Bacopa Salzmannii Purple - Issue on old leaves

[Happi]

Hi @Happi In my so-called lean tank I am close to these numbers with CaSO4/MgSO4 ~2 GH and ~0.4 KH from K2CO3. Plants, all easy right now, are doing very well with the accompanied lean dosing (1 ppm of N and crazy low levels of traces weekly from Tropica Specialized).

one thing i forgot to tell the OP is that you can add some Potassium through KHCO3 or K2CO3 while using 100% RO water if needed. Lower Traces is what the plant truly need and appreciate, but, unfortunately sometime the water parameters are way to complex or complicated, it just simply wont allow them to work properly.

Very true. One thing I noticed (not surprisingly in hindsight) is that all snails (Ramshorn) are gone from my lean tank. The few holdouts all developed white shells. Very sure this is due to the combination of very low GH and and low'ish pH ~6.3. I eventually migrated the ones I could find to my shrimp tank where the Ca/Mg contents is much higher (~26/~7 ppm respectively) and here the snails are obviously doing well.

for some reason the pest snail would still survive in low to 0 GH

 

[guillaume-u]

Hello @Happi.

Thanks a lot for your reply ; I'll slowly reduce my amount of GH.

For micro, I'm using "Masterline I - I - Masterline " at 1.2 x recommended dosage.

About my "PPS Pro" Macro mix, I'm adding a little dose of Urea (from powder).
Here is the composition of my bottle (~50d) :

• EasyLife Kallium : 120.3ml => Total 40.1ppm
• KNO3 : 10g => Total 51.11ppm NO3 (11.54ppm N) + 32.23ppm K
• Urea : 0.3g => Total 1.17ppm N
• KH2PO4 : 1.5g => 8.72ppm PO4 + 3.59ppm (K)
• MgSO4 6.87g => Total 5.65ppm

As you suggested, it's not the real PPS Pro recipe ; I've changed some parameters (especially KH2PO4 which I increased recently).

To make a test, I can add more micro.

 

[MichaelJ]

Lower Traces is what the plant truly need and appreciate, but, unfortunately sometime the water parameters are way to complex or complicated, it just simply wont allow them to work properly.

Yes, this extremely low trace prescription of yours definitely works in my very soft water tank. 🏆

for some reason the pest snail would still survive in low to 0 GH

Thats interesting... I wonder if your referring to Bladder Snails. Their shells are pretty thin almost translucent, they (and probably others...) might just be getting by with whatever small amounts of Ca they can pickup from decomposing plant material and algae if the water is extremely soft.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Happi]

For micro, I'm using "Masterline I - I - Masterline " at 1.2 x recommended dosage.

Marian makes a good Products. what is the daily ppm Fe this adds?

About my "PPS Pro" Macro mix, I'm adding a little dose of Urea (from powder).
Here is the composition of my bottle (~50d) :

• EasyLife Kallium : 120.3ml => Total 40.1ppm
• KNO3 : 10g => Total 51.11ppm NO3 (11.54ppm N) + 32.23ppm K
• Urea : 0.3g => Total 1.17ppm N
• KH2PO4 : 1.5g => 8.72ppm PO4 + 3.59ppm (K)
• MgSO4 6.87g => Total 5.65ppm

As you suggested, it's not the real PPS Pro recipe ; I've changed some parameters (especially KH2PO4 which I increased recently).

To make a test, I can add more micro.

verify if this looks correct:

Daily Dose:
EasyLife Kallium - 0.851 K daily
NO3 1.0855 (0.245 N) (0.6845 K)
(Urea-N) - 0.02485
PO4 0.1852 (0.0762 K)
Mg 0.12
Total K: 1.612

 

[guillaume-u]

Daily Dose:
EasyLife Kallium - 0.851 K daily
NO3 1.0855 (0.245 N) (0.6845 K)
(Urea-N) - 0.02485
PO4 0.1852 (0.0762 K)
Mg 0.12
Total K: 1.612

It seems correct and pretty close to what I've wrote at the beginning of this thread 😀

About Fe, it should be +0.084 ppm/day.

Many thanks again.

 

[Happi]

It seems correct and pretty close to what I've wrote at the beginning of this thread 😀

About Fe, it should be +0.084 ppm/day.

Many thanks again.

I wasn't sure about the EasyLife Kallium - 0.851 K daily, this was the main one i wanted to verify. the weekly doses looks something like this:

N 1.888 (Urea N - 0.174) (NO3-N -1.715, 7.6 ppm NO3 from KNO3 ) weekly
P 0.42
K 11.28
Mg 0.84
Fe 0.588
Mn 0.196
Zn 0.14
B 0.112
Cu 0.0252
Mo 0.0168

the amount of Urea here is almost negligible, if you truly want to see the benefit of it, it must be increased. my preference is 50% N from Urea and 50% N from KNO3. Micros are bit on the higher end as well and might not be needed in such quantity, i usually consider the GH when someone really want to add lot of Micros. remember earlier how i said that "it has something to do with the Micros" in #20 ? in my experience too much EDTA/Chelate can do the similar damage, some plant tolerate this better than the others. i also said that it is very difficult to pin point the exact cause, because similar issue can be caused by several other factors, which can include Na, Cl, deficiency, toxicity etc. but overdosing the Micros is one of the causes here.

I suggest working with Ca and Mg with something like Ca 10, Mg 4 or Ca 20, Mg 8 far as GH goes. no need to add additional K from EasyLife Kallium, K coming from KNO3 and KH2PO4 is sufficient.

what dry salts do you have?

 

[guillaume-u]

I wasn't sure about the EasyLife Kallium - 0.851 K daily, this was the main one i wanted to verify. the weekly doses looks something like this:

I confirm, that what I'm calculating too.

the amount of Urea here is almost negligible, if you truly want to see the benefit of it, it must be increased. my preference is 50% N from Urea and 50% N from KNO3.

I'll try that for my next bottle 🙂 thanks. Should I start by 75% from KNO3 and 25% from Urea ? Or directly 50/50 ?

3. Micros are bit on the higher end as well and might not be needed in such quantity, i usually consider the GH when someone really want to add lot of Micros. remember earlier how i said that "it has something to do with the Micros" in #20 ? in my experience too much EDTA/Chelate can do the similar damage, some plant tolerate this better than the others.

Thanks for this information ; I was not aware about that.

i also said that it is very difficult to pin point the exact cause, because similar issue can be caused by several other factors, which can include Na, Cl, deficiency, toxicity etc. but overdosing the Micros is one of the causes here.

Sure, and I don't expect to get a solution 🙂 just only get some ideas to resolve my issue. What you said about micro and GH is very helpful to me.

I suggest working with Ca and Mg with something like Ca 10, Mg 4 or Ca 20, Mg 8 far as GH goes. no need to add additional K from EasyLife Kallium, K coming from KNO3 and KH2PO4 is sufficient.

I didn't think that KNO3 + KH2PO4 was enough source for K.

what dry salts do you have?

I have : K2SO4, KN03, Urea, KH2PO4, MgSO4, K2CO3, CaSO4 (but I can order more if needed).


Should I start :

• by reducing my GH (and make this test for about 2 weeks) ?
• or reducing my micro (and make this test for about 2 weeks too) ?

 

[Happi]

I'll try that for my next bottle 🙂 thanks. Should I start by 75% from KNO3 and 25% from Urea ? Or directly 50/50 ?

its up to you, you can certainly play with those numbers.

I have : K2SO4, KN03, Urea, KH2PO4, MgSO4, K2CO3, CaSO4 (but I can order more if needed).


Should I start :

• by reducing my GH (and make this test for about 2 weeks) ?
• or reducing my micro (and make this test for about 2 weeks too) ?

looks like you have most of the needed salts, start with the recommendations that were previously suggested. GH of 2-5 range is good overall and no need to go higher than 5. you can reduce the Micros a bit for now and see what happens. 2 weeks is good start but sometime its better to run the setup for at least 1 month, you will be able to judge things little bit better at that point.

 

[erwin123]

Tropica Specialised causing Nitrite spikes - false positive or genuine concern??

s it something that the tank is going to adjust to over time too The increasing the dosing frequency was my solution when using urea, little and often. With using a PLC for a timer for DIY doser I was able to dose my urea based AIO fert 100 times a week ( few drops every 12mins). On ther tank...

www.ukaps.org

I was advised that the problem was Manganese, so I started added Seachem Trace.

I will add that Neocaridinia appear to like eating B.Salzmannii leaves......

p.s. I find it odd that the stems of your B.Salzmannii purple are so 'green'. They are normally quite purple.

 

[guillaume-u]

Hello 🙂

I've added a Xyris 3 weeks ago and I'm seeing the same deficiency :


Do you have any idea about these small dots ?

Can it be a potassium deficiency ? or another thing (CO2 ? micro-element ?)

I think I'll place it in a green-house to save it.

 

[guillaume-u]

As I'm adding1.66ppm/day for potassium, I think it can't be the root cause ... but not sure.

 

[plantnoobdude]

Stupid question perhaps. But what is the light? Your tank looks very very dim and it seems to be the short and difficult plants which are struggling.

 

[plantnoobdude]

Stupid question perhaps. But what is the light? Your tank looks very very dim and it seems to be the short and difficult plants which are struggling.

And I'll add, most people have no where near the amount of success you have with your difficult array of plants which are in very good health. The only problem, is colour seems to be very poor.

 

[guillaume-u]

I have 2 LED Ramp :

• The default one provided by Ciano
• I've added (maybe a year ago) a SuperFish Slim dimmed at 40%

I've tested the PAR (3 month ago) at the ground (where the Xyris is located) ; I was at ~140.

I think the poor color is due to my LED Ramp which are not RGB (I'll change that very soon).
However, I agree, the tank is not very bright

 

[macek.g]

Hello 🙂

I've added a Xyris 3 weeks ago and I'm seeing the same deficiency :
View attachment 201203

Do you have any idea about these small dots ?

Can it be a potassium deficiency ? or another thing (CO2 ? micro-element ?)

I think I'll place it in a green-house to save it.

Deficiency or blockage of Mn...or Zn, typical of red leaves

....
Also, the lower leaves losing pigment is indeed a -Zn. This can be the result of low Zn or excess of other metals inducing deficiency. Other symptoms of -Zn are leaf margin undulations, as you can see in many of your plants, shortened internodes, and smaller leaf size. Severe -Zn will result in twisted, deformed, stunted growth.

For you:

R. Macrandra Help

hy. last days i have some problems with Rotala Macrandra and R Macrandra narrow leaf. problems is that the old leaves get some sort of green . or it gets green spots. I increased the magnesium dose in the idea that there might be a deficit. i increase dosage of ferts but no result,the plant...

barrreport.com

😉

 

[guillaume-u]

Thanks @macek.g (and thanks for the link ; his Rotalas looks like mine but I've a little of BBA on some old leaves. I've also (as for him) no issue on Ludwigia Repens)

So it can be a micro-element deficiency. As I'm at the end of my bottle, it's possible.

Some questions, I'm using Masterline I as source of micro :

• I dilute it in a bottle to dose 10ml every day during 50d (so 200ml of Masterline I + 300ml of RO water) ; is it a problem ?
• I'm dosing micro 15min before macro (which contains Po4 and can stop chelator). Should I dose macro and micro every 2 days (alternatly ) to avoid any reaction between micro/macro ?

Thanks again to both of you.