Thank you I will give these a watch
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Cherry shrimp dying off gradually
- Thread starter Anomander
- Start date
You might also consider starting to feed your shrimp specialist shrimp food that contains all the minerals they need to develop their exoskeleton and moult. GlassGarten do a range, such is mineral junkie bites.
You can feed your shrimps what ever you like. Do not expect any special effects from any food. The products from GlassGarten are certainly good. However, I don't use them myself.
I occasionally feed dried nettle leaves, for example. And I guess there are enough minerals in them.
Since I live in a hard water area, I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that I wouldn't need to consider mineral supplements. My local water report is on the first page of this thread and states my total hardness as CaCO3 is a mean value of 265 mg/l. The Alkalinity as CaCO3 is a mean value of 201 mg/l.
Usually, no further mineral additives are required in the feed. However, they won't do any harm either. Every shrimp feed probably contains all minerals.
Dried leaves are always a good source of food for shrimps. The resulting biofilm is ideal food for shrimps. And don't be afraid of green leaves. They should only be used sparingly.
Very good source: Ripe for Picking: a Guide to Collecting your own Bountiful Botanicals
OK, I currently alternate between Glas Garten Shrimp Dinner 2 and Hikari Shrimp Cuisine every other day.
I've recently added a Cattapa leaf and a couple of alder cones
Your shrimp food is ok. Good brands, good food.
Any oak, walnut or beech leaf does the same trick. Walnut in green, best harvested in summer.
Maf 2500
Member
Regarding the Ca:Mg ratio mentioned above. @Anomander is in hard water area of London. Water report lists Mg as 4.4 mg/l. Calcium is not listed but likely in the ballpark of 100 mg/l based on hardness value and what London water is like. The total Mg added per week via Epsom salt and TNC Complete is approx 3.5 mg/l and with 10% weekly water changes this will tend to stabilise at a maximum of 35 mg/l (in reality will be less as some is used by plants). Add the 4.4 from the water supply and we are at 39.4, lets call it 40, mg/l. Worst case scenario, Ca:Mg ratio is 2.5:1.
After a few weeks of lowered dose of Mg and 25% water changes the situation will be reset and I think it is safe to resume the 3.5 mg/l dose of magnesium. With regular 25% weekly water change and 3.5 ppm Mg addition the maximum it can reach is 4.4 + (3.5 x 4) = 18.4 mg/l. Which would be around 5:1 Ca:Mg ratio. Similarly after a few weeks it will likely be ideal to resume the original fert doses because with 25% water changes added "stuff" can only accumulate to a maximum of 4x the dose rather than 10x the dose with 10% water changes. Therefore it would be safe to resume the original fert and mineral regime after a few weeks, as long as there will be 25% per week water changes. If, on the other hand, you would rather do 10% water changes, then a lower fert dose would be needed. Long term you do not need to do both, just pick one, either up the water change amount to 25% and keep your original fert schedule or go back to 10% water change and reduce ferts/minerals.
After a few weeks of lowered dose of Mg and 25% water changes the situation will be reset and I think it is safe to resume the 3.5 mg/l dose of magnesium. With regular 25% weekly water change and 3.5 ppm Mg addition the maximum it can reach is 4.4 + (3.5 x 4) = 18.4 mg/l. Which would be around 5:1 Ca:Mg ratio. Similarly after a few weeks it will likely be ideal to resume the original fert doses because with 25% water changes added "stuff" can only accumulate to a maximum of 4x the dose rather than 10x the dose with 10% water changes. Therefore it would be safe to resume the original fert and mineral regime after a few weeks, as long as there will be 25% per week water changes. If, on the other hand, you would rather do 10% water changes, then a lower fert dose would be needed. Long term you do not need to do both, just pick one, either up the water change amount to 25% and keep your original fert schedule or go back to 10% water change and reduce ferts/minerals.
November was when I saw the first babies, and started to see a lot more over Christmas. The deaths started about two weeks ago.
I really can't think of anything I changed before the deaths began. Something might occur to me but for now I can't think of one.
This is incredibly helpful, thank you very much indeed
Maf 2500
Member
OK, so:
Natural tap water = 280ppm
Amended tap water = 303ppm
Current tank water = 429ppm
Every week you are adding an additional (303-280) = 23 ppm TDS to the tank.
With 10% water changes you are only removing 2.3ppm of this addition every week.
If no minerals or ferts were consumed by plants and this continued for several months the total addition to TDS will be very close to 230ppm. Add that to the TDS of your tap water and we would have 510ppm. Obviously you have plants and they have been consuming some of the ions, but not all of them, and your TDS of 429 makes perfect sense to me in this situation.
Thanks for this analysis, great stuff!
Barbara Turner
Member
Foam filters are pretty terrible, very limited flow and circulation. It's also very easy to over feed.
Combined with small water changes, and I'm guessing your water quality has gradually got worse to the point it's lethal. Don't clean your filters too often as this can kill some of the helpful bacteria.
Stay away from massive water changes as they can also cause problems.
I would be doing 20% water changes, but do the every other day. If you have space and a spare heater, add the prime and let the water stand for 24 hours. Be interesting to see if daphnia can survive in your tank water. If your in a rush you can use a kettle to warm some of the water that's been standing
Combined with small water changes, and I'm guessing your water quality has gradually got worse to the point it's lethal. Don't clean your filters too often as this can kill some of the helpful bacteria.
Stay away from massive water changes as they can also cause problems.
I would be doing 20% water changes, but do the every other day. If you have space and a spare heater, add the prime and let the water stand for 24 hours. Be interesting to see if daphnia can survive in your tank water. If your in a rush you can use a kettle to warm some of the water that's been standing
Andy Pierce
Member
Yeah. Gotta say I don't believe it. People love to talk about ratios but most biochemistry works on the basis of absolute concentrations and not ratios. You might need (making these numbers up) 0.4 uM Ca, and 0.1 uM Mg, but the ratio being 4:1 is neither here nor there. Have a look at enzyme kinetics for example... lots and lots of absolute concentration dependencies and no ratios at all.
Hi all,
I think the important bits are:
cheers Darrel
With the proviso that I'm not interested in optimal plant growth and I'm not a plant physiologist, I tend to agree with this.
I think the important bits are:
- Plants need all of the essential nutrients to grow, that is <"light"> (PAR), <"dissolved inorganic carbon (C)"> and the 14 mineral nutrients.
- Plant growth is like an assembly line, and the rate of growth is controlled by <"Liebig's limiting nutrient">.
- The amount of each nutrient required differs over <"several orders of magnitude">.
- For the micronutrients (trace elements) the difference is between "some" and "none", and that "some" can tip <"over into toxicity">.
- For the macronutrients, more availability means more growth as long as all the above criteria are fulfilled.
- <"Green algae are plants">.
cheers Darrel
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In aquarium practice, ratios of calcium to magnesium of around 2:1 to 4:1 have proven to be effective. Both for plants and shrimps. It simplifies the whole thing considerably.
Andy Pierce
Member
Fine. What is the optimal concentration of calcium?
That depends only on the dGH. And this depends on the available water. A very high dGH and therefore also a high dKH is not necessary, but is usually not harmful for shrimps. You can always lower the dGH with RO water oder rainwater if you want to.
Calcium-To-Magnesium Ratio Calculator For Shrimp Keepers
