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APS 90 litre

jack-rythm said:
I know its pointless using an air pump but could you explain why its only pointless using it when the lights are on? I know that they dont do what people belive tey do but I have never looked into the reasonings
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they de gas co2 because of surface agitation.At night they are useful for the same reason, when plants stop uptake of co2 and take in O2.
 
as well as getting rid of surface scum.

I don't use one, and adopt a better co2 routine, 2 hours off before lights out means I can be safe to run at higher levels.
Blxya clearly loves it, due to the amount of O2 bubbles coming from them :lol:

I run my co2 at Lime/yellow border, and my fish seem more comfortable than if I run it at mid green. Due to oxygen output being optimal at higher co2 injection.
 
The tanks looking great so far. I reckon it will also crying out for ferts and co2/liquid carbon real soon! 90 ltr is a fair volume to be trying to get away with using carbonated water on I reckon. The air stone running through the day is going to drive what little co2 you have off by breaking the water surface and lifting the co2 out the water. There should be enough o2 produced by the plants while the lights are on anyway. Maybe try just getting a gentle movement on the water surface with the filter to break up the surface scum.
 
@ jack
air pumps work by causing surface disruption so gas exchange increases, part of that gas exchange is your precious co2 disapearing into your house rather than in your tank where you are paying to have it. Most dont inject when lights are off, so no point with lights on 🙂
 
thanks for clarifying it up. I know it degasses the tank from co2 but what if you had no co2 in the tank? would it still be pointless?
 
I have removed The air pump completely now.

Need advice on a CO2 system I don't have the cash at the moment to go for a pressurized system are there any others on the market which are fairly good?

Thanks again guys.
 
I run an air stone 24/7. I uunderstand it will degass the co2 but i run extra to compensate. I just like it running in case ajy problems arise wih the co2 to keep the fish safe.
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I reckon that by a vast margin, the majority of things that go wrong with CO2 is the issue of not having enough CO2. An indication of this is the number of people who complain about having incurred CO2 related algae and plants disintegrating. There is much less often a CO2 system failure which results in an overdose, but there are some, such as a solenoid failing in the open position (however the typical solenoid failure is occurs in the closed position).

The things that result in having too much CO2 is that related to the hobbyist adding too much. This fault mode can occur via simple inattention or by deliberately setting the needle valve too high, which is what we are encouraging ourselves to do, which doesn't seem rational to me.

I really don't see how adding a higher injection rate to compensate for gas loss results in a net increase in the level of safety. Is there not also a reasonable probability of a 24/7 air system failure, such as connection, hose leaks or motor failure? I think yes, and any air system failure will have more severe consequences due to the extra gas compensation.

Since adding air complicates CO2 availability, one also incurs a higher probability of CO2 related plant failures. So I don't see why this added burden should be something we offer to the inexperienced. As Nate says, CO2 injection techniques should be practiced, monitored and improved on by the hobbyist. Avoiding overzealous lighting to reduce the CO2 demand and better attention to flow distribution, which increases efficiency thereby reducing the need for high injection rates should be the objective. I believe that is a better path for lowered health risks and a better path to a more successful tank.

Cheers,
 
Just an update people I downloaded the Tropica app on my wifes iPad anybody used it? I have found it quite good sorta gives you a to do list. I have found that it is helped me in these early stages and would recommend it to any less experienced members like myself.

I'm still waiting on the delivery of the Glutaraldehyde but i'm coping and so are the plants.

The Mi Oya has started to sprout out new leaves and the have such a lovely colour to them and I hope they stay like that. I added two other species of crypts which I had in another tank. One of them is wendetii 'Tropica' and I will dig out the other name at some point.

Noticed too that my RCS is berried which i'm looking forward to see what comes out. I have also added some CRS which are at about grade B and A. I will see how they get on and in the future add some grade S and try to get a colony going.
 
ceg4048 said:
I reckon that by a vast margin, the majority of things that go wrong with CO2 is the issue of not having enough CO2. An indication of this is the number of people who complain about having incurred CO2 related algae and plants disintegrating. There is much less often a CO2 system failure which results in an overdose, but there are some, such as a solenoid failing in the open position (however the typical solenoid failure is occurs in the closed position).

The things that result in having too much CO2 is that related to the hobbyist adding too much. This fault mode can occur via simple inattention or by deliberately setting the needle valve too high, which is what we are encouraging ourselves to do, which doesn't seem rational to me.

I really don't see how adding a higher injection rate to compensate for gas loss results in a net increase in the level of safety. Is there not also a reasonable probability of a 24/7 air system failure, such as connection, hose leaks or motor failure? I think yes, and any air system failure will have more severe consequences due to the extra gas compensation.

Since adding air complicates CO2 availability, one also incurs a higher probability of CO2 related plant failures. So I don't see why this added burden should be something we offer to the inexperienced. As Nate says, CO2 injection techniques should be practiced, monitored and improved on by the hobbyist. Avoiding overzealous lighting to reduce the CO2 demand and better attention to flow distribution, which increases efficiency thereby reducing the need for high injection rates should be the objective. I believe that is a better path for lowered health risks and a better path to a more successful tank.

Cheers,
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Cheers ceg, id never thought of it this way. I only added an air stone as the discus seemed to breathe more rapidly without it. Im reconfiguring my co2 setup on sunday as im in all day so i will remive the air stone and see what effect it has on the fish and re calibrate my co2 to compensate.
 
Yeah mate, review your entire distribution configuration and lower the injection rate. A lower injection rate might mean that you need to turn the gas on earlier. Maybe you need a higher flow rate. Hobbyists with high finnage fish often worry about the fish having to work harder to swim but that actually makes the fish more fit. Of course if the fish hide away to avoid the flow then that's not good either. As I mentioned, putting the air pump on at night is fine. CO2 is very complicated and I think people grossly underestimate it's level of difficulty.

Cheers,
 
Hi all,
jack-rythm said:
. I know it degasses the tank from co2 but what if you had no co2 in the tank? would it still be pointless?
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krazypara3165 said:
I only added an air stone as the discus seemed to breathe more rapidly without it. Im reconfiguring my co2 setup on sunday as im in all day so i will remive the air stone and see what effect it has on the fish and re calibrate my co2 to compensate.
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There is a huge difference in level between adding CO2 and it diffusing in via gas exchange from the atmosphere.
If we aren't adding CO2 it is better to have as much gas exchange as possible in both terms of CO2 and O2 levels. Wet and dry trickle filters are most effective for doing this, but an air stone, or lots of flow, all work.
Have a look here: "Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium" - <plecoplanet: Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium>, I wrote it for plec keepers, but the principles are the same for any fish keeping.
ceg4048 said:
CO2 is very complicated and I think people grossly underestimate it's level of difficulty.
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I'll have a go at this, but it may need some corrections:
CO2
CO2 makes up 0.0355% of the atmosphere (~355ppm).
When CO2 is dissolved in water a fraction of it forms carbonic acid H2CO3 (CO2 (aq) + H2O « H2CO3 (aq)) and it really is a small fraction, about 1.3 x10-3 of the (so just over 1/1000) of the dissolved CO2. We also have the carbonate - CO2 equilibria (K1 & K2), when carbonate buffering is present in the water:

K1 = H2CO3 (aq) « H+ (aq) + HCO3- (aq).
K2 = HCO3- (aq) « H+ (aq) + CO32- (aq)

Adding CO2
Our drop checkers use both the proportion of carbonic acid and the carbonate equilibria to give us a measure of pH and CO2 level, from the pH/ kH/ CO2 chart
picture_1.png
<ShrimpNow !!! - Water Parameters: Understanding pH, GH, KH and others>

Drop Checker
When we add CO2 this means that the carbonate equilibrium is not now with ambient levels of CO2, but with the amount of CO2 that we are adding. It is the depression of pH (caused by the small proportion of H2CO3) that is causing the bromothymol blue pH indicator <Bromothymol blue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia> in the 4dKH solution in the drop checker to change colour (to green or yellow). When we stop adding CO2 the CO2/carbonate equilibria will re-equilibrate with atmospheric CO2 levels, H2CO3 levels will fall, and the pH will rise, and the drop checker turn back to blue (>pH7.6). The pH will rise above pH7 due to the alkalinity (carbonate buffering) of the 4dKH solution in the drop checker.

Natural CO2 levels in tank water
The natural level of CO2 in water will depend upon the size of the gas exchange surface, temperature of the water, pH and the balance between plants and animals during the photo-period. If we look at water with low carbonate buffering we are looking at about 0.5ppm CO2 at 25oC, (CO2 details in <CHEMICAL FEATURES OF WATER>). If we have a high fish load, a heavily planted tank and a small gas exchange surface, levels may rise to 10 - 15ppm before lights on. In the same scenario, during the photo-period, when the plants are photosynthesising, CO2 levels are likely to be um-measurably small. I won't talk any more about dissolved oxygen (O2), but the details are here (they are different links): <CHEMICAL FEATURES OF WATER>.
​
If we have very efficient gas exchange it helps both ways by reducing the variation in CO2 and O2 levels, it is a win win situation.​
​
cheers Darrel​
 
I've started dosing Glutaraldehyde, following Alastairs


dose 1ml per 10 gal and on water change day dose 5ml per 10 gal rule.

Tank is 19.79 UKG so will be dosing 2ml, would it be dangerous to dose 2.5ml
 
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