Darrel

Hi, Thank you for your responds.

Micro what i have and what I have been using a bit is Seachem Flourish Comprehensive.

I still have it... but when I add it ... Green dust appering on the glass..
Now I am confused because there is a lot information about deficiencies and one sources saying it might be deficiency of Nitro or Fe.

Well I can try to add some of this Iron from flourish comprehensive. But I am afraid that green dust will be again and again.. Plus those green threads algaes...

I don't use tap water, because when I check full report of quality water it is Hard, I measured from tests kh is 7 gh 15.
And my tap water has more than 40 NO3 and more than 2.3 PO4 ... especially during spring sommer time.

So I decided to try with RO mineralised with minerals. I have choosen those from Dennerle Shrimp King gh/kh+ . But them after some time I decided to write to them to get to know about Ca:Mg ratio and according their answer is 6:1.

So I decided to increase some Magnesium from MgSO4×7H2O to make results of ratio 4:1.

I don't know maybe my calculations are but or sth.

When I was trying to set iron on 0.08 according to calculator from ukaps.org I have more algaes like green dust...

Even before my last water change I didn't add iron. I added 2 days before water change. So on the next day I had green dust and I added around 15 drops with pipette. It was maybe around 1ml.

And the day before yesterday I decided to do bigger water change seeing this what is happening. . .

I am losing my mind sometimes what i do wrong...

Best regards

Peter

 

[_Maq_]

I don't use tap water, because when I check full report of quality water it is Hard, I measured from tests kh is 7 gh 15.

Very well. let me invite you to the company of full remineralizers.
Now it's about time to mineralize your water the way you need it and not the way which fits to manufacturers of commercial remineralizers/fertilizers. I can assure you: they are both expensive and poor.
One example: Some say that there is a need for keeping alkalinity (bicarbonate content, basically) at certain level. I don't think so, but let be it. The most natural way to add alkalinity is CaCO3, calcium carbonate. Unfortunately, this compound is poorly (slowly) soluble, and when you add powdered CaCO3, the water looks cloudy for several hours. Not to disturb customers, commercial manufacturers avoid CaCO3 and replace it by perfectly soluble sodium- or potassium (bi)carbonates. WRONG. Because you get excess sodium or potassium.
I could provide more examples. The only way to make perfect water is to learn to do it oneself using individual chemicals. Among commercial fertilizers, I rather like @dw1305's Solufeed, but even that is not truly complete nor perfectly balanced.

 

[AquariusPeter]

Very well. let me invite you to the company of full remineralizers.
Now it's about time to mineralize your water the way you need it and not the way which fits to manufacturers of commercial remineralizers/fertilizers. I can assure you: they are both expensive and poor.
One example: Some say that there is a need for keeping alkalinity (bicarbonate content, basically) at certain level. I don't think so, but let be it. The most natural way to add alkalinity is CaCO3, calcium carbonate. Unfortunately, this compound is poorly (slowly) soluble, and when you add powdered CaCO3, the water looks cloudy for several hours. Not to disturb customers, commercial manufacturers avoid CaCO3 and replace it by perfectly soluble sodium- or potassium (bi)carbonates. WRONG. Because you get excess sodium or potassium.
I could provide more examples. The only way to make perfect water is to learn to do it oneself using individual chemicals. Among commercial fertilizers, I rather like @dw1305's Solufeed, but even that is not truly complete nor perfectly balanced.

Hi, Thank you all guys for your responds.

Do you know where I could get that solufeed? Because it is sth new I never heard it.

I was thinking about to change salts on Salty shrimp Bee as they raising Gh but Kh is very little values like 0.06kh. Maybe that could be solution.

 

[John q]

Do you know where I could get that solufeed?

TEC Sodium Free

A carefully formulated, balanced chelated micronutrient source for hydroponics and fertigation. NEW IMPROVED FORMULATION. Traditional sodium-based

solufeedshop.com

2:1:4 High K 1 kg

A high potassium 15 7 32 3 NPK magnesium trace elements feed to promote flowering and subsequent fruit production. Improves flavour and increases

solufeedshop.com

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi @AquariusPeter
Just cut the RO Water with Tapwater.......as Darrel suggested!
All that fussing about with remineralizing salts and they cost money.
A good Ratio is 75% RO and 25% tap water.....you can increase or decrease as per bespoke preference!

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi @AquariusPeter
Just cut the RO Water with Tapwater.......as Darrel suggested!
All that fussing about with remineralizing salts and they cost money.
A good Ratio is 75% RO and 25% tap water.....you can increase or decrease as per bespoke preference!

I will bet you will not have many plant problems if you went down the above route!
hoggie

 

[AquariusPeter]

TEC Sodium Free

A carefully formulated, balanced chelated micronutrient source for hydroponics and fertigation. NEW IMPROVED FORMULATION. Traditional sodium-based

solufeedshop.com

2:1:4 High K 1 kg

A high potassium 15 7 32 3 NPK magnesium trace elements feed to promote flowering and subsequent fruit production. Improves flavour and increases

solufeedshop.com

So is that one like all in one fertiliser? Hiw to dissolved in the water is there any calculator?

 

[AquariusPeter]

Hi @AquariusPeter
Just cut the RO Water with Tapwater.......as Darrel suggested!
All that fussing about with remineralizing salts and they cost money.
A good Ratio is 75% RO and 25% tap water.....you can increase or decrease as per bespoke preference!

Hi, Thank you all guys for your help.

I was thinking about it to try to mixing RO with tap water as well.

Does anyone maybe know if I could get that solufeed small pack just to try? Like 500g ? Or 250g? I don't really want to buy 1kg carton on the beginning.

I have my water change 2 days ago? Shall I add those micro from flourish comprehensive? Because at the moment my micro is 0.
I was using calculator from this site I know how to use it but I don't know really what amount should I set on the beginning ?

The reason I am asking is I want to keep those plants alive till next water change ?

I would very gratefull for any help.