Barb Island. its all over.

[Antipofish]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

Ian, to be honest, I think that anything other than an FX5 (aka bucket with a pump on it) would fail to have the velocity you require with a tank that size. To that end, have you considered letting the filters do the job they were intended to do, and use alternative methods to create the flow and distribution of CO2 ? I would imagine two or three well positioned korallias at the back of the tank would achieve that side of the equation.

Alternatively, how about a couple of external pumps with jet returns for flow/distribuition ? I read a thread about using grundfos CH pumps with an £8 attachment to turn them into aquatic pumps (the adaptor received a Prince of Wales innovation award apparently so its not a pile of rubble). The reef boys really know what they are on about with circulation and you keep marines too so must have access to relevant forums regarding this ?

I honestly think its the best way forward. Your tank is something special with its dimensions, but it comes with its complications. I am sure you can overcome them though. Maybe start by having some korallias at the back facing forward. Because the way the flow will spread out, maybe place them at the 1/3 and 2/3 portions of the tank ? If you find that works you can look at alternative external options to do the same job if you want stuff out of the tank.

It may also be that a split CO2 introduction is a good idea. If you went with external pumps it could be inline to those, or even maybe consider internal diffusers ?

Just my thoughts, nothing set in concrete but hopefully not too daft to be worth thinking about

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

appeciate the input chris however i dont think that is the way forward as im not putting 2 or 3 powerheads in the tank only for everything to be blown around like crazy and would stress the fauna.
When i see tanks like James Findleys 'natures chaos' which is much much bigger but doesnt have turbulent water and no powerheads i struggle to understand which way i should go forward.

I used to run internal ceramic diffusers but changed then to inline as distribution was not even.

I have no real issues growing plants in small tanks but big ones seem to get me everytime!!

 

[Alastair]

90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

Hi mate, from my experience with my previous tank, which was 65 depth I think, I found lily pipes etc just cut velocity of flow far too much. I used the standard eheim outlets, one rear left pointing right across the back, facing down at an angle slightly, and the other front right blowing left and down which gave me very good flow around the whole tank and my glosso took off really well once I'd done that. It also meant I only needed the inline to be run by one filter too instead of splitting it. The powerhead I had I also placed on the right side but about quarter of the way from the front glass which helped blow the co2 Laden water from the outlet on the left and also down to my glosso.

If that makes sense and this was in my vision 450 which was a pain for flow which you know Mate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

Thanks alistair, i have just ordered a new pair of shepherds crooks so will swop them over later in the week and see if the lilys are part of the problem.
Knowing what isnt the problem i guess is as important as finding the cure, learning wise. I will see this tank through to the end though as i need to crack the big tank jinx i have at the moment.
Why is failure always a pre requisite to success :?

 

[Antipofish]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

appeciate the input chris however i dont think that is the way forward as im not putting 2 or 3 powerheads in the tank only for everything to be blown around like crazy and would stress the fauna.
When i see tanks like James Findleys 'natures chaos' which is much much bigger but doesnt have turbulent water and no powerheads i struggle to understand which way i should go forward.

I used to run internal ceramic diffusers but changed then to inline as distribution was not even.

I have no real issues growing plants in small tanks but big ones seem to get me everytime!!

James told me on the phone that they definitely had extra circulation in Natures Chaos mate. And I wasn't talking about blowing stuff around like a washing machine. But there can be no doubt that a powerhead or circulation pump would do the job of distributing CO2 much better than a spraybar in a tank your depth. Like I said, and you have mentioned it yourself, if you want more even distribution, maybe two diffusers will work better than one 🙂 Good luck.

 

[Ady34]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. need some advise please.

The powerhead blows from back right pointing towards substrate and front glass to create a circular flow.

However my tennelus and glosso carpet are struggling and have BBA in the base of the tennelus.

The problem i have is i dont really know how i can change the set up due to the tank depth, a circular flow seems to be the obvious choice. I have considered getting another inline atomiser and run two spray bars along the back of the tank pointing at the front but feel that the flow wouldnt be adequate to deal with 75cm depth and the back would then struggle??

My co2 is at its limit before fish behaviour changes and DC is pale green/ yellow at lights on. I have slashed my light period to just 3 hours with 150w HQI and 2 x 24w T5 run 5 hours with HQi, glosso has started growing vertically again as i also raised the light up 10cm to 70cm from substrate. I also dose 15ml excel daily and generous EI.

I find this very frustrating as im really at a loss how to improve the flow, if i turn the powerhead up then it turns into a washing machine....

Any advise would be much appreciated especially from anyone who has had a deep tank before.
I will post up another video of the configuration and how the flow looks tomorrow.

Thanks guys

Hi Iain,
have you tried positioning the powerhead at the left hand rear of the tank, below the filter inlet, but much but lower down in the water column and pointing along the rear of the tank to maintain the circular flow pattern? This way you would maximise the water movement from the powerhead at substrate level. If your hardscape would prevent this at the rear, then try putting it in the lower front right corner pointing across the front towards the left of the tank, again keeping the circular flow pattern but maximising substrate level water movement. If you dont like the idea of the powerhead being at the front of the tank you could place it lower right rear corner pointing towards the front glass. What im basically trying to say is put the powerhead as low down in the water column as possible to maximise its efficiency where your struggling with flow. Hopefully the c02 distributed from the filter outlet will be sufficiently drawn downwards to be distributed evenly with good circulation at all levels.
Prob looking back at the vid on p11, right rear low down may be best to ensure even flow to all the lower regions. As it is currently the right front may be a little stagnant. Also this will have the benefit of distributing c02 pushed downwards from the left inlet after hitting the right side glass so could work well.
Cheerio,
Ady.

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

Thats handy to know chris, im going to try the old school outlets and then maybe think about splitting my co2 between both outlets, although i dont think this should be needed.
i guess that ill know in a week or so if it helps.

 

[Antipofish]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

Thats handy to know chris, im going to try the old school outlets and then maybe think about splitting my co2 between both outlets, although i dont think this should be needed.
i guess that ill know in a week or so if it helps.

Cool. He basically said he does not subscribe to the high flow theory in normal sized tanks, but in ones such as natures chaos, they did add additional circulation. We had that conversation when I was mentioning to him that I saw a 40% reduction in flow on my G6 when I added the AM1000 reactor. George also is not too fussed on massive flow, and look at his results ! Perfect every time, damn him, LOL.

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

Low flow seems to be 'in' right now, problem is when you are new, which most of us are, we seem to need lots of flow to be sure distribution is ok. I guess once you've had several successful tanks then slowing things down becomes easier and more obvious to do successfully.
Baffles me how people such as Mark Evans have relatively low light, flow and ferts but still get intense high tech results.
One day......

 

[ceg4048]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. need some advise please.

...The problem i have is i dont really know how to improve my flow, the tank is 90x75x45 that runs an eheim pro2 (soon to be G6) pro 3 (2500lph with both) and a tunze powerhead at 1800lph. The config is the pro two runs the up inline atomiser on intake and blows out through lilys across the back of the tank from back left corner. The pro 3 runs the inline heater and blows from front right corner across the front. The powerhead blows from back right pointing towards substrate and front glass to create a circular flow..

This does not deliver circular flow as your tennelus and glosso attest. What you most likely have done is to create a collision of flow with one filters energy cancelling or interfering with the other. The powerhead also cancels or possibly reverses the downward movement of the water column.

I don't know why everyone thinks that they can play ping-pong with water. It can never work unless by some miracle the flow energies line up. To optimize distribution in the tank. All flow outlets must be on the same wall, pointing straight ahead in the same direction. The distance between each outlet should be equidistant across the mounting wall. In this way, all flow energies line up and combine to be additive. Any other arrangement results in loss of flow efficiency because fllows will be headed in opposite directions resulting in stagnation. Think about the engine arrangement on a 747. Which way are all engines pointing? What would happen if one were pointed diagonally up and to the left, another down and to the left and the other two diagonally up and down to the right? Which arrangement maximizes the output energy of the jet outflow?

It doesn't matter how much flow you have if you waste it.

Cheers,

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

Thankyou clive, this i understand but the problem is i cant see a logical way to make improvements (i appreciate its trial and error but would like to avoid the error 🙂 ). how do you think the best way to set it up would be? i dont think spraybars across the back would have enough umph to move the water 75cm and then carry the flow back the same distance at substrate level??
The only other option i can think of is standard outlets both on the back firing at the front glass?? Which to be honest seems a bit odd to me...

 

[ceg4048]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

Why does this seem odd mate? In fact I'm suggesting that both pipe outlets as well as your turbo jet be mounted along the back wall equally spaced along the wall. The more powerful of the output should be in the center. You should see an immediate improvement in flow.

Cheers,

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

Why does this seem odd mate? In fact I'm suggesting that both pie otlets as well as your turbo jet be mounted along the back wall equally spaced along the wall. The more porwerful of the output should be in the center. You should see an immediate improvement in flow.

Cheers,

i guess it seems odd as i dont remember seeing a tank set up like that before, outlets always seem to be on opposing side to make the 'circular' flow... 😳 I cant help feel that this will only work with co2 being injected into both outlets?
Do you think 2 spray bars along the back both with an inline diffuser would also be a viable option considering the width of the tank?

So the plan at the moment is i will swop the pro 2 for the g6, change the lilys for standard outlets and have both filters leaving the back of the tank pointed at the front glass and see how things improve.

 

[ceg4048]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

Why does this seem odd mate? In fact I'm suggesting that both pie otlets as well as your turbo jet be mounted along the back wall equally spaced along the wall. The more porwerful of the output should be in the center. You should see an immediate improvement in flow.

Cheers,

i guess it seems odd as i dont remember seeing a tank set up like that before, outlets always seem to be on opposing side to make the 'circular' flow... 😳

Maybe that's why so many people have problems? And maybe that's why the people who seem odd don't have these problems? Just musing at this point...

I cant help feel that this will only work with co2 being injected into both outlets?

Well, more CO2 injectors always works better than one.

Do you think 2 spray bars along the back both with an inline diffuser would also be a viable option considering the width of the tank?

Yep, definitely. That's what I do, but there are so many lily pipe fanbois out there that I hesitate to suggest it.

Cheers,

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

i bought lily pipes (cheap asian ones i might add), i love the look but the flow they produce seems to be reduced and all at the surface and not pushed down to where it is needed.

DIY acrylic spraybars to be made this week then and then patience.

Thanks for the help clive.

 

[Antipofish]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

Why does this seem odd mate? In fact I'm suggesting that both pipe outlets as well as your turbo jet be mounted along the back wall equally spaced along the wall. The more powerful of the output should be in the center. You should see an immediate improvement in flow.

Cheers,

I have to agree. Its what I said earlier about equally spacing the korallias (if you were to get some). In the absence of extra devices, your normal returns acting as jets rather than spraybars plus the turbo jet would do the trick. I did it just with spraybars the way Clive told me to and it made the difference, but in your case spraybars wont have the oomph due to the 75cm depth. All you need to do is set it up like that and observe 🙂 I bet you anything that it will make a difference. The theory, in case you are not familiar (sorry if Im teaching you to suck eggs etc) is that as a jet of water coming forward it will hit the front glass and be deflected down and back in a forward: down: back motion.

 

[Antipofish]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

i bought lily pipes (cheap asian ones i might add), i love the look but the flow they produce seems to be reduced and all at the surface and not pushed down to where it is needed.

DIY acrylic spraybars to be made this week then and then patience.

Thanks for the help clive.

I think Cal Aqua make different shapes. Some that deflect the flow upwards for surface agitation, some that deflect it down.

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

yeah i was just looking at the violet version. Happy to go with this for now, focus on the plants and worry about aesthetics at a later date. That and i dont want to spend £130 for 2 outlets!!

 

[Antipofish]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

yeah i was just looking at the violet version. Happy to go with this for now, focus on the plants and worry about aesthetics at a later date. That and i dont want to spend £130 for 2 outlets!!

Hahaha, why not, you already took out a second mortgage on the rest of the tank 😉 Nah I know where you are coming from.

Remind me again, what two filters are you running and what are their lph ratings (what they are ACTUALLY doing, not what the pump is rated at ?) And what was the power head that clive referred to ?

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please

Clive, i bow down sir I figured that changing the flow with what i have is better than waiting etc..
Now have both lily pipes coming from either side of the back with the powerhead in the middle.
I got extremely wet as i didn't fasten the up atomiser properly and it came off when i started the filter 😳
There always seems to be something....
Anyhoo, the flow was looking to be an immediate improvement but wasnt until i fed the fish that i really appreciated how well it worked. I figured id leave the filters on and feed brine shrimp and see where they go. Squirted it in the middle of the tank and it all went to the front glass, through the annoying glosso and reached right to the back of the tank. My doubts about the filter output not being enough to go the distance are put to rest.

I still need to attach the second atomiser once it arrives and figure out how attach the lily pipes as suckers dont stick to the back of the tank due to the frosting film.

Took a very quick pic to show setup.


Will be interesting to see how things improve.
Cheers Mate!