120cm Nature Aquarium

[Luciën]

Do the gara eat bba and doesn't he eat moss?

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[Nick72]

Do the gara eat bba and doesn't he eat moss?

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To my knowledge only SAE will eat BBA.

A Panda Garra will not eat moss.

 

[ChrisD80]

At the weekend I brought home this little fella:
<iframe src="" width="640" height="564" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; fullscreen" allowfullscreen></iframe>
and he has been doing an amazing job cleaning the rockwork,
But...
He has been using his spare time trying to escape. As a precaution I lowered the water so that it was about 6cm below the rim of the glass and even so, using his sucker mouth, he manages to climb up the glass so his body is completely out of the water with his nose right at the rim. This is too stressful for me to watch and I imagine its only a matter of time before he's jumped out and is down on the carpet.
So regretfully he has been moved to my old aquarium which has a cover and he will have to be returned to the shop.

There were no Otocinclus in stock at the LFS due to the global situation, and no clithon snails either, but I bought 3 nerite snails. I have re-introduced a pair of Amano shrimp and will see how they do with the CO2 this time, with an intention to add many more if they do ok.

Another option I thought might be a possibility is a hillstream loach, has anyone any experience with this species in open top aquariums?

 

[ChrisD80]

In other news...

I have still been suffering badly from algae: Brown fluffy stringy algae (diatoms) on everything, black brush algae on the upper parts of the manzanita branches, blue green algae on the sand and some of the moss and staghorn algae on some of the stems at the back. It feels like although the aquarium has plenty of circulation and flow overall, the clouds of brown algae are restricting local flow around the plants so they do not receive the benefit of CO2.

In response I have been doing maintenance at least twice a week, siphoning out as much as I can, removing affected leaves, using a toothbrush etc.

I have now removed all dying/struggling plants including the Monte Carlo and some of the stems to reduce the density of plants at the back and allow for more water movement.

I have also added the second filter and re-positioned the circulation pump.

With my last water change I used part tap water with the RO to introduce some KH, but not sure whether this will remain with the active substrate.

The mosses and hairgrass received their first trims, and I used the moss clippings to cover small pieces of rock, wrapped in cotton thread.

 

[Tom Ryan (@aquascaperay)]

Looking great!!

 

[Onoma1]

I have also had two Amano shrimp in there for two weeks or so but noticed a couple of days ago mid-afternoon that they were lying on the sand on their backs and one was having what appeared to be a fit. I presumed this to be CO2 related so I moved them up near the surface, increased the surface agitation and turned the CO2 off for the day. They were ok that evening. The CO2 came back on the following day per solenoid schedule and they were suffering again in the afternoon so I have moved them back to the old aquarium for now. I have had those shrimp for something like 7/8 years. They have been subjected to CO2 for a long time (at perhaps slightly lower levels (10cc/min) and they were absolutely fine so not sure what's going on

Could this indicate that you are having a rapid PH drop with injection of CO2? Perhaps buffering your water may help resolve this and improve plant growth. I am not an expert, but those people who are told me to focus on plant growth not just removal of algae.

 

[Onoma1]

The advice given to me by @alto when in a similar position was as follows:

"When you see such algae infested leaves, remove as they aren’t contributing anything “net” to the plant but rather costing energy to maintain

Add 12 or so Clithon corona snails as they will eat the bba in the early stages (mature bba is definitely tougher/possibly “bad” tasting), try to find a shop that knows their snails are Clithon species & not simply “Nerite” species

Adding additional shrimp will likely also help especially if you have significant algae - watch shrimp to see what they are eating ... there are some “like” Amano shrimp that are actually better bba consumers
Don’t feed any additional food during this time

While combating algae, increase water changes, 50% daily if possible - clearing away any debris

Check filter for debris as well (likely weekly check of fine mechanical filter media is often enough) - check ASAP though if this isn’t something you’ve done recently

pH profile - I’ve not done one in years, if you have the kits/pH checker go ahead, if your budget is a consideration, then just leave this for now ... you can increase CO2 & observe plants, shrimp

Definitely adjust light - possibly dim (depending), reduce photoperiod to 5-6 h but also note ambient light about tank"

Following @dw1305 advice on adding magnesium dramatically improved the growth of my Buce.

I would add floating plants and use the duckweed index...

Love your scapes and good luck.

 

[ChrisD80]

Could this indicate that you are having a rapid PH drop with injection of CO2? Perhaps buffering your water may help resolve this and improve plant growth. I am not an expert, but those people who are told me to focus on plant growth not just removal of algae.

Hi [mention]Onoma1 [/mention] thanks for your comment.

I am not sure what the exact science behind the shrimp suffering was, you may be right. At the moment I have CO2 set a little lower than it was back then and still achieving desired drop checker colour. I have since reintroduced those shrimp and just a few days ago increased numbers to around 24 I think. They are all looking fine now. It’s just them and one Otocinclus in the tank now so I am not feeding any food in the hope that they get hungry and start having an impact on the diatoms. I feel like I need to add more shrimp though, I think I remember someone mentioning one shrimp per 5litres of water. Unfortunately I am still unable to source any Otocinclus or Clithon Corona from my LFS as they don’t have them
In stock.

With regards to buffering, I am using aqua soil which has a buffering effect. Not sure if that’s what you mean?

I agree about the focus plant growth and will do my best to help them grow.


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[ChrisD80]

[mention]Onoma1 [/mention] Thank you for passing on the advice from [mention]alto [/mention] it all looks sound and I am already or intend follow these approaches at least directionally (when possible).

I am cutting away algae infested leaves where I can. It’s a bit tricky to do this on the stems, which are looking good at the top but speckled with brown lower down.

See post above re Shrimp and snail ambitions.

I currently have reduced lighting to just the Fluval 3.0 unit set at about 80% intensity for 7hrs with a short ramp at either end.

Have reduced TNC dosing to 10ml per day now.

I am doing water changes on average about twice a week now. However using a pumped RO system is not as quick a process as refilling with tap water so more frequent will be difficult and unsustainable for me in the longer term.

I have a couple of floating plant species which were completely taking over the surface so I kept decanting to my old aquarium. But I think I will let the populations build up again.

I am not sure about my magnesium levels. I assume there is some in my GH booster and some in the tap water that I use to cut the RO. I think the buce suffered at the beginning because my lighting was too high and CO2 and flow too low. Some of the plants have started putting out new leaves and showing signs of recovery but it’s fair to say that overall they don’t look great. The first ones that melted have never recovered. If and when I get the tank to settle down I will look to put in some fresh specimens and keep my fingers crossed.

Cheers
Chris


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[ChrisD80]

update:

To my eye the diatoms has been gradually reducing as the weeks went by, and so was the amount of BGA and BBA. I think this was a combination of my new settings: lower lighting, combined with higher flow and CO2 and the more frequent maintenance.

However I was away from home for a week and came back to some ugly scenes (see pics). A number of large fluffy clumps of brown algae, and widespread appearance of smaller blobs and strings of brown algae. Quite a lot of bolbitis and pinnatifida leaves covered in BBA. Patch of BGA in the middle of the sand and traces on some of the mosses.

The water temperature whilst I was away was over 30 degC (vs my target 22 degC) which may not have helped. Especially the health of the mosses which had until now been doing well, and I understand prefer lower temperatures.

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[Krzysztof 82 (Kris)]

Hi Chris,

Just went through Your and members posts and my conclusion of this everything is, that main problem was to much nutrition and light at the beginning. With Amano shrimps having problems it looked like, there was to much CO2, which plant's could not use and produce oxygen for some reason. For sure drop checker/indicator was not helping with identification of the gas level.
Looks like reduced light and nutrition are helping in Your situation.
I do hope everything will go great from now on. Hardscape looks amazing.
Good luck and fingers crossed.

Regards.

 

[Onoma1]

update:

To my eye the diatoms has been gradually reducing as the weeks went by, and so was the amount of BGA and BBA. I think this was a combination of my new settings: lower lighting, combined with higher flow and CO2 and the more frequent maintenance.

However I was away from home for a week and came back to some ugly scenes (see pics). A number of large fluffy clumps of brown algae, and widespread appearance of smaller blobs and strings of brown algae. Quite a lot of bolbitis and pinnatifida leaves covered in BBA. Patch of BGA in the middle of the sand and traces on some of the mosses.

The water temperature whilst I was away was over 30 degC (vs my target 22 degC) which may not have helped. Especially the health of the mosses which had until now been doing well, and I understand prefer lower temperatures.
...

I think you are in good company in relation to the effect of the heat. Given that we didn't reach the high temperatures in the North of England that you experienced in the south
( and could only look on enviously) it wasn't such an issue for me, however, lots of people seemed to be struggling cooling tanks and then dealing with algae blooms when water temperatures increased.

It looks though that before this you got your tank into balance and I am sure you will again. It looks an amazing tank!

 

[rebel]

Wow 30c would cook mosses and even some of those plants. Count yourself lucky.

Those filamentous diatoms can be easily killed by peroxide if you wished.

 

[ChrisD80]

Hi Chris,

Just went through Your and members posts and my conclusion of this everything is, that main problem was to much nutrition and light at the beginning. With Amano shrimps having problems it looked like, there was to much CO2, which plant's could not use and produce oxygen for some reason. For sure drop checker/indicator was not helping with identification of the gas level.
Looks like reduced light and nutrition are helping in Your situation.
I do hope everything will go great from now on. Hardscape looks amazing.
Good luck and fingers crossed.

Regards.

Thanks [mention]Krzysztof 82 (Kris) [/mention]
I suspect you are right with your conclusions. Wish I could turn back time and start off again, but I guess these experiences are how we learn. Not sure I have things exactly as they should just yet be but I will keep going.


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[ChrisD80]

I think you are in good company in relation to the effect of the heat. Given that we didn't reach the high temperatures in the North of England that you experienced in the south
( and could only look on enviously) it wasn't such an issue for me, however, lots of people seemed to be struggling cooling tanks and then dealing with algae blooms when water temperatures increased.

It looks though that before this you got your tank into balance and I am sure you will again. It looks an amazing tank!

Yes it’s crazy that I am now wishing for cold weather when the rest of the population are wanting the sun!

The strange and annoying thing is that now it’s cooler outside, the house is not heated and the room thermostat says 23 degC the aquarium is up around 25 degC. The aquarium heater is not on and the lighting is set at a relatively low level. Puzzled.


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[ChrisD80]

Wow 30c would cook mosses and even some of those plants. Count yourself lucky.

Those filamentous diatoms can be easily killed by peroxide if you wished.

Hi [mention]rebel [/mention]
Thanks for info. Some of the moss species fared worse than others. The vesicularia montagnei, my favourite of the three types, has suffered most turning brown in areas especially those lower layers close to the wood. whereas the taxiphyllum Taiwan is showing no real signs of harm.

I would be interested in treating the diatoms with peroxide to help me fight the war, do you have any advice? Are there any threads that I could read?

I have some 11% food grade hydrogen peroxide, is that what would be used?

Many thanks
Chris


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[rebel]

I have some 11% food grade hydrogen peroxide, is that what would be used?

Yes but will need to dilute heavily. I can't remember the dosing but there are multiple threads. Halve what they recommend.

btw you can just pull some of those diatoms out manually or via siphon also. Safer.

 

[ChrisD80]

Yes but will need to dilute heavily. I can't remember the dosing but there are multiple threads. Halve what they recommend.

btw you can just pull some of those diatoms out manually or via siphon also. Safer.

Having read several threads, there are a range of opinions on the subject. I think for now I will give dosing the hydrogen peroxide a miss. Especially as things are looking relatively good at the moment.

 

[ChrisD80]

I re-did my pH profile the other day now that all drop checkers have fresh pH solution and to reflect current settings. The starting pH at 6.9 is higher than previously (6.5) I believe because I have been mixing in some tap water with the RO to give a little more KH.

CO2 is currently on for 6.5hrs and lighting for about 6hrs including short ramps at either end (Fluval 3.0 set at 80% intensity).

I measured a 0.9 drop and a stable pH through the photo period, I am happy as I believe this is what people recommend?

Looking at the schedule below now though, I think the CO2 is coming on a little early so have since moved back by 30 min, so it now starts at 13:00 and ends at 19:30.

 

[ChrisD80]

Latest shots:

Limnophila Aromatica looking better now. I cleared out most of the other species from this area a few weeks ago to give these stems more space to receive flow and keep combing fingers through them to dislodge diatoms.

Regular pruning has given compact growth in this piece of Hygrophila Pinnatifida .

Fissidens Fontanus, still on its wire mesh, is growing and with time getting more green and less brown as diatoms reduce.

Terrible image quality but this shows the Schismatoglottis Prietoi showing new growth after all the original leaves melted away.
I think I may buy one of the clip on macro lenses for my iPhone to allow me to take close ups.

Letting the quantity of surface plants increase again.

Flame moss, still with some detritus but much better with respect to diatoms.

Taiwan moss fared best in the recent heatwave.

I removed the brown parts of vesicularia montagnei and tied the greener parts back on the branches with cotton thread. Hope it pulls through and regains its previous health.

Cryptocoryne starting to show some growth.

Last remains of monte carlo, hanging on in there.

Poor bucephalandra. I dare not cut off these leaves with BBA or it will have hardly any left.

Bolbitis Heudloti still struggling.

Anubias are doing ok, minor traces of algae.

And a new one from Riverwood Aquatics still in pot acclimating, if this does ok I will add several more.