Anyone have fert list to make 2hr aquarist APT Complete please.

[john779]

Zinc Hydroxide does this, it doesn’t form a sedimenting precipitate unless it’s oxidised (the oxide is a black precipitate) it stays in suspension looking a bit like paper pulp in the water. I am unsure in this instance what precipitation product you may have as long as the water was acidified before the zinc went in and then stayed relatively low then it shouldn’t precipitate.

0.25g of Ascorbic acid is all you need to get a pH low enough around pH3.5 for the traces in 500ml of water. Try a batch with a lower amount of Ascorbic and see if there is any difference.
🙂

@X3NiTH
1. Should it be 3.5 ph when i start adding trace and then followed with macro or it should around 3.5ph after adding micro then need to add trace.
2. Is it ok go even lower like 2-2.5ph ? When starting to add micro then followed with macro or vise versa

 

[X3NiTH]

Acidify the receiving water beforehand. Usually add the Micro salts first then Macro second.

In your case it might be worth adding the Macro salts first to non acidified water then checking the pH of your Macro combination, add the Ascorbic at 0.25g per 500ml and check the pH again, if it’s around pH4 then it should be okay to add the Micro salts, if it’s above pH5 then add another 0.25g of Ascorbic acid.

There’s not really much point in targeting a lower pH, a pH of 3.5 should be perfectly OK to solubilise non chelated micronutrients however the behaviour with EDTA chelated micro elements may be slightly different (you would need to find the Stability Constants for the other chelated metals).

🙂

 

[X3NiTH]

Here’s FeDTPA to be complete.


Mn EDTA is unstable below pH3 so there’s your reason not to go lower on the mixtures pH.

🙂

 

[Happi]

Mg EDTA

PH dropped to 1.9 using HCL, PH went up to 5.5 after adding 5 gram Mg EDTA, solution remained clear.

Added more HCL and dropped the PH to 3.7, the solution started to form clumps and prectipated.

I usually maintain PH of 5-6 for my micro solution. I will need to repeat the above test using other EDTA based chemicals as well to see how they react to the PH.

 

[Happi]

Started with ph 0.6 and added 5 gram Mg EDTA, at first it appear as it is fully dissolved but few seconds later the prectipation started to form.

 

[Happi]

@X3NiTH this was something I never thought about especially with the Mg EDTA, I never saw any issue because I usually maintain ph of 5-6 for my micro stock solution. Looks like same issue would occur with Ca EDTA unless it was kept in the ph of 5 or so.

I wonder what is happening to those people who are dropping their solution ph to low amount lower than 5 while using CSM, Miller, TNC etc. Because the Mg in those products are also Chelated by EDTA. I believe they are prectipating and should see the same problem.

I must admit great job on bringing this up, no one really look into these factors.

Ca EDTA
PH 5-10

Mg EDTA
PH 6-10

Fe EDTA
PH 1.5-6.5

Fe DTPA
PH 1.5-7.5

Fe EDDHA
PH 3.5-10

Mn EDTA
PH 3-10

Cu EDTA
PH 1.5-10

Zn EDTA
PH 2-10

it would appear that PH of 6 would be much better overall PH for the stock solution who want to use EDTA alone or with DTPA/EDDHA Combination

 

[Hanuman]

I think I will add a warning in the calculator for chelated traces and PH.

 

[john779]

I must admit great job on bringing this up, no one really look into these factors.

Thank you and i have also noticed some thing else its on testing will update in few days.

@Hanuman i think not all brands of edta supplier guarente the same ph stability, please check that also.

 

[Hanuman]

@Hanuman i think not all brands of edta supplier guarente the same ph stability, please check that also.

We cannot take into account the PH of all manufacturers. The idea is to simply put a general warning.

 

[Hanuman]

who want to use EDTA alone or with DTPA/EDDHA Combination

Honestly I am not sure why people would want to use individual chelated traces. They are more expensive and don't provide any additional benefit in my opinion for our purpose. The exception would be those using CSM+B or mixed traces, since obviously they have no choice. In any case the choice is there.

 

[Happi]

Honestly I am not sure why people would want to use individual chelated traces. They are more expensive and don't provide any additional benefit in my opinion for our purpose. The exception would be those using CSM+B or mixed traces, since obviously they have no choice. In any case the choice is there.

Sorry I meant to say EDTA chelated fertilizer such as Fe EDTA, Mn EDTA, Zn EDTA or combined with Fe DTPA, Fe EDDHA etc in combination. Maintaining ph of the solution at 6 would be better in such case.

Most people now days are getting into making their own micros so they do need to buy individual traces to accomplish this.

 

[Hanuman]

Yes that's what I understood. I think it's better and cheaper to use non-cheletad traces when possible. The exception being Fe and/or if as I said above one uses a mixed trace product. Traces can be used raw.
As for the PH 6 I think it would be better to keep the PH at around 4-5 unless one decides to use chelated Mg.
As a side note, Mg and Ca are not considered traces and do not appear in the trace DIYTraceCalculator which makes me wonder how was John able to properly calculate the Mg EDTA he used in his recipe.

 

[Happi]

Yes that's what I understood. I think it's better and cheaper to use non-cheletad traces when possible. The exception being Fe and/or if as I said above one uses a mixed trace product. Traces can be used raw.
As for the PH 6 I think it would be better to keep the PH at around 4-5 unless one decides to us chelated Mg.
As a side note, Mg and Ca are not considered traces and do not appear in the trace DIYTraceCalculator which makes me wonder how was John able to properly calculate the Mg EDTA he used in his recipe.

That's what we were talking about, if you skip the Mg EDTA from the recipe, you can keep the ph as low as 3 ph for the solution.

Not sure which method John used to calculate for Mg EDTA, but I can check with my method to see if it was accurately done.

 

[john779]

what i suggest is csm+b is good and better for chelated coz the ratio is nice and there is no much advantage in using seprate salts than just making the work double and in case of MG it docent need to be in edta form i guess plus the csm+b has little mg in edta form and u can just use mgso4 to top up for your desired level...😀

 

[Deano3]

sorry for late reply just wanted to let you know i managed to get a bottle of ferts made up i ended u adding as below

0.5g ascorbic acid
0.2g potassium sorbate
15.85g potassium nitrate
5.42g potassium phosphate
28.60g potassium sulphate
21.90g magnesium sulphate
3.29g trace elements

the list was based on daily dosing by @Hanuman and greatly appreciated , i seemed to be adding a ot less dry powders comparred to what i used to add so will most likely save me money aswel, the list below is what i used to dose

0.2g ascorbic acid
0.2g potassium sorbate
15g potassium nitrate
9g potassium phosphate
40g potassium sulphate
120g magnesium sulphate
6g trace elements

is the current dose and the APT complete classed as a much more lean dosing regime to get the best colours out of plants etc ?
been doing 10ml daily.

thanks again to everyone involoved
Dean

 

[Happi]

@Deano3

10ml daily in how many gallon or liters? and how many ml is your fertilizer solution?

 

[Deano3]

@Deano3

10ml daily in how many gallon or liters? and how many ml is your fertilizer solution?

180l tank and 500ml bottle 👍

 

[Happi]

180l tank and 500ml bottle 👍

180l tank, 500ml Solution, 10 ml daily

15g potassium nitrate
9g potassium phosphate
40g potassium sulphate
120g magnesium sulphate
6g trace elements

NO3 1.022167
N 0.230898
K 0.644500

PO4 0.697900
P 0.227605
K 0.287300

K 1.994382
S 0.817822

Mg 1.314813
S 1.734600

not sure which traces you are adding so I didn't put the numbers there. if you are trying to copy the below numbers, then its not matching with the above.

APT COMPLETE:

Each 5ml per 100L dose adds 3.8ppm Potassium (K), 1.8ppm Nitrogen (NO3), 0.7ppm Phosphorus (PO4), 0.05ppm Iron (Fe), 0.4ppm Magnesium (Mg) and additional amounts of Boron (B), Copper (Cu), Manganese (Mn), Molybdenum (Mo) and Zinc (Zn).

The above dosage is designed to be dosed 4 times a week. So the total per week adds up to: 15.2ppm Potassium (K), 7.2ppm Nitrogen (NO3), 2.8ppm Phosphorus (PO4), 0.2ppm Iron (Fe), 1.6ppm Magnesium (Mg) and additional amounts of Boron (B), Copper (Cu), Manganese (Mn), Molybdenum (Mo) and Zinc (Zn).

 

[Happi]

@Deano3​

180l tank, 500ml Solution, 10 ml daily

26.42 grams KNO3
NO3 1.8
N 0.406
K 1.13

47.7 K2SO4
K 2.378
S 0.975

9.03 grams KH2PO4
PO4 0.7
P 0.228
K 0.288

36.51 grams MgSO4.7H2O
Mg 0.4
S 0.527

10ml per 180 will add the following:
3.8ppm Potassium (K), 1.8ppm Nitrogen (NO3), 0.7ppm Phosphorus (PO4), 0.4ppm Magnesium (Mg)

 

[Hanuman]

if you are trying to copy the below numbers, then its not matching with the above.

I believe that was his previous recipe before trying out APT and making the new recipe with the calculator hence why it doesn't match APT.

180l tank, 500ml Solution, 10 ml daily

26.42 grams KNO3
NO3 1.8
N 0.406
K 1.13

47.7 K2SO4
K 2.378
S 0.975

9.03 grams KH2PO4
PO4 0.7
P 0.228
K 0.288

36.51 grams MgSO4.7H2O
Mg 0.4
S 0.527

10ml per 180 will add the following:
3.8ppm Potassium (K), 1.8ppm Nitrogen (NO3), 0.7ppm Phosphorus (PO4), 0.4ppm Magnesium (Mg)

When I read daily, I read/interpret 7x per week. Those amounts you are proposing are ok for 4x per week dosing, not daily, else he will be overdosing beyond APT targets.

I ended u adding as below

0.5g ascorbic acid
0.2g potassium sorbate
15.85g potassium nitrate
5.42g potassium phosphate
28.60g potassium sulphate
21.90g magnesium sulphate
3.29g trace elements

This recipe is fine and will reach the intended APT targets as long as you dose 10ml daily (7x week).