• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

Bacopa Salzmannii Purple - Issue on old leaves

G

guillaume-u

New Member
Joined
10 Jun 2022
Messages
24
Location
France
Hello and Happy New Year to all 🙂

I've had Bacopa Salzmannii Purple for about 6 months in my tank ; but I can't get it to grow properly.

My fert is base on PPS Pro :
* N : 0.28ppm/day
  • PO4 : 0.19ppm/day
  • K : 1.66ppm/day
  • Mg : 0.12ppm/day

KH is at 0
For the light, PAR is at 150 on the ground.
For the CO2, I've installed a drop checker near these bacopa and it's yellow during the day.
I do water change every weeks (about 50%).

I really don't understand what's I'm doing wrong. Other plants are fine (little algae issue on Nasaea old leaves and on Ludwigia SP White, but not as critical as for Bacopa).

Thanks for your help.

1672777184899.png


1672777251750.png
 

Please read the guidelines for plant help!

Dear Member Please give as many details as possible regarding your aquarium set-up, when requiring advice/help! The above should be posted at the start of each help request. Why do we ask these questions? It will reduce posts by members asking for the information below, also advisers don't...
www.ukaps.org www.ukaps.org
 
Hello,
Thanks for your replies and sorry for missing information.

My GH is at 7.

1. Size of tank : 140l
2. Age of the system approximately : 4 years
3. Tap water parameters : I'm using RO water + Shrimp King GH+
4. Filtration : Aquael Ultramax 1500
5. Lighting and duration : PAR 150 at the ground during 7hours
6. Substrate : Dennerle Scapper Soil (4 years old but I'm adding some root tabs)
7. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing : CO2 with an extinguisher (drop checker Yellow)
8. Fertilizers used + Ratios : PPM Pro
  • N : 0.28ppm/day
  • PO4 : 0.19ppm/day
  • K : 1.66ppm/day
  • Mg : 0.12ppm/day

9. Water change regime and composition : 50% weekly with RO Water + Shrimp King GH+ (to reach a GH = 7)
10. Plant list :
  • Ludwigia Inclinata Meta
  • Ludwigia Inclinata Cuba
  • Ludwigia SP White
  • Rotala Blood Red SG
  • Rotala Macrandra
  • Rotala Marcrandra Type 4 mini
  • Rotala Sahyadrica
  • Syngonanthus
  • Pogostemon Helferi
  • Nesaea Pedicellata Golden
  • Bacopa Salzmannii Purple
  • Eriocaulon Lineare
  • Eriocaulon Blood Vomit
  • Eriocaulon Quinquangulare
  • Monte Carlo
11. Inhabitants :
  • Shrimps (Neocaridina / Caridina)
  • Honey Gouramy : 2
  • Danio SP Black Tiger : 4
  • Pseudomugil Luminatus : 10
  • Corydoras Habrosus : 8
  • Neritina
12. Full tank shot & Surface image
1672822361390.png
1672822385273.png

Thanks 🙂
 
Hello @dw1305 ; thanks a lot for your reply.

Correct me if I'm wrong. GH is Mg + Ca.
I'm adding Mg daily but not Ca.

Maybe I've not enough Ca but too much Mg ?
 
The thing is my tap water is really hard (it's liquid rocks 😀):
  • KH = 11
  • GH > 30

So it's not easy to use it/mix.
However I've CaSO4 in powder. If needed I can try to add some ppm every day to make a test.

Just in case, I'll wait for @Happi feedback ^^

Thanks again !
 
Yes I have one (but maybe it's not accurate since it was not calibrated since a while).
  • Tap water ~800µS/cm
  • RO Water with GH+ ~400µs/cm

But I really would like to keep a KH at 0, it's better for sensitive Eriocaulon.

I've asked Dennerle, what is the Calcium/Magnesium ratio in GH+ Shrimp King.
They quickly replied :
The results at a dosage of 1.5 g Bee Salt/ 10 L :

35.8 mg/l Ca
5.9 mg/l Mg

Ratio: approx. 6:1
Click to expand...

It's very helpful ! I think I have enough Ca in my water.

Guillaume.
 
Hi all,
guillaume-u said:
Yes I have one (but maybe it's not accurate since it was not calibrated since a while).
Click to expand...
It should still be calibrated, they don't need frequent recalibration. You can make your <"1411 microS calibration standard"> really easily.
guillaume-u said:
But I really would like to keep a KH at 0, it's better for sensitive Eriocaulon.
Click to expand...
Point taken, you can't decouple dGH and dKH using your tap water.
guillaume-u said:
RO Water with GH+ ~400µs/cm
Click to expand...
guillaume-u said:
I've asked Dennerle, what is the Calcium/Magnesium ratio in GH+ Shrimp King.
They quickly replied :
The results at a dosage of 1.5 g Bee Salt/ 10 L :

35.8 mg/l Ca
5.9 mg/l Mg

Ratio: approx. 6:1
Click to expand...
I'd reduce the amount of GH+, by at least a half, and probably three-quarters, to get your conductivity down to ~100µs / cm before you add your fertilisers.

As you are already adding magnesium (Mg++) with your fertilisers I'd actually dump it as a product altogether and just buy some food grade calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H20) as your Ca++ source, it will be a lot cheaper.

cheers Darrel
 
Last edited:
Thanks again for your reply @dw1305 (and thanks for the link to make a calibation solution 🙂)

Point taken, you can't decouple dGH and dKH using your tap water.
Click to expand...
I can do it with Seachem Acid Buffer ... but it will complicate my water change :
  • do a mix RO/Tap water to achieve GH 7
  • use Seachem Acid Buffer to reduce KH to 0

Using remineralized RO water it's simpler, if I can keep that, I prefer 😀

I'd reduce the amount of GH+, by at least a half, and probably three-quarters, to get your conductivity down to ~100µs / cm before you add your fertilisers.

As you are already adding magnesium (Mg++) with your fertilisers I'd actually dump it as a product altogether and just buy some food grade calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H20) as your Ca++ source, it will be a lot cheaper.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure to understand this point. You suppose my Bacopa issue is due to high conductivity ?

Just for information, I'm adding magnesium because I saw some magnesium deficiency (dark leaf veins and curve leaf on Ludwigia Inclinata Cuba - In my tank it's the first plant which is showing this deficiency).
It happened twice this year and it deasapears after adding magnesium.

Edit : I forget to said, I'm also adding microelements by using "MasterLine I"
 
guillaume-u said:
9. Water change regime and composition : 50% weekly with RO Water + Shrimp King GH+ (to reach a GH = 7)
Click to expand...
Hi @guillaume-u, I see your keeping shrimps as well.... Yes, as Darrel says, you can ditch the Shrimp King and just use dry salts. Makes it easier to get what you want and cheaper.

With 100% RO I would use Food grade Gysum Salt (CaSO4) to avoid the Chloride (Cl) (unless your pre-batching your solution) and, for the sake of the shrimps, add extra food grade Epsom Salt (MgSO4) to make up for the otherwise low Mg you would end up with if you only rely on the (7x0.12 ppm) of Mg from your fertilizer.

With the CaSO4 I would target 26 ppm of Ca and 7 ppm of Mg from MgSO4. With the 1 ppm of Mg from the ferts, this will yield a GH of 5.5. Perfect for your shrimps and plants (lower GH should help with uptake as well). The bioflavonoids, which I believe is part of Shrimp King, you can get from adding botanicals once in a while - such as a couple of Almond leaves every month.

Cheers,
Michael
 
guillaume-u said:
use Seachem Acid Buffer to reduce KH to 0
Click to expand...
Don't. For any meaningful change to KH when mixing higher KH tap water, the Acid Buffer will make your TDS skyrocket (not good for your shrimps, and not good for your tank in general ). Live with the non-zero KH or use 100% RO. If your using 100% RO water it should come out at zero KH.

Cheers,
Michael
 
Last edited:
In fact, before using Shrimp King, I used to use CaSO4 + MgSO4 to remineralize my RO Water.

But, it wasn't very easy (the volume and weight of CaSO4 is changing with the humidity and CaSO4 is not easy to disolve)..
That's why I'm using Shrimp King but if you think that it's the cause of my bacopa issue, I can make a try during few weeks.
 
guillaume-u said:
In fact, before using Shrimp King, I used to use CaSO4 + MgSO4 to remineralize my RO Water.

But, it wasn't very easy (the volume and weight of CaSO4 is changing with the humidity and CaSO4 is not easy to disolve)..
Click to expand...
I've been using CaSO4 for a very long time now. I store mine in a very tight container (not the bag it came in) to avoid any influx of humidity. I mix my water in batches of 5 US gallons (20L) where I add the powdered CaSo4 to target of about 27 ppm . I never had, and shouldn't have, any issues with solubility at that ratio given the solubility is 2.6g/liter.

guillaume-u said:
but if you think that it's the cause of my bacopa issue, I can make a try during few weeks.
Click to expand...
No, I actually have no idea on the Bacopa issue... I only chimed in on this because I saw you had shrimps and in general tried to suggest an easier, cheaper and more controlled remineralization routine 🙂

Cheers,
Michael
 
Last edited:
Hi all,
MichaelJ said:
Don't. For any meaningful change to KH when mixing higher KH tap water, the Acid Buffer will make your TDS skyrocket (not good for your shrimps, and not good for your tank in general ). Live with the non-zero KH or use 100% RO.
Click to expand...
guillaume-u said:
I can do it with Seachem Acid Buffer ... but it will complicate my water change :
Click to expand...
What @MichaelJ says, "buffers" are just a way of <"separating you from your money">. I also have a real issue with <"Seachem's advertising">, it is, at best, disingenuous.
guillaume-u said:
I'm not sure to understand this point. You suppose my Bacopa issue is due to high conductivity ?
Click to expand...
MichaelJ said:
No, I actually have no idea on the Bacopa issue... I only chimed in on this because I saw you had shrimps and in general tried to suggest an easier, cheaper and more controlled remineralization routine
Click to expand...
Probably not, I'll be honest I have no idea what is wrong with your <"Bacopa salzmannii "Purple"> either, it isn't a plant I've grown and the purple colour makes diagnosing deficiencies problematic. Personally I'd just grow something else (that is happier with the conditions you've provided) as your other plants look pretty healthy. I'd also guess that Bacopa salzmannii would be <"much happier as an emersed plant">.
MichaelJ said:
Yes, as Darrel says, you can ditch the Shrimp King and just use dry salts. Makes it easier to get what you want and cheaper.........With the CaSO4 I would target 26 ppm of Ca and 7 ppm of Mg from MgSO4. With the 1 ppm of Mg from the ferts, this will yield a GH of 5.5. Perfect for your shrimps and plants (lower GH should help with uptake as well).
Click to expand...
Yes, you just need less remineralising salts. At the moment you are going to the lengths of making RO, but then adding 400 MicroS of dGH with an expensive product, it just doesn't make any sense. You can add a lot less calcium (Ca).
guillaume-u said:
before using Shrimp King, I used to use CaSO4 + MgSO4 to remineralize my RO Water. But, it wasn't very easy (the volume and weight of CaSO4 is changing with the humidity and CaSO4 is not easy to disolve)..
Click to expand...
MichaelJ said:
I've been using CaSO4 for a very long time now. I store mine in a very tight container (not the bag it came in) to avoid any influx of humidity. I mix my water in batches of 5 US gallons (20L) where I add the powdered CaSo4 to target of about 27 ppm . I never had, and shouldn't have, any issues with solubility at that ratio given the solubility is 2.6g/liter.
Click to expand...
@MichaelJ 's suggestion, or use calcium chloride (CaCl2.nH2O), it is also hygroscopic, so you need to store it "air tight" or frozen.

cheers Darrel
 
guillaume-u said:
I've had Bacopa Salzmannii Purple for about 6 months in my tank ; but I can't get it to grow properly.
Click to expand...
guillaume-u said:
My GH is at 7.

1. Size of tank : 140l
2. Age of the system approximately : 4 years
3. Tap water parameters : I'm using RO water + Shrimp King GH+
4. Filtration : Aquael Ultramax 1500
5. Lighting and duration : PAR 150 at the ground during 7hours
6. Substrate : Dennerle Scapper Soil (4 years old but I'm adding some root tabs)
7. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing : CO2 with an extinguisher (drop checker Yellow)
8. Fertilizers used + Ratios : PPM Pro
  • N : 0.28ppm/day
  • PO4 : 0.19ppm/day
  • K : 1.66ppm/day
  • Mg : 0.12ppm/day

9. Water change regime and composition : 50% weekly with RO Water + Shrimp King GH+ (to reach a GH = 7)
Click to expand...

stick with using CaSo4 and MgSO4 to raise the GH, no need to worry about the KH. plant do not need that much GH either, some people add more GH especially those who keeps shrimps. 10 ppm Ca, 4 ppm Mg is more than enough to cover wide range of aquatic plant needs, including other factors. you use PPS Pro, but do you know which Traces/Fe are being used here? does this PPS Pro formula also include Urea? did you know that there are some Modification done to some of the PPS pro Formulas By Edward himself? and you can also find the DIY recipe here as well.

i would suggest using Solufeed Trace and then add the Macros same as PPS Pro and go from there.

most importantly i want to know how is your current Micro/Fe is made of? CSM+B or something else?


1673115427804.png

most of these signs would indicate something is wrong somewhere with the Micros. unfortunately it is extremely hard to pinpoint it when it comes to Aquatic plants.
 
Happi said:
10 ppm Ca, 4 ppm Mg is more than enough to cover wide range of aquatic plant needs
Click to expand...
Hi @Happi In my so-called lean tank I am close to these numbers with CaSO4/MgSO4 ~2 GH and ~0.4 KH from K2CO3. Plants, all easy right now, are doing very well with the accompanied lean dosing (1 ppm of N and crazy low levels of traces weekly from Tropica Specialized).
Happi said:
some people add more GH especially those who keeps shrimps
Click to expand...
Very true. One thing I noticed (not surprisingly in hindsight) is that all snails (Ramshorn) are gone from my lean tank. The few holdouts all developed white shells. Very sure this is due to the combination of very low GH and and low'ish pH ~6.3. I eventually migrated the ones I could find to my shrimp tank where the Ca/Mg contents is much higher (~26/~7 ppm respectively) and there the snails are obviously doing well.

Cheers,
Michael
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top