It looks like the plants have been <"iron (Fe) deficient">, but are now recovering.Now, the frogbit seems to have less chlorosis, but the leaves are a bit curly and they still have a few holes. I am not sure if these are new or left there from before.
Hi,How do you put gifs into the journal?
Thanks for your input, I really hope that they are recovering.It looks like the plants have been <"iron (Fe) deficient">, but are now recovering.
I've seen this reticulated, net like, chlorosis a lot in my own tanks, and it was the major reason that I've gone to using a <"hybrid Duckweed Index">.
How do you put gifs into the journal?
Or did you mean to ask how I made the gifs?Hi,
I insert them as any other images.
Yes, exactly that.Do you mean that you overload the Fe/Mg dosing, so you should not worry about it, and any problems would reflect the lack of other nutrients?
I think they are. I'm actually not very good at doing this, and often my Frogbit plants show some signs of iron deficiency and recovery (like yours). I'll be honest I'm a <"pretty lazy and shoddy aquarist">.Thanks for your input, I really hope that they are recovering.
Some of you probably know that I am putting some effort into understanding the gas exchange processes in my aquariums, especially about CO2 (see the experiments). Of course, I also do some CO2 testing in my aquariums, especially since I started dosing carbonated water together with the micros; it is important not to go too high with CO2 since it could be toxic. I think, that since this way the dosing is well-controlled, if done right, it is a safe way of adding CO2. It also produces fluctuating CO2, which has been accused of leading to algae, but I am unsure if this is true.So I changed to daily micro dosing and I dose a little bit more, and have kept dosing micros diluted in carbonated water (made with sodastream):
Two points:the CO2 goes up to 20-30 ppm after adding carbonated water and sinks to about 12 during the first 4-hour period. However, the drop is smaller during the second period, from ~10 ppm to ~5 ppm.
Good point, this contributes to some degree for sure, but based on my previous experiments, I think a big part of the decline is due to photosynthesis. Compared to this previous measurement (here water change increased the CO2) in the same aquarium, I now have a tighter-fitting lid (so less dissipation of CO2 to air). Nevertheless, I expect some equilibration between the water and the headspace in the first hour or so. Here, I think the first decline till about 11 ppm, before the lights were on, corresponded to the equilibrium in the whole aquarium space (water + headspace), and/or equal distribution of CO2 across the whole water volume:(1) CO2 concentration decreases faster in the morning period because the difference between your tank and air equilibrium is higher, therefore gas exchange is higher, too.
Interesting, I guess even plants have some circadian rhythms that control their metabolism during the day. So it might not be just the CO2, then. This may also align with the decreased sunlight in the afternoon, I guess. Not sure if the experiment was conducted under sunlight, but even if not, some parts of the circadian rhythm regulations could be genetically encoded, which might have been adjusted over millions of years. Do they have a photosynthesis intensity profile over the entire photoperiod? I wonder if the morning is the ideal time to push the lights or around noon.(2) Wetzel - Limnology assessed that photosynthesis is less intensive in the afternoon even if the CO2 concentration is maintained constant. Based on some experiments.
I don't recall the details.Interesting, I guess even plants have some circadian rhythms
But the reasoning may go still other way, maybe. In the morning, plants have a long list "TO DO" for which they need to obtain new sugars.
I think a big part of the decline is due to photosynthesis.
In the <"right conditions"> photosynthesis will deplete the CO2 in the water <"pretty efficiently"> and the pH will rise.I had an interesting one today. I won't tell you the location, or context, but it was a pond and the water sample had a dissolved oxygen level of 180% (~20oC, 18mg/L DO) and a pH value of pH 10.5.
You get photorespiration as well in C3 plants, this is partially a mechanism for <"reducing damage from photooxidation"> (back to Clive's <"photon torpedos of light">). Light levels will change during the photoperiod and will always be most intense at midday <"https://www.ccfg.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Conf09_PBurgess.pdf">It could be logical if the carbohydrates would inhibit photosynthesis also when the CO2 is not limited, but I did not dig that deep into plant metabolism. Also, it seems that there is a midday depression in photosynthesis in terrestrial plants, which is partly attributed to the stomatal closure (which limits water evaporation during the temperature rise) and the decrease of intercellular CO2.
This photorespiration is a new thing for me... I feel like the more I dig into something, the stronger my feeling is that I barely scratch the surface with all I understood so far. From a quick search, I see that ammonium production is one of the steps in photorespiration. It might be a dumb question, but what do you think, could ammonia production in plants, due to intensive lighting and photorespiration, play a part in algae growth in aquariums? I know this ammonia is produced intracellularly in plants, but NH3 (unlike NH4+) can diffuse through cell membranes. Also, when searched specifically, I found this, but not much else on the topic: rice leaves seem to release NH3 in relation to photorespiration.You get photorespiration as well in C3 plants, this is partially a mechanism for <"reducing damage from photooxidation"> (back to Clive's <"photon torpedos of light">). Light levels will change during the photoperiod and will always be most intense at midday <"https://www.ccfg.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Conf09_PBurgess.pdf">
I do not know why, but tripartita is the one that enjoys my setup the most, I had to trim it back this weekend. This is the mini version; I had the regular one in the other aquarium before, but it did not grow well; it was with less light and CO2, though. I tend to throw plants into the tank and see what sticks, and this one clearly does well. Thanks for the plant tips, I am actually making plans for a Dutchish-style aquarium and added them to my list of to-be-considered plants. Am I right that the Bolbitus has a bit darker green color?Nice with the Hydrocotyle tripartita. I might have to try that one. I've had what feels like more not-success than success with plants in the "liquid rock" setup, but some good ones for me have been Bolbitus heteroclita ‘Difformis’ (does surprisingly well), Helanthium bolivianum ‘Quadricostatus’ (pretty bombproof), Limnophila sessiflora (very nice, likes more light rather than less).
That would probably be the better way to test this question; it would take out the effect of some of the variables for sure. Dosing at the same pH levels multiple times and watch how long it takes to get back to the same pH.For the CO2 piece, what happens if you keep the light on the whole time and periodically reboost the CO2 levels? Do you find sharpest consumption in the first interval, less in the middle and least at the end? I'm also doing the split lighting periods but not really for any type of good reason other than liking to see the aquarium lit-up and not wanting too much light during the day when I'm off at work (if "too much light during the day" is even a thing).
I think it's unlikely. I don't think ammonia is the algae trigger, in the first place.could ammonia production in plants, due to intensive lighting and photorespiration, play a part in algae growth in aquariums?
Ha same here, I threw the plants into my tanks and see what sticks, some do better than others. Hydrocotyle tripartita is one that does well in my 2 tanks without CO2, and funny when I put them in my vivarium near the water surface ('access to Co2'), they don't particularly do well...I do not know why, but tripartita is the one that enjoys my setup the most, I had to trim it back this weekend. This is the mini version; I had the regular one in the other aquarium before, but it did not grow well; it was with less light and CO2, though. I tend to throw plants into the tank and see what sticks, and this one clearly does well. Thanks for the plant tips, I am actually making plans for a Dutchish-style aquarium and added them to my list of to-be-considered plants. Am I right that the Bolbitus has a bit darker green color?
I only have <"experience in soft water">, but for me it is the <"ultimate low maintenance plant">.Bolbitus for my upcoming nature style tank, I hope it is not a finnicky plant as I have not used it before