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Andys HC propagator step by step
- Thread starter Andy Thurston
- Start date
Costa
Member
Holy crap I had no idea! So all they do is pot some starter plants and they just grow emersed, under the sun?!
Hi all,
There is some <"comment here"> and a video;
cheers Darrel
Like "@Edvet" says all the European companies do.
There is some <"comment here"> and a video;
cheers Darrel
Edvet
Member
Hence some plants, which can only grow submerged, are not readily available, and can only been gotten from other plant enthousiasts.
Hi all,
I understand the commercial realities of plant production, but I think there is a real problem with trying to convince people that plants are the answer to their water quality problems when they buy an <"aquatic plant"> that isn't aquatic at all, or one that has to adapt from have been <"grown emersed"> in, at least, 400 ppm CO2 to the ~2ppm of CO2 in tank water.
I understand that the aquatics industry (and all other industries) have a commercial imperative to sell ion-exchange resins, new wonder substrates etc., and telling people that floating plants (that you only ever have to buy once) are the answer to water quality isn't a great move commercially.
I also think this is why Diana Walstad had to publish the wonderful <"The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium"> privately, it wasn't that it wasn't worth publishing, it was more an effort to "shoot the messenger" so the good news didn't get out.
I'm also concerned by the packaged plants sold by <"Pets at Home">. My worry is that if they don't sell in sufficient volume (and I'm not sure they will) that even fewer shops will sell plants.
cheers Darrel
That is my real issue.
I understand the commercial realities of plant production, but I think there is a real problem with trying to convince people that plants are the answer to their water quality problems when they buy an <"aquatic plant"> that isn't aquatic at all, or one that has to adapt from have been <"grown emersed"> in, at least, 400 ppm CO2 to the ~2ppm of CO2 in tank water.
I understand that the aquatics industry (and all other industries) have a commercial imperative to sell ion-exchange resins, new wonder substrates etc., and telling people that floating plants (that you only ever have to buy once) are the answer to water quality isn't a great move commercially.
I also think this is why Diana Walstad had to publish the wonderful <"The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium"> privately, it wasn't that it wasn't worth publishing, it was more an effort to "shoot the messenger" so the good news didn't get out.
I'm also concerned by the packaged plants sold by <"Pets at Home">. My worry is that if they don't sell in sufficient volume (and I'm not sure they will) that even fewer shops will sell plants.
cheers Darrel
Edvet
Member
Selling tissue cultured plants would free the way for obligate (true) submersed plants. I see pots of Eichornia azurea now for instance
Costa
Member
Right so how are tissue cultures produced? Emersed or immersed?
Hi all,
Eichornia azurea is a bit of strange one in that it has a submerged stem, but as soon as it gets to the surface it will produce floating leaves (Heteranthera zosteriifolia does this as well) and my suspicion would be that these leaves are the source for the tissue-cultured material.
cheers Darrel
They are cultured emersed on Agar, but in a sealed container at 100% humidity. My suspicion is that no obligate aquatic plants are being tissue cultured (or even can be? @Mick.Dk?).
Eichornia azurea is a bit of strange one in that it has a submerged stem, but as soon as it gets to the surface it will produce floating leaves (Heteranthera zosteriifolia does this as well) and my suspicion would be that these leaves are the source for the tissue-cultured material.
cheers Darrel
zozo
Member
I think we are taken for a ride with this one.. It says Eichhornia azurea - In Vitro Cup.
Well it's not totaly untrue, it indeed is in such a cup when you receive it.. But something in the back in my skull says, it didn't grow in there like that..
If i had any space for one at the moment i would love to order a cup and see. I have my doubts..
Andy Thurston
Member
- Joined
- 16 Apr 2013
- Messages
- 2,813
That's exactly what I'm suggesting...
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/ukaps-visit-tropica-denmark-2010.10103/
Have a read of that thread 🙂
Costa
Member
Thank you Andy!
I've been trying this method after loosing my first batch of Micranthemum. This time I setup 2 heated propagators, one MC and one HC but it looks they're both headed the same way!
I'm having a hard time keeping the water topped up without it being soaked - can you run these propagators totally dry or is that a fire risk?
Day 1 (only got a photo of the HC)
Day 24 HC (excuse the blurry shot)
Day 24 MC
Grateful for any pointers - I'm thinking less water, more light. @Konsa already gave me some tips re it being too wet on my first go but having backed it off, I'm still not having any joy!
Thanks.
I'm having a hard time keeping the water topped up without it being soaked - can you run these propagators totally dry or is that a fire risk?
Day 1 (only got a photo of the HC)
Day 24 HC (excuse the blurry shot)
Day 24 MC
Grateful for any pointers - I'm thinking less water, more light. @Konsa already gave me some tips re it being too wet on my first go but having backed it off, I'm still not having any joy!
Thanks.
tam
Member
- Joined
- 5 May 2011
- Messages
- 1,578
Check your propagator instructions, some are the other way - don't run wet. I grew mine with just damp soil and a cover, no standing water. Also not heated above room temp, but it is winter so you might need a bit more warmth depending where you are keeping them.
What light are you using?
What light are you using?
Thanks @tam - I read the instructions cover to cover but there's hardly any useful pointers in there, it says either use capillary matting, or if you don't want containers in the propagator to water the compost cautiously.
Not really sure how to water it cautiously! lol.
I have the same model propagator that Andy used so hopefully it's just a lighting thing - I've been reading up about propagators and some people use matting, some use sand, some use nothing at all, I guess it comes with experience.
Lighting wise, I have a couple of LED lamps running, 1 is 13.5w 6500k 1055lm, the other is 9w 6000k 800lm.
I just measured up and the lights are between 2.5 - 3 feet from the soil, so nearly a meter for the farthest (they light a shelving unit that has everything I'm growing on it).
I might try and shift the propagators nearer the lights and see what happens.
Thanks.
Not really sure how to water it cautiously! lol.
I have the same model propagator that Andy used so hopefully it's just a lighting thing - I've been reading up about propagators and some people use matting, some use sand, some use nothing at all, I guess it comes with experience.
Lighting wise, I have a couple of LED lamps running, 1 is 13.5w 6500k 1055lm, the other is 9w 6000k 800lm.
I just measured up and the lights are between 2.5 - 3 feet from the soil, so nearly a meter for the farthest (they light a shelving unit that has everything I'm growing on it).
I might try and shift the propagators nearer the lights and see what happens.
Thanks.
tam
Member
- Joined
- 5 May 2011
- Messages
- 1,578
I've only tried on window sills/outdoors rather than artificial light.
For 'cautious' watering sneak up on your plants, gently place in a tray of water, tip toe away for about ten minutes and then, checking your mirrors, return and remove them from the water. This gives enough time for the soil to soak up all the water it can hold, so you then don't need to leave them in any standing water. As they've been in sitting in water, you could just tip away what's currently in the container as they are pre-soaked. If you place a clear cover over you'll create humidity and prevent evaporation, and basically shouldn't have to water again for awhile.
It seems weird as we are growing plants that we usually keep completely submersed, but everything I tried was very happy just in slightly damp soil (top soil/soil based compost you get from the garden centre) on a window sill at room temperature. Wish I found them so easy under water!
For 'cautious' watering sneak up on your plants, gently place in a tray of water, tip toe away for about ten minutes and then, checking your mirrors, return and remove them from the water. This gives enough time for the soil to soak up all the water it can hold, so you then don't need to leave them in any standing water. As they've been in sitting in water, you could just tip away what's currently in the container as they are pre-soaked. If you place a clear cover over you'll create humidity and prevent evaporation, and basically shouldn't have to water again for awhile.
It seems weird as we are growing plants that we usually keep completely submersed, but everything I tried was very happy just in slightly damp soil (top soil/soil based compost you get from the garden centre) on a window sill at room temperature. Wish I found them so easy under water!
Edvet
Member
I would get them closer
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
That would be my guess as well. If you can, I'd try a S. facing window-sill or @EdVet's suggestion.
cheers Darrel
You need more light, if you want faster growth!
You can grow in damp or soaking soil.
We strive to give our water filled aquarium plants as much C02 as possible aiming for around 30ppm and then we match the light source to that relatively low amount of C02.
In your propagator you will have around 400ppm of C02 so you can up the ligh considerably!
You can grow in damp or soaking soil.
We strive to give our water filled aquarium plants as much C02 as possible aiming for around 30ppm and then we match the light source to that relatively low amount of C02.
In your propagator you will have around 400ppm of C02 so you can up the ligh considerably!
What kind of soil are you using?
I ran mine with a lot more water than that (almost at soil top level) and it was just fine, just keep the vents half to fully open. If the room temp is too hot in Mars, you should unplug the propagators.
You have the lights too far away... Had a chihiros A-Series at 70% intensity just a couple of inches above the propagator and sprayed water with a tiny amount of ferts once or twice a week.
1 week and a half
3 weeks
You can check my Journal "One Tree Hills" (link in my signature) for more info.
I ran mine with a lot more water than that (almost at soil top level) and it was just fine, just keep the vents half to fully open. If the room temp is too hot in Mars, you should unplug the propagators.
You have the lights too far away... Had a chihiros A-Series at 70% intensity just a couple of inches above the propagator and sprayed water with a tiny amount of ferts once or twice a week.
1 week and a half
3 weeks
You can check my Journal "One Tree Hills" (link in my signature) for more info.
Hi all,
@Kadoxu's plants show the sort of growth you could get during spring or summer.
cheers Darrel
A lot of it is down to time of the year. November and December are poor times to try and grow plants inside, because of the low ambient light levels and short days. If you can keep them ticking over they should do better once the day length starts to improve in February.Had a chihiros A-Series at 70% intensity just a couple of inches above the propagator and sprayed water with a tiny amount of ferts once or twice a week.
1 week and a half
3 weeks
@Kadoxu's plants show the sort of growth you could get during spring or summer.
cheers Darrel
