Hey Hanuman, I'm not suggesting that you're wrong but I'm curious as to why RO/DI or distilled water is necessary? Only because I've been using tap water for years seemingly without any issues. Happy to be enlightened!
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Anyone have fert list to make 2hr aquarist APT Complete please.
- Thread starter Deano3
- Start date
You are most certainly one of the lucky people who have water that is very soft and probably deprived of many minerals, OR you have been producing fertilizers that are so lean to the point where no interaction occurs.
When you produce a fertilizer, you want to have the purest water possible (you can also use rain water if you live in a rural area where no known air contaminants are present) to prevent any interactions that could happen between what is in the water and what you are adding. You don't know for a fact what is in the tap water you are using. Tomorrow it could be different. Also, if you are preparing a fertilizer with specific ppm values, using tap water will basically screw that. You could very well be doubling or tripling or more your nitrate, K or P or whatever element you are adding.
That is why using the purest water possible is advisable.
When you produce a fertilizer, you want to have the purest water possible (you can also use rain water if you live in a rural area where no known air contaminants are present) to prevent any interactions that could happen between what is in the water and what you are adding. You don't know for a fact what is in the tap water you are using. Tomorrow it could be different. Also, if you are preparing a fertilizer with specific ppm values, using tap water will basically screw that. You could very well be doubling or tripling or more your nitrate, K or P or whatever element you are adding.
That is why using the purest water possible is advisable.
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Hi all,
cheers Darrel
It is really only because it is likely to contain ions (Ca++, HCO3-, PO4--- etc) that can form <"insoluble compounds"> in your concentrated fertiliser mix.
This is also an issue, although in most cases the dilution factor will make this less relevant.
cheers Darrel
Deano3
Member
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- 8 Feb 2012
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- 2,485
Thanks so much @Hanuman and @Zeus and @dw1305 most appreciated.
I will be doing daily dosing to keep simple and hopefully adding all dry powders one at a time and shaking in between as I always have will be fine.
You are all very knowledgeable at this and a huge help to me, the reason I asked if 10ml was due to that being every 4 days however I will dose 10ml daily and see how get on just wasnt sure.
Also I have always used cooled boiled tap water for my ferts so would you strongly advise againt that ? I don't have rodi but could buy bottled water.
I will be making this up when finish work next week 😁
Dean
I will be doing daily dosing to keep simple and hopefully adding all dry powders one at a time and shaking in between as I always have will be fine.
You are all very knowledgeable at this and a huge help to me, the reason I asked if 10ml was due to that being every 4 days however I will dose 10ml daily and see how get on just wasnt sure.
Also I have always used cooled boiled tap water for my ferts so would you strongly advise againt that ? I don't have rodi but could buy bottled water.
I will be making this up when finish work next week 😁
Dean
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
No, boiled should be OK, the dKH, the calcium (Ca) and bicarbonate (HCO3-), will precipitate out limestone (CaCO3) "scale" as the water approaches boiling and loses all it dissolved gases. You need to pour the water out of the kettle carefully when it has just boiled or the "scale" will dissolve and the Ca++ and HCO3- ions will go back into solution as the water cools and CO2 diffuses back in.
cheers Darrel
Just add the ascorbic acid and potassium sorbate to the water FIRST before any other salts 😉
@Zeus. @Hanuman Actually recently i tried all in one fertz
Container size: 500ml
Dose size: 10ml for 100Litre
Chemicals used:
(NPK)
KNO3
K2SO4
KH2PO4
(Micro).
DTPA Fe 11%
EDTA Mg
EDTA Mn
EDTA Cu
EDTA Zi
H3BO3 ( B )
Na₂MoO₄ (Mo)
Procedure
500ml deionised water added Asorbic Acid 0.5g and Potassium sorbate 0.2g
AFTER ADDING THE ABOVE CHEMICALS PH WAS AROUND 2.75TO 3 PH
Then added the KNO3 ,KH2PO4, K2SO4
followed with other micro nutrients listed above but when i added EDTA MG to reach the desired PPM given below the PH started to increased around 5.8-6 plus and precipitated in few minutes
Targeted ppm as follows
NPK:
N:1.8 NO3
P: 0.7 PO4
K: 4 ppm
MICRO:
Mg0.39
Fe0.050
Mn0.039
B0.004
Cu0.003
Mo0.002
Zn0.002
my question are:
1.is there is different method to follow when using EDTA MG
2. its just i cant use EDTA MG to reach the above target
3. Should the Amount of asorbic , pottasium sorbate should be increased or some other acids should be used when doing this.
4.or is there some thing to do with the macro chemicals i used (like it has to be replaced with other NPK source)
Container size: 500ml
Dose size: 10ml for 100Litre
Chemicals used:
(NPK)
KNO3
K2SO4
KH2PO4
(Micro).
DTPA Fe 11%
EDTA Mg
EDTA Mn
EDTA Cu
EDTA Zi
H3BO3 ( B )
Na₂MoO₄ (Mo)
Procedure
500ml deionised water added Asorbic Acid 0.5g and Potassium sorbate 0.2g
AFTER ADDING THE ABOVE CHEMICALS PH WAS AROUND 2.75TO 3 PH
Then added the KNO3 ,KH2PO4, K2SO4
followed with other micro nutrients listed above but when i added EDTA MG to reach the desired PPM given below the PH started to increased around 5.8-6 plus and precipitated in few minutes
Targeted ppm as follows
NPK:
N:1.8 NO3
P: 0.7 PO4
K: 4 ppm
MICRO:
Mg0.39
Fe0.050
Mn0.039
B0.004
Cu0.003
Mo0.002
Zn0.002
my question are:
1.is there is different method to follow when using EDTA MG
2. its just i cant use EDTA MG to reach the above target
3. Should the Amount of asorbic , pottasium sorbate should be increased or some other acids should be used when doing this.
4.or is there some thing to do with the macro chemicals i used (like it has to be replaced with other NPK source)
Last edited:
1. Why are you using Mg EDTA when MgSO4:7H2O is enough and cheaper
2. You should add the Asorbic Acid 0.5g and Potassium sorbate 0.2g then the traces -
Mixing order recommendation (suggested by X3NiTH):
① Zinc compound first as it can precipitate if the water is not properly acidified (re-acidifying the water results in Zinc oxidizing and becoming plant unavailable) ② Manganese next as it is generally the next heaviest mass of compound to add ③ then Boric Acid ④ then Copper ⑤ then Sodium Molybdate ⑥ then Nickel ⑦ then Cobalt ⑧ Last Iron because it will change the colour of the mixture and masks any potential precipitate formation from other compounds.
then add the Macros
@X3NiTH / @dw1305 may have a better insight as their chemistry is better and plants requirements are than mine 😉
good to see you trying EDTA Mg John, you can also add Ca EDTA to the micro if you wished, but 0.39 ppm Mg EDTA will be adding quite good amount of EDTA as a results, honestly there is no need to Chelate the Mg.
instead of Asrobic acid, have you tried using the Vinegar and see if you notice any issue? my major concern is Copper and asrobic acid reacting in the solution. which looks like a brown/red precipitation.
So in the order list i dont see magnesium is it added along with the macro part mixed after the micro& trace are mixed ? I mean along with other macros KNO3 ,KH2PO4, K2SO4. ??
far as APT Micro goes, I believe it is based on the Custom Micro Thread and from others who were working with making their own micros, this is the Inside Information.
also APT likely used Non chelated Micros except Fe, which is Fe DTPA. possibly added some Fe Gluconate to it as well.
APT or any other fertilizer is not a magic fertilizer, when you can make your own at home.
also APT likely used Non chelated Micros except Fe, which is Fe DTPA. possibly added some Fe Gluconate to it as well.
APT or any other fertilizer is not a magic fertilizer, when you can make your own at home.
1. Water
2. Asorbic Acid and Potassium sorbate
3. Macros (including Mg - Mg is not considered a trace for our purposes). If you notice it is not on the trace calculator
4. Traces as per the order in the calculator
As per advised by Zeus I would also use MgSO4.7H2O or MgSO4. or possibly MgCl2.6H2O (although more expensive).
Try again with the above and let us know how it goes.
I will try preparing an AIO myself this weekend as I have been wanting to do this for a long time for testing purposes. I will be using MgSO4.7H2O and non-chelated traces.
No, APT micros on the calculator are based on Fe target. So those micros will varie depending which commercial trace product you use to prepare the solution. That's the best we can do considering trace breakdown and % is not divulged to the public. For commercial products that provide such breakdown and % one can use the DIYTraceCalculator to replicate the trace side of the fertilizer.
Possible, but its owner, which I have been in contact with, does not want to divulge that information so we can all assume.
@X3NiTH in one of your other replied to a post CLICK-HERE-FOR-REFERENCE
U have asked to add phosphate and check the ph and if the ph is increased above 4 u have asked to add more acid to maintain ph below 4 ? So in your view the final solutions ph should be preferable below 4 ph
U have asked to add phosphate and check the ph and if the ph is increased above 4 u have asked to add more acid to maintain ph below 4 ? So in your view the final solutions ph should be preferable below 4 ph
Tested with the following
one fertz
Container size: 500ml
Dose size: 10ml for 100Litre
Chemicals used:
(NPK)
KNO3
K2SO4
KH2PO4
(Micro).
DTPA Fe 11%
MGSO4.7h2o
EDTA Mn
EDTA Cu
EDTA Zi
H3BO3 ( B )
Na₂MoO₄ (Mo)
Procedure
500ml deionised water added Asorbic Acid 0.5g and Potassium sorbate 0.2g
Then added the KNO3 ,KH2PO4, K2SO4 ,MGSO4. Followed with other micro nutrients listed above but then i got a clear solution but when its kept untouched a hour or more i see some kinda of presipitat or dk how to describe it but very low in amount but it docent settle at the bottom looks like its stays floated and very hard to notice i had to look carefully to see that and when i shake it i think it disappears i see a clear solution but it happens again when un touched
Targeted ppm as follows
NPK:
N:1.8 NO3
P: 1.5 PO4
K: 4 ppm
MICRO:
Mg0.39
Fe0.050
Mn0.039
B0.004
Cu0.003
Mo0.002
Zn0.002
X3NiTH
Member
- Joined
- 13 Apr 2014
- Messages
- 1,667
The precipitation problem with MgEDTA is that it’s only stable between pH6-10 so adding it into a solution at pH2.7-3 will cause the complex to dissociate into free EDTA and Mg, both may precipitate, EDTA as EDTA and Mg as anything it can find to complex with other than EDTA in order to equilibriate any charge imbalance in the mixture.
If making an all in one that has to be acidified to a low pH to keep Iron available then use unchelated Macro salts, don’t use any more EDTA than you have to.
🙂
If making an all in one that has to be acidified to a low pH to keep Iron available then use unchelated Macro salts, don’t use any more EDTA than you have to.
🙂
X3NiTH
Member
- Joined
- 13 Apr 2014
- Messages
- 1,667
Zinc Hydroxide does this, it doesn’t form a sedimenting precipitate unless it’s oxidised (the oxide is a black precipitate) it stays in suspension looking a bit like paper pulp in the water. I am unsure in this instance what precipitation product you may have as long as the water was acidified before the zinc went in and then stayed relatively low then it shouldn’t precipitate.
0.25g of Ascorbic acid is all you need to get a pH low enough around pH3.5 for the traces in 500ml of water. Try a batch with a lower amount of Ascorbic and see if there is any difference.
🙂
