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259L bookcase rebirth

Re: 259L bookcase tank - pump engineer advice needed!

as far as i understand it your input pressure will be the same as the output pressure just the input will have an overpressure from atmos > pumped due to the pump not being able to clear out water fast enough
 
Re: How pumps work - help please!

mikeappleby said:
Need help on pumps - any engineers out there? My set up is this:

Intake > AM1000 > Eheim 3000 pump > Hydor > Outlet

I thought it made no difference where the pump was in a loop, as I'd assumed the pressure was the same all the way through (or something!)

I think it might turn out it does make a difference: the flow prior to the pump is (I understand) 'powered' by atmospheric pressure, equivalent to 14.7 PSI or a water column of 34 feet. The pump creates a vacuum just before the impeller blade, and atmospheric pressure pushes the water through - so it essentially works by suction. That's why it's literally impossible to suck water up more than 34 feet.

The flow after the pump is (additionally) powered by the pump motor, which is I have now calculated 4.33 PSI, based on it's ability to deliver a pump head of 3m/10ft).

So where should the AM1000 go if I want the greatest flow through the whole system? After or before the pump? Does it actually matter?

Can anyone with an engineering background help explain this? How does the pump work, is the pressure before and after it the same, and does it make a difference to flow whether an AM1000 is before or after it?
Click to expand...

A very interesting question and while I may not be able to help you directly I think I know someone who can, I'll ask my boss he's an engineer and a good one, I'll try and get an answer for this as soon as I can for you.
 
Re: 259L bookcase tank - pump engineer advice needed!

actually i should ask my old man he's a pump and turbine engineer :)

So that would mean AM1000 better pre pump than post?
Click to expand...

due to the fact reactors reduce flow rate I would assume the best place to put it would be pre-pump where there's an overpressure ie: greater potential flow rate than actual due to the pump being the limiting factor.

I'll drop me dad an email tomorrow about it :)
 
algae bashing

So here's how the tank looks today:

2012-04-14%20at%2022-29-11.jpg


It's a lot more heavily planted now with stauro in the foreground, so am optimistic about plant mass.

2012-04-14%20at%2022-27-13.jpg


But there are some definite algae issues - on the rocks...

2012-04-15%20at%2020-54-50.jpg


...and on various plants:

2012-04-15%20at%2020-54-30.jpg


So needs a bit of a step up:

- Have done a thorough scrub of rocks to get diatoms off, and a couple of big water changes, with hands properly in the tank roughing up the plants and vacuuming the substrate - hope that will sort the brown diatoms
- Dosing 10ml easycarbo every two days (2ml per 50l) - hope that will give the BBA the treatment
- Halving the light, from 4 T5 tubes to 2 T5s - hope that will also sort the diatoms, but worried about HC impact
- Removed as many algae infected leaves as I can

Hoping it sorts the algae out! Anything else I need to do? Considering a blackout to be honest to get rid of all that BBA.
 
Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing

scape is looking good Mike, i would dose the carbo daily though...it's half life only tend to be around 12 hours, dosing every day will keep it consistent.
 
Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing

mikeappleby said:
Algae looking a lot better after even two days. Diatoms almost all gone, BBA in retreat. I love ukaps. Thanks all!
Click to expand...

Seriously ? Its disappearing THAT fast ? :woot: O.M.G. :thumbup:
 
Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing

Showed my boss this thread and he said before the pump would be the best, He did go on to give an explanation but it may as well have been written in transformers symbols.
Thought I'd pass the key part of his speach on tho.
I think it has something to do with the impeller not having to push water through another object.
Not as detailed and concise as I was hoping to provide but I hope this information helps.
 
Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing

Have been playing about with the flow, after reading ceg's advice on another thread on easerthegeezer's tank:

ceg4048 said:
What you most likely have done is to create a collision of flow with one filters energy cancelling or interfering with the other. The powerhead also cancels or possibly reverses the downward movement of the water column.

I don't know why everyone thinks that they can play ping-pong with water. It can never work unless by some miracle the flow energies line up. To optimize distribution in the tank. All flow outlets must be on the same wall, pointing straight ahead in the same direction. The distance between each outlet should be equidistant across the mounting wall. In this way, all flow energies line up and combine to be additive. Any other arrangement results in loss of flow efficiency because fllows will be headed in opposite directions resulting in stagnation. Think about the engine arrangement on a 747. Which way are all engines pointing? What would happen if one were pointed diagonally up and to the left, another down and to the left and the other two diagonally up and down to the right? Which arrangement maximizes the output energy of the jet outflow?

It doesn't matter how much flow you have if you waste it.
Click to expand...

Think I'm doing something similar in this tank, so am going to copy the solution easerthegeezer arrived at:

easerthegeezer said:
Now have both lily pipes coming from either side of the back with the powerhead in the middle. Anyhow, the flow was looking to be an immediate improvement but wasnt until i fed the fish that i really appreciated how well it worked. I figured id leave the filters on and feed brine shrimp and see where they go. Squirted it in the middle of the tank and it all went to the front glass, through the annoying glosso and reached right to the back of the tank. My doubts about the filter output not being enough to go the distance are put to rest.

Took a very quick pic to show setup.
IMG_2249.jpg
Click to expand...

So have done exactly the same with this layout. Can't tell yet what the impact is on the flow - guess will be clear when I feed the fish in the morning. Photos coming soon.

Algae on plants is sorted. But on the rocks it keeps coming back. In retrospect, think my tank hardscape is just asking for it - so much rock space front and back. Should have been much more radical with banking the substrate really high and 'embedding' the rocks more firmly in it, more like the first scape in this video from Amano.




Really shows how high you can get with banking substrate - though imagine his planting regime (cover every inch with new plants the second you plant it up) helps a lot on reducing slippage - and not something I can quite afford :lol:
 
Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing

Here's the photo of the setup - all looking a bit healthier now.

2012-04-23%20at%2020-20-38.jpg


Have ordered in some ramshorn snails too - will breed them up in this tank on all the BBA and hopefully have enough to feed South American Puffers in the other tank by the time it's ready for them...

...do they really not eat plants? Amazing if so. Can't believe haven't heard of them before.
 
Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing

Quick update. Flow still not 100% perfect, so decided to replace the DIY lilly pipes with more straightforward outlets. Am getting quite quick at acrylic now, so only took about 20 mins. Here's the flow from what I had (excuse the algae - hadn't cleaned for a while :silent:):

2012-04-29%20at%2018-56-43.jpg


Out come the tools

2012-04-29%20at%2018-59-33.jpg


Here's the new outlet next to the DIY lilly

2012-04-29%20at%2019-20-43.jpg


And here's the flow improved

2012-04-29%20at%2019-50-47.jpg


Seems a bit better to me. I raise them up at night like this to break up any surface film and oxygenate.

Have also switched over from EasyCarbo to Seachem Excel as the tank isn't totally clear of algae, even with the lower lights and the Ramshorns in. First day today, so will be interesting to see if there's a different result. Various people on this forum seem to think Excel is better.

And here's how it's looking

2012-04-29%20at%2021-46-32.jpg


Quite a bit of growth compared to two weeks ago. Funny how you don't notice it until you compare photos.

2012-04-14%20at%2022-29-11.jpg
 
Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing

Starting to get really nice Mike. whats the stem at the back mate?
 
Shrimp

Popped to the LFS today and came back with 24 Amano shrimp :crazy:, so think I now have about 34 in the tank... Taking a leaf out of Mark Evans' and Takashi Amano's books on that one.

Plus got some Eustralis stellata, which I've always liked

2012-05-05%20at%2021-05-13.jpg


and a plant labelled Rotala bossi, which doesn't seem to exist even on the internet, so have no idea what it is. Can anyone identify this for me? Rather like it.

2012-05-05%20at%2021-04-48.jpg


Pulled out the dark myriophyllum which has been a bit of a design failure on the right hand side (is just depressing), trimmed the stauro and scrubbed the rocks. General all round maintenance. Is looking a lot better I think. Getting there:

2012-05-05%20at%2023-36-00.jpg


Thought worth showing how high the T5s are. Two tubes on normally, four for the photo.
 
Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing

Very nice looking setup you have there mike! It will definitely be looking fantastic when grown in, just curious but are you going to keep the "peak" look or let the plants grow further up round them? maybe adding a few stems to the back

(you have said earlier but I just took a glance through the photos ^^ )
 
Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing

Christor said:
are you going to keep the "peak" look or let the plants grow further up round them? maybe adding a few stems to the back
Click to expand...

Yup that's the plan. There are a load in there, but they're growing slowly. Think they don't get much light.

Here are the amanos at work - six in this section alone

2012-05-06%20at%2007-41-21.jpg


And the stellata already looking nice

2012-05-06%20at%2007-41-33.jpg
 
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