Chelated Fe

[Victor]

Chelation is the method by which a valuable chemical is captured and held in handcuffs until that chemical can be transported to it's destination. It is then released at the destination. Normally, the chemical of interest is a metal, which are usually highly reactive.

Hi, Ceg! Do you think glycine is a good metal chelator to a ph between 6 and 7?

 

[ceg4048]

Hi Victor,
I've not used any amino acid chelated products, so I'm not really sure how strong the metal bonds with the amino acid glycine. Generally, amino acids and organic acids such as citric are fairly good chelators and I know that farmers and gardeners use amino acid chelated traces which can be used in soils and for direct foliar uptake (applying directly to the leaf), but how these behave when put in a tank I'm not sure.

If it's available cheaply then it's worth trying. It will be easy to tell if used on fast growing stems. All you have to look for is paling of the new leaves and that will tell you if it's not working. Sounds like a pretty good project.🙂

Cheers,

 

[Victor]

Hi all,
Depending a little bit upon the substrate (it it the REDOX values of the substrate that make a difference, not whether it contains laterite etc.) it may be iron deficiency, but as "Ian_m" says most deficiencies of Fe are actually macro-element (including carbon) deficiencies.

If we assume that the problem is with the hardness of the water, and that the chelated iron is immediately precipitating out of solution (that is the cloudiness), then we need to use a different chelator, one specifically designed for high pH situations. EDTA is the cheapest option, but Fe-DTPA, Fe-EDDHA are better (but more expensive) options. Fe Gluonate would be another option <Fe Gluconate dry powder | UK Aquatic Plant Society>

cheers Darrel

I'm using Fe chelated by glycine (amino acid?). Looking at the chat it has about only 10 % of chelated iron? So, it's the worst option?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I'm using Fe chelated by glycine (amino acid?). Looking at the chat it has about only 10 % of chelated iron? So, it's the worst option?

Theoretically it is the worst option, but plants don't actually need much iron, so it is probably supplying enough. Fe-EDDHA is the best option, but in all likelihood glycine or citric acid will do.

If I was worried about Fe deficiency, and I didn't have access to any form of chelator or complexing agent, I'd make sure I had a thick layer of fine grained substrate (with some organic matter in it), where reduction reactions could occur in anoxic areas, and not worry too much about anything else.

If I had very hard water I'd grow plants like Vallisneria and Ceratophyllum from naturally hard calcium rich environments, and again Fe availability won't be a problem, and if I had really hard water and felt my life would be incomplete without growing plants from very soft water I'd bite the bullet and buy some Fe-EDDHA.

cheers Darrel

 

[Victor]

Perfect! Thank you.

 

[Victor]

Theoretically it is the worst option, but plants don't actually need much iron, so it is probably supplying enough. Fe-EDDHA is the best option, but in all likelihood glycine or citric acid will do

Just one more doubt. If amino acids haven't a strong bond to hold the Fe+2 in water, it will oxidate and become Fe+3. So, the ion Fe+3 will be separated from amino acid (glycine)? If so, the amino acid will decay and produce ammonia?

 

[sciencefiction]

I can't see iron deficiency on the uploaded pictures but for what is worth I have hard water and suffer iron deficiency in several tanks if I don't dose it. In a low tech tank Easy Life Iron dosed 3 times weekly to 0.2ppm each time sorts the problem for me. I am not even sure what type of iron it contains.

It's probably been mentioned but also powdered clay mixed up in the substrate(5-10% max) upon setup also sorts this out for me. I presume the conditions in the substrate are more acidic so iron is in more soluble form.