Above 8

[hax47]

A quick update.

In the 160l tank not much interesting is happening. The cord in the left corner is now hidden by the plants, the one in the middle will be hopefully also hidden by the rotalas soon.



And the tank has new inhabitants. The older cypris were moved to the 900l tank, and the new babies now go to a non-CO2 tank. These Swabwa resplendent fish are my new favorites:


In the Dutch tank, I have put a sponge filter on the intake of the powerhead. In a few days, it has made a huge difference in water clarity. The tank starts to look like I imagined at the start, but still needs some small details, like the barely visible H'ra in the back, the Nesaea gold in the left (not visible yet), and the Hygrophila corimbosa. They all need to grow, hopefully, they will. I like the corimbosa already, it is a little bit differently colored than the lobelia before it, making some contrast there.

I should put in some fish, but they would probably ruin my Amano shrimp-raising plans. I am thinking about some blue neon tetras. Small enough to have a group of them, and simple colored enough to balance out the variety of the plants a little bit. My favorite would be a single nice betta though, but the water temperature is probably a little bit too cold for that fish, 23 ˚C.

 

[hax47]

An update on the new tank... It has not been a success story so far. It has been a bit neglected, but I planted it around the end of January with 5 pots of Utricularia graminifolia. It was funny; the plant grew in the tissue culture dish in every direction, resulting in a pillow of plants in every pot. From the outside, the plant appeared green all around, and the middle of the pillow was white; I guess that was supposed to be the roots... Anyway, I planted them. After a few days, they started to float and were nicely collected in huge clumps at the surface. I replanted them again, trying to push them as deep as possible, but after some time, they floated again... This was repeated a few times.

About two weeks ago, I discarded all the remaining plants and turned off the lights to get rid of the algae as well. A dark restart... The plan was, in case of failure with UG, to try either monte carlo or Hemianthus micranthemoides. However, since Lilaeopsis brasiliensis grows so well in the other tank, I will give it a try first. This time, I will also add a lot of frogbit on the top until the carpeting plant takes over the tank to discourage the algae on the rocks a little bit.

This is the moment before I cleaned out the plants:

 

[hax47]

Three weeks ago, I planted the Lilaeopsis brasiliensis, and it's now showing signs of new shoots sprouting here and there. I have also put some frogbit and duckweed into the tank for a smoother start. The lighting intensity is approximately half of what's in the Dutch tank. I plan to enhance it a bit; I just need to find some free time to assemble the additional lights.
I also put additional rocks in the front to break the unsightly look of the big rock with the flat front.
I took the picture after 9 pm when one of the two lights had already been switched off. Although it's not this dark during the day, I like the late evening shady ambiance it creates.

 

[MichaelJ]

Hi @hax47 Wow you got some long roots on those floating plants (Frogbit?). In one of my tanks I keep the dosing really low (NPK) and my Frogbit roots gets really long as well but the Frogbit don't procreate as much, but the individual plants are big... On the other hand, in my other tank were I dose more (NPK) my Frogbit have really short roots, procreates like crazy and the plants remain small (I try only to weed out the smaller specimens). Are you seeing something similar (low procreation and large individual plants) ?


Cheers,
Michael

 

[hax47]

Are you seeing something similar (low procreation and large individual plants) ?

I dose NPK at what I think is a higher level, but in all my tanks, the roots seem to be equally long. The leaves are not too big in this tank:


The tube is the scalebar - 4.5 cm.

In the 160 l tank, with approximately the same dosing, but more light and more plant mass, I get bigger frogbit leaves, but the roots seem to be still long:



I am not sure about the procreation, I remove some plants from time to time, but I don't know if that rate is slow or not. But it sounds logical that if a plant procreates faster it has less time to grow plant mass and long roots. And although I dose lots of ferts, I also have hard/alkaline water which could limit the uptake of some nutrients. I used to struggle with iron dosing for some time, but I suspect there might be other uptake problems too.

 

[hax47]

There is an interesting thing about the duckweed index though that I noticed. I always had fewer problems with the frogbit in my 900L tank than in the other ones. I suspected that it might be the different lighting intensity. On the 900l tank, I have much less light than on the 120 - and 160L ones. Sounds, logical, with less light the drive for the plants to grow is weaker and less likely to have deficiencies. I started cutting back on the iron dosing in the 900L tank lately, and I noticed something interesting yesterday. Check the frogbit directly under the lamp, and a little bit farther away in the aquarium at the bottom of the images:



In the second one, we can see the position of the lamp, but the coloration of the new leaves is more visible in the left photo. Under the light there seems to be some iron deficiency, but not in the corner/at the bottom, where the lighting is less intense.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Sounds, logical, with less light the drive for the plants to grow is weaker and less likely to have deficiencies. I started cutting back on the iron dosing in the 900L tank lately, and I noticed something interesting yesterday. Check the frogbit directly under the lamp, and a little bit farther away in the aquarium at the bottom of the images:

I think that makes perfect sense. One of the advantages of my <"original duckweed (Lemna minor)"> was that its faster growth rate allowed a quicker diagnosis of nutrient deficiency (and their subsequent recovery).

As you have both old and new "duckweeds", what does your Lemna look like? I would expect it would begin to <"show deficiency symptoms">, in the new leaves, before the Limnobium (Hydrocharis) laevigatum did.

cheers Darrel

 

[hax47]

As you have both old and new "duckweeds", what does your Lemna look like? I would expect it would begin to <"show deficiency symptoms">, in the new leaves, before the Limnobium (Hydrocharis) laevigatum did.

I am not sure, as a color-blind I am not good at differentiating the shades of colors. That's why I like the frogbit, it has a better contrast between leaves on the same plant. I took some out, put them next to each other, and took pictures; I am not sure, maybe some leaves on the left side (from under the lamp) are a bit brighter than on the right side (from the side of the aquarium).

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I am not sure, as a color-blind I am not good at differentiating the shades of colors.

Red green colour blindness does add another <"layer of complexity">.

... This iron deficient Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) (thank-you to @jameson_uk for the photo, from <"Duckweed Index says Nitrogen please?">). I'm sure @jameson_uk won't mind me mentioning that he is <"red-green colour blind"> and colour blindness does cause an extra level of complexity in judging "greeness"....

I am not sure, maybe some leaves on the left side (from under the lamp) are a bit brighter than on the right side (from the side of the aquarium).

I think so, they look paler green, that could just be a <"lesser need for chlorophyll"> or it could be the start of chlorosis (below).

That's why I like the frogbit, it has a better contrast between leaves on the same plant.

Certainly true, judging leaf colour is definitely easier with a larger leaf.

cheers Darrel

 

[hax47]

It has been a while since the last update. So here is my Dutch tank today:

should put in some fish, but they would probably ruin my Amano shrimp-raising plans. I am thinking about some blue neon tetras. Small enough to have a group of them, and simple colored enough to balance out the variety of the plants a little bit.

I ended up with green neon tetras, 15 of them. They were hiding all day, so I also put 15 endler guppies to encourage them to come out. The plan worked out, but now I have like 40 guppies...
Plantwise, the Nesaea gold, the Hygrophila pinnatifida, and the Rotala h'ra died. The Ludwigia glandulosa is still there, just hiding behind the Hygrophila corymbosa after I topped it a little bit more than I planned.
I somehow had a single Rotala rotundifolia stem in the back, that grew into the place of the h'ra.
I have removed the floating plants, I think I managed to get the right dosing of iron already.

 

[milesjames]

Hi Hax,

Seems like I am late to this journal, was just admiring your dutch tank.

Your nature style aquascaping experience has supported you well with this tank, nice plant health, large leaves to small front to back.

Given the stocking I am assuming this is quite a large tank. What are the dimensions?

Also to make you aware you are not currently maximising the potential of your plant stocking as a Dutch tank. This very obviously has not taken away from the beauty, but not in line with the ethos of the dutch tank.

If you would like some support arrangement-wise, let me know.

M

 

[hax47]

Also to make you aware you are not currently maximising the potential of your plant stocking as a Dutch tank. This very obviously has not taken away from the beauty, but not in line with the ethos of the dutch tank.

Hi Milesjames,

Thank you for the kind words! This is a 120 l tank, 60x50x40 cm, I don't know if it qualifies as a large tank.

large leaves to small front to back

This was partly intentional to create some depth illusion, although most of the plants I am experimenting with are new to me, and it was hard to foresee how they would look and if they would thrive with my water parameters.

I am open to ideas, so don't hold them back if you have any suggestions!

 

[richardcunliffe]

Loving this. I have little to no clue about technical Dutch style but this looks great imo. When milesjames mentioned again that it was Dutch style I did a double take of the image. It's got great lines, almost feels NA style which, personally, I prefer to the prim-ness of traditional Dutch.

 

[hax47]

Loving this. I have little to no clue about technical Dutch style but this looks great imo. When milesjames mentioned again that it was Dutch style I did a double take of the image. It's got great lines, almost feels NA style which, personally, I prefer to the prim-ness of traditional Dutch.

Thanks! I also prefer the NA style over the Dutch style, and I didn't appreciate this style for some time. However, after seeing many amazing Dutch tanks, I decided to try it, and this one is now my favorite among my tanks. I am far from a Dutch expert (I tend to express my biologist/chemist side in this hobby), but I guess, it probably needs some more tidiness and/or separation of the plants to look more Dutchy... Maybe @milesjames can have some ideas on how to shape it further...

 

[milesjames]

Thanks! I also prefer the NA style over the Dutch style, and I didn't appreciate this style for some time. However, after seeing many amazing Dutch tanks, I decided to try it, and this one is now my favorite among my tanks. I am far from a Dutch expert (I tend to express my biologist/chemist side in this hobby), but I guess, it probably needs some more tidiness and/or separation of the plants to look more Dutchy... Maybe @milesjames can have some ideas on how to shape it further...

Of course no problems. So to give it a high end dutch feel you need to think of your tank and the way you trim differently then your standard NA tank. You need to think about your tank having 15cm squares where 10cms of it is going to be where your stems grow, 2.5cms are the gap that allows the water to flow through to give plants nutrients. So looking at your tank dimensions that means you can 12 plants 4x3. So take your hygrophila polysperma and place back right if it doesn't go back that far already. Then trim all back plants starting at 15cm tall and graduate upwards every row of plants to preferred hieght this gives the dutch depth illusion. It is best to trim the last few stems lower this makes the bushes appear to go on for ever.

 

[milesjames]

You have the perfect street starting with your lobelia cardinalis but blocked it with rotala green it looks like. Shift the rotala green to where the hygrophila polysperma was getting to and complete that road it will look awesome going behind the hygrophila corymbosa. Now don't hate me for this suggestion but the rare purple/brown plant needs a new home. It's stopping you widening your road at the front and stealing your empty sand spot this scape requires. The rest I reckon you already know and are choosing to opt away from doing. Just watch your trimming of bushes dutch requires perfect trimming and is really the skill of the style. Can explain more but figured I'd leave it there for now. Let me know if you want more info 👊🙂

 

[milesjames]

Sorry sorry 1 more thing I noticed your mermaid weed needs to move it's in front of your your rotala br. It's shaded and not in a good contrasting area. Place to the right of the lobelia road as a feature plant.

Is front right hydrocotyle tripartita 'japan'?

 

[hax47]

You have the perfect street starting with your lobelia cardinalis but blocked it with rotala green it looks like. Shift the rotala green to where the hygrophila polysperma was getting to and complete that road it will look awesome going behind the hygrophila corymbosa. Now don't hate me for this suggestion but the rare purple/brown plant needs a new home. It's stopping you widening your road at the front and stealing your empty sand spot this scape requires.

Thanks for all the suggestions, very much appreciated! I read through the Dutch style requirements again now, and all your suggestions make sense.

Is front right hydrocotyle tripartita 'japan'?

It is. The plan was to make a curtain with it on the side glass, but I guess it would need some supporting structure. For the same reason, I planted the Hygrophila polysperma on the right side, but it takes up too much space there. Do you have ideas on how I could hide the sides glasses?
Wouldn't be the mermaid weed too tall for a plant so in the middle?

 

[milesjames]

Curtains are hard and require significant work around getting flow just right. You need a diagonal flow from glass lilly pipe and supporting structure.

Tbh I have never made them work great, so can't really advise more than that.

If I ever get the hang of it will let you know 👍