BGA and Nutrient Deficiency?

[Connswater]

You mean I should consider making the photo period longer?

I think 7 to 8 hours is more realistic to sustain healthy plants. Some of your plants look a bit yellow to me - maybe some Iron rich substrate capsules and laterite pushed in at the roots would give them a boost. BGA I only ever had with high organic load, higher temperatures and excessive light - normally sunlight hitting a light coloured substrate. I would be tempted to increase the lighting intensity and let the surface of your tank cover with floating plants, harvest them a few times down to 30% cover and then, after things are more stable aim for the more photogenic tank, though honestly your tank looks pretty good to me for an immature system. More picture perfect than my mad overgrown tank. Good luck.

 

[Teleos]

You mean I should consider making the photo period longer?

Yes. At least 8 hours of light. You also clean your filter once a week? Is it clogged? If there is flow let the filter do its own thing. As soon as the filter got matured you can do cleaning as often you want. After 72 days nothing in your tank is matured.

 

[Bradders]

Thank you. Lighting is increased.

Yep, floating plants are needed, I think. Time for an order!

 

[Teleos]

I still have a few questions:
How do you calculate the nutrient supply over the period until the next water change? What quantities of N, P and K are you adding to your tank? What amount of Fe and other micronutrients? How many plants will be harvested at the end of the week?

 

[Bradders]

I still have a few questions:
How do you calculate the nutrient supply over the period until the next water change? What quantities of N, P and K are you adding to your tank? What amount of Fe and other micronutrients? How many plants will be harvested at the end of the week?

Hello, ill try to answer your questions as best as a plant novice can!

1. How do you calculate the nutrient supply over the period until the next water change? A mix of supplier (TNC) recommendation based on tank size and advice from Aquascapers.
2. What quantities of N, P and K are you adding to your tank? This all comes from using TNC complete, an all in one consumer solution.
3. What amount of Fe and other micronutrients? This all comes from using TNC complete, an all in one consumer solution.
4. How many plants will be harvested at the end of the week? Depends on growth, its not quick enough to be harvested every week.

 

[Teleos]

Hello, ill try to answer your questions as best as a plant novice can!

1. How do you calculate the nutrient supply over the period until the next water change? A mix of supplier (TNC) recommendation based on tank size and advice from Aquascapers.

Must not be the best advice for a new tank.

1. What quantities of N, P and K are you adding to your tank? This all comes from using TNC complete, an all in one consumer solution.
2. What amount of Fe and other micronutrients? This all comes from using TNC complete, an all in one consumer solution.

I would recalculate the quantities of fertiliser.

1. How many plants will be harvested at the end of the week? Depends on growth, its not quick enough to be harvested every week.

Then it is likely that you are using too much fertiliser. Most plants thrive very well with smaller amounts of fertiliser.

 

[MrClockOff]

Hi All,

It's been around 8 weeks, and I'm starting to have some issues I would appreciate advice on.

1. I have started to get some spots of blue/green algae on the sand. Siphon out, it comes back. Any thoughts?
2. The stem plants are starting to look yellow on older leaves, as seen in the picture. Could this be because they have grown and I need to increase ferts?

Thanks everyone
Brad

==== Details =====

1. Size of tank: 250L
2. Age of the system is approximately: 8 weeks
3. Tap water parameters: All within normal
4. Filtration and Media: Oase 850
5. Lighting and duration: WRGB Pro 2, 30%, 6.5 Hours
6. Substrate: Tropica Aquasoil
7. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing: CO2 Dosing
8. Drop Checker: Lime Green
9. Fertilizers used + Ratios: TNC Complete, 15ml per day
10. Water change regime and composition: Weekly, 50%
11. Plant list + Invitro/Emersed: Amazon Swords, Buce, Anubis etc
12. Inhabitants: 3 Green Neon Rasboars

View attachment 224171
View attachment 224172

Hey @Bradders

I had BGA in all my scapes. It’s usually was getting noticeable after 6th month since scape start and usually disappeared after 2 - 3 month after weakly scrapping it from in between front glass and gravel and being vacuumed. I think it’s always there in my tank but so tiny amounts so I can’t see it anymore.
My advice is not to panic. Just do your regular maintenance and remove it manually as much as you can. Just focus on routine maintenance and it will go away. I’m EI douser and CO2 user. Only thing is that I’m using medium light but I don’t think anything from the above is a factor for BGA.

 

[Bradders]

My advice is not to panic. Just do your regular maintenance and remove it manually as much as you can. Just focus on routine maintenance and it will go away.

Sage advice, and thank you!

Then it is likely that you are using too much fertiliser. Most plants thrive very well with smaller amounts of fertiliser.

I’m EI douser and CO2 user. Only thing is that I’m using medium light

Thank you both. I am going to cut slightly on the ferts. Back to TNC Complete recommendation for EI dosing, which is three times the weekly (standard) dose but split over 7 days. That's about 10ml a day, down from 15ml. Does that sound reasonable?

 

[Teleos]

TNC Complete is a K based fertilizer. NPK = 1.5 - 0.5 - 6 + Mg + celated micronutrients.
They claim "Be sure to change 50% of your water once per week to remove organic waste from the plants.". I would say it is to remove too much nutrients, especially K. What is the N source in TNC? Is it NO3- or NH4+ or urea or all together? They also claim " a balanced blend of Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium". This may be true for a normally stocked tank.

A K+ content of approx. 5 to 10 ppm is necessary for plants to grow. And you need about 10 to 20 ppm NO3- I think TNC Complete adds too much K+ and too little NO3-. The rest is probably ok.

For me, the information on thenutrientcompany's website is not sufficient to be able to judge whether this fertiliser is really suitable. I wouldn't use it.

 

[Bradders]

TNC Complete is a K based fertilizer. NPK = 1.5 - 0.5 - 6 + Mg + celated micronutrients.
They claim "Be sure to change 50% of your water once per week to remove organic waste from the plants.". I would say it is to remove too much nutrients, especially K. What is the N source in TNC? Is it NO3- or NH4+ or urea or all together? They also claim " a balanced blend of Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium". This may be true for a normally stocked tank.

A K+ content of approx. 5 to 10 ppm is necessary for plants to grow. And you need about 10 to 20 ppm NO3- I think TNC Complete adds too much K+ and too little NO3-. The rest is probably ok.

For me, the information on thenutrientcompany's website is not sufficient to be able to judge whether this fertiliser is really suitable. I wouldn't use it.

Blimey. So you are saying TNC is doing more harm then good?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Blimey. So you are saying TNC is doing more harm then good?

No, not really, @Teleos is just suggesting that the nitrogen (N) to potassium (K) in TNC isn't optimal for plant growth.

Personally, I'm not convinced that there is anything wrong with TNC Complete.

Cheers Darrel

 

[Connswater]

Blimey. So you are saying TNC is doing more harm then good?

I have used TNC Complete without problems, but is it an expensive product. NPK 1.5-0.5-6. I have a suspicion, no more than that, that a large dose of Potassium relative to Nitrate is good but how large that dose should be I'll leave to Darrel's expertise.

Chempak Tomato Feed is cheap to use, 11-9-30, again lots of Potassium but probably rather more Phosphate than is ideal. Years ago I used to use Phostrogen (cheap to use) in my tanks, perfectly successfully, I think, NPK 16-10-24, again a little high in Phosphate and also Nitrate. And I don't know the Iron content.

I have very hard tap water, which I soften with rain water but I struggle to keep below 10dKH, TNC has 0.08% Iron, which is very low for me, Chempak Tomato feed is a very satisfying 0.5%.

By way of a comparison Tropica Nutrition Capsules (expensive) are NPK 21-7-11 (osmocote?), too much Nitrate for my liking and too little Potassium, 0.1 Iron.

Miracle Gro (cheap to use) continuous release plant food - osmocote slow release balls: NPK 22-7-14, again for me, too much Nitrate and 0.18% Iron.

Now I like Dibley Streptocarpus plant tablets, NPK 7-10-25, though I wish the Phosphate content was less. Iron is 0.35%. However, the dissolve quickly in water (not osmocote) and so need to be very well buried under sand not gravel.

I bought some unbranded plant capsules (fairly cheap) on Amazon claiming: 17-9-11, still too much Nitrate and Phosphate for me ideally, but a more reassuring NPK than Tropica. 0.22% Iron, which pleased me. Osmocote again so genuinely slow release.

My view after some 55 years in the hobby, is don't buy fertilisers in fish shops, go to the garden centre, but keep an eye out for deficiency signs - Duckweed Index - and for goodness sake don't add so much fertiliser to a CO2 injected tank that you get eutrophication, which in my experience starts with Nitrate somewhere above 60 and Phosphate above 10, possible 5, ppm, but light and temperature come into the equation.

All will happily grow plants and algae. Sorry a little PS - natural waters are considered polluted and at risk of eutrophication at much lower levels of Nitrate and Phosphate, levels in fact so low they are rarely encountered in a fish tank. Actually really low, 1-2 ppm for Nitrate and less than 0.5 for Phosphate. Clean chalk streams in the south of England are full of healthy aquatic plants with really low levels of Nitrate & Phosphate, I am not a scientist, over to Tom Barr I suppose - well probably Darrel - to explain. I don't know the CO2 levels in a chalk stream.

 

[Bradders]

I have very hard tap water, which I soften with rain water but I struggle to keep below 10dKH, TNC has 0.08% Iron, which is very low for me, Chempak Tomato feed is a very satisfying 0.5%.

Reading on here and listening, I am starting to think that iron (low in both TNC and tap water) with my 10 dKH / 15 dGH water could be part of the problem.

 

[Connswater]

iron

I am neither a scientist nor a professional gardener, but dabble! Alkaline conditions demand chelated Iron, I find in the garden magnolias, azaleas and even many grasses and native trees respond well to iron supplementation on mildly alkaline soil. In my fish tanks - which have never had properly soft water since I have lived in southern England, which has been the case since the mid-1980s - I have always found that pale leaves - if there is CO2 measured at a minimum of approximately 20 ppm, when the lights are on and Nitrate at 5-10 ppm - green up with Iron within a week or two.

 

[Bradders]

I am neither a scientist nor a professional gardener, but dabble! Alkaline conditions demand chelated Iron, I find in the garden magnolias, azaleas and even many grasses and native trees respond well to iron supplementation on mildly alkaline soil. In my fish tanks - which have never had properly soft water since I have lived in southern England, which has been the case since the mid-1980s - I have always found that pale leaves - if there is CO2 measured at a minimum of approximately 20 ppm, when the lights are on and Nitrate at 5-10 ppm - green up with Iron within a week or two.

Im a dabbling! 😀

 

[Connswater]

I think this is link is very clear on the central importance of chelated iron in alkaline conditions. It is about terrestrial conditions, but that matters not.

Chelated Iron for Plants - What You Need to Know - Trees.com

If you’ve ever noticed chelated iron being sold at your local plant nursery or hardware store, you may have wondered what it is for, or how it differs from regular iron supplements.

www.trees.com

Keep dabbling!

 

[Teleos]

Blimey. So you are saying TNC is doing more harm then good?

Don`t panic. It's just a discussion.

I expect a fertilizer for aquariums to provide comprehensible information on dosage. I would like to know how much N, P and K are added in ppm or mg/l with which amount of fertilizer. If this information is not provided or has to be laboriously calculated, then I would not use this fertilizer. But you can do anything you like!

 

[bazz]

According to the IFC,

Nitrate (NO₃)	6.64
Phosphate (PO₄)	0.61
Potassium (K)	5.00
Magnesium (Mg)	0.08
Iron (Fe)	0.08

[td width="72px"]9[/td] [td]1.2[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]No Calcium in Clone[/td][td]12[/td][td]0.00[/td] [td]No Carbonate in Clone[/td][td]0.5 dKH[/td][td]~ 0.00 dKH[/td] [td]0.13[/td]

and from the TNC website,

Analysis

1.5-0.5-6
1.5% N, 0.2% P, 5% K, 0.8% Mg, 0.08% Fe, 0.018% Mn, 0.002% Cu, 0.01% B, 0.01% Zn, 0.001% Mo, EDTA

So I don't know 🤷‍♂️ perhaps @Zeus. could enlighten?

 

[Bradders]

So I don't know 🤷‍♂️ perhaps @Zeus. could enlighten?

Indeed, I would like to understand what is correct there as well.

 

[Teleos]

According to the IFC,

Nitrate (NO₃)	6.64
Phosphate (PO₄)	0.61
Potassium (K)	5.00
Magnesium (Mg)	0.08
Iron (Fe)	0.08

[

and from the TNC website,

Analysis

1.5-0.5-6
1.5% N, 0.2% P, 5% K, 0.8% Mg, 0.08% Fe, 0.018% Mn, 0.002% Cu, 0.01% B, 0.01% Zn, 0.001% Mo, EDTA

That is both correct.
Let`s do some calculations about N and NO3:

Nitrate to nitrogen conversion

To convert N to NO3 you have to multiply N by 4.43. Conversely, to convert NO3 to N, multiply NO3 by 0.22. That`s the game.