Red Algae/BBA - An Update

[jaypeecee]

Hi Everyone,

There have been a few recent threads dealing with BBA. So, I decided to do a bit of exploration. And, the following link is a real eye-opener, I think you'll agree:

Hidden introductions of freshwater red algae via the aquarium trade exposed by DNA barcodes

By DNA barcoding ~200 specimens of freshwater red macroalgae from the field and aquaria with the applications of DNA-based algorithm species delimitation, this large-scale survey not only revealed th...

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Although the above article doesn't appear to mention Auoudinella (the family to which BBA belongs), I think it's self-evident how some BBA gets into our tanks. OK, so what to do about it? That's where the next article comes in useful:

Control of Red Algae in the Freshwater Aquarium

Be sure to read the section entitled "Consider CO2." The author, Neil Frank, makes the comment "It seems that red algae may be among those algae and water plants that can only utilize free CO2" (my italics). But, he also points out that "On the other hand, some books suggest that adding CO2 will help eliminate red algae. Although this first appears to be a contradiction to my hypothesis, I believe this method is effective because CO2 injection helps to increase the rate of plant growth. As mentioned earlier, with a large density of plants and bright light, the plants will suck up dissolved nutrients and cause algae to subside".

And, finally, the author includes the section "Use Chemical controls". Please read this section very carefully. Also, note that this Krib* article was written 26 years ago. Nowadays, we are probably less likely to use 'chemicals' - for good reason.

* The Krib (Aquaria and Tropical Fish)

JPC

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi Everyone,

Is this topic really of little interest? Not a single reply. Perhaps BBA is a thing of the past! No worries as I'm not taking it personally - just surprised. 😵

JPC

 

[Hufsa]

It is of interest, I think maybe most of us dont feel like we have anything substantial or new to contribute with, aside from the loose theories that have already been discussed in previous threads.
I was actually just thinking of you @jaypeecee , I am on a journey through the internet (you know how one link will lead to another), and I found an interesting site. It has a section on BBA , I think most of it will be known to you but I was going to send you the link just in case.

 

[jaypeecee]

It is of interest...

Hi @Hufsa

Thanks for your reply.

One of the reasons I drew people's attention to the 'Hidden introductions' bit is because a good few people are possibly introducing BBA into their tanks unknowingly. And then they have the very difficult job of eliminating it. In other words, prevention is a lot better than cure. The other 'half' of my post concerned BBA and CO2. BBA, being a 'red algae' will have access to free CO2 at pH below 8. Estimates as follows:

pH 8.4 CO2 zero
pH 7.0 CO2 18%
pH 6.3 CO2 50%
pH 6.0 CO2 64%

The above figures are the percentage of DIC (dissolved inorganic carbon).

Therefore, in a tank with pH less than 7.0, there is an increased likelihood of BBA growth. That is, unless the tank is heavily planted in which case the plants will uptake the CO2. And the BBA lose out.

That's how I understand it. But, if I've got it wrong, someone please shout.

JPC

 

[John q]

Is this topic really of little interest?

Absolutely jpc, I find it interesting...so to combat bba we need to run our tanks Alkaline, yet most common thinking is plants uptake nutrients better at lower ph than this. What should we do???

 

[Hufsa]

I looked at that article, but I found myself disagreeing with the concept of algae being some sort of illness you can stop yourself from getting. As far as I understand, algae spores are everywhere, in the air and in our tapwater, and trying to prevent "infection" with something so ubiquitous would in my opinion be a pointless, almost sisyphean task.
I think people will be chasing around ghosts instead of focusing on the only thing we have found so far to be effective against BBA, good healthy plant growth.
I havent found many reputable plant experts to say that algae is something you can eliminate at all, most say that all tanks will contain some amount of algae.
The reasonable goal must be to keep algae growth at a level that the aquarist finds acceptable.
Im sorry but I think CO2 and ph and all that is not really relevant for aquarists, people keep BBA "free" (read minimal) tanks at all ph and CO2 levels.

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @Hufsa

As far as I understand, algae spores are everywhere, in the air and in our tapwater...

Sitting alongside me right now, I have an open-topped cube illuminated tank. No signs of algae of any description. pH is 6.6 in this tank and I keep it this way 24/7 with minimal CO2 injection. It is home to Vietnamese Cardinal Minnows. I have one large Java Fern in this tank. So, even if algae spores are airborne, they don't necessarily 'take root' when in water.

JPC

 

[jaypeecee]

Absolutely jpc, I find it interesting...so to combat bba we need to run our tanks Alkaline, yet most common thinking is plants uptake nutrients better at lower ph than this. What should we do???

Hi @John q

I'm not enough of an expert (by any means) to feel confident in telling anyone what to do and what not to do in the aquatics hobby. Instead, my approach is to try to pool together our collective knowledge in the hope of finding solutions to known problems. The more I read, the more I appreciate the sheer complexity of the aquatic environment. But, I'm a physicist at heart so I have a lot to learn in the aquatics hobby. Thus, in answer to your question "What should we do???", I'll quote Stephen Hawking "All we need to do is make sure we keep talking."

JPC

 

[Konsa]

Absolutely jpc, I find it interesting...so to combat bba we need to run our tanks Alkaline, yet most common thinking is plants uptake nutrients better at lower ph than this. What should we do???

Hi
my past experience tells me that BBA has no issues growing in alkaline water too.
Back in the day in my home town where tap water is liquid rock with Ph 8+ due to comming from underground streams running through limestone had gorgeous mats of the damn thing too in multiple tanks.I was a silly teenager back in those days and had my tanks overstocked, overfed and underfiltered tho
Regards Konstantin

 

[jaypeecee]

The reasonable goal must be to keep algae growth at a level that the aquarist finds acceptable.

Hi @Hufsa

I agree 100%.

JPC

 

[jaypeecee]

...my past experience tells me that BBA has no issues growing in alkaline water too.

Hi @Konsa

And, were your plants healthy and growing actively? Was/were the tank(s) heavily planted?

JPC

 

[Konsa]

Hi @Konsa

And, were your plants healthy and growing actively? Was/were the tank(s) heavily planted?

JPC

Hi
yes some of the tanks were planted with internal and sponge filters. Very healthy Cryptocoryne sp, huge Amazon swords,Limnophila sessiliflora, Ludwigia sp (not sure which exact sp tho).All plants absolutely algae free.No ferts whatsoever and inert fine sand substrate.The stems were allowed to overgrow and form thick mats on the surface and everything was growing like crazy. I managed to support myself though high school selling plants and live bearing fish to my LFS.As lighting I was using two old school light bulbs(40 -60w depending on tank depth) only build in on the short sides in my DIY hoods as my tanks were all arround 60 cm wide 40 high max at the time.BBA in the planted tanks was minimal but still present on the hardscape and equipment.
Later started using T8 lights as my tanks got bigger and plant health was not as good and BBA got worse.Water changes were about 25%monthly too if that as this was the time when older the tank water was considered the better.
Regards Konstantin

 

[erwin123]

I have never had BGA in my tanks. GDA is my most common algae for some reason.

For low tech, I have never had BBA, and I move plants from my high tech tank (which has BBA here and there) to my low tech tank all the time.

So for BBA, I think there's some truth in BBA being triggered by organic waste and CO2 instability - because I can look at the differences between my low tech (which has never had BBA), and my high tech. Both have similar water parameters and similar fertilisation regimes. My low tech tank has no CO2 instability problems and is also low energy/ 'shrimp only' tank so it generates less organic waste. So if you have a low tech tank but one that nevertheless generates a lot of organic waste (high fish load etc), then BBA might be present.

One might even argue that water changes disturb the substrate and release more organic waste into the water column - thus triggering BBA? This would happen if the water change doesn't remove the organic waste because so much waste has built up in the substrate (eg: high fish load etc). In which case, it isn't the water change itself but the inability of a single water change to remove the organic waste that has been disturbed/released from the substrate, and the solution would be to adopt a more aggressive substrate cleaning schedule to make up for the lack of previous maintenance?

 

[John q]

"What should we do???", I'll quote Stephen Hawking "All we need to do is make sure we keep talking."

Wise words John.

My question above was intentionally probing. From my own observations the ph levels that most of us encounter in our tanks will have little effect towards bba reproduction/survival.

When my tank was low tech it had a rather large piece of texas holey rock in it, this would push the ph up to 7.6 on water change day, following a water change in returned to 7.4. The tank had small amounts of bba, mainly on the wood and on some slow growing leaf edges.

Same tank with the rock removed and C02 injection. Ph ranges from 7.2 to 6.4. I still get bba on the hardscape and slow growers, no better, no worse than before.

Obviously a lot of other parameters have changed other than ph, most notably light and fertiliser, so my findings are hardly scientific. It does however suggest that ph alone is not that important in our quest to understand the causes of bba.

 

[jaypeecee]

It has a section on BBA , I think most of it will be known to you but I was going to send you the link just in case.

Hi @Hufsa

I forgot to thank you yesterday evening for the link to the aquamax site, so - thank you!

JPC

 

[jaypeecee]

It does however suggest that ph alone is not that important in our quest to understand the causes of bba.

Good morning, @John q

Yes, it's rarely a case of one problem, one cause, isn't it? And that applies with so many things, not just aquatics.

The first part of my OP was looking at the relative ease with which BBA spores are able to hitch-hike a ride on plants, ornaments, etc. into our tanks. That being the case, it makes me wonder what precautions newcomers to the hobby take to mitigate this risk. For many years, I have given new plants a dip in potassium permanganate (KMnO4) solution before adding them to a tank. I have a small amount of KMnO4 crystals that were bought from a chemist/pharmacist years ago. I mix a few of these crystals in water to obtain a rosé wine coloured solution. Then, dip the plants, etc. in this solution for 5 - 10 minutes before adding to my tanks.

JPC

 

[John q]

Morning @jaypeecee

The first part of my OP was looking at the relative ease with which BBA spores are able to hitch-hike a ride on plants, ornaments, etc. into our tanks. That being the case, it makes me wonder what precautions newcomers to the hobby take to mitigate this risk

Regards algae I don't think we can ever stop these spores getting into our tanks. I think Hufsas comment pretty much sums it up.

As far as I understand, algae spores are everywhere, in the air and in our tapwater, and trying to prevent "infection" with something so ubiquitous would in my opinion be a pointless, almost sisyphean task.

Even if we sterilised everything that came into our tanks like water, plants and fish; we would still have to consider the ability of microalgae spores being airborne.

https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/AEM.03333-15

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @John q

Regards algae I don't think we can ever stop these spores getting into our tanks.

Yes, I agree that we clearly cannot prevent airborne spores getting into our tanks. But, as I said in post #7 above, when spores enter the aquarium water, they don't necessarily appear to grow. The $64,000 question is - why? These are difficult questions to answer, aren't they? But, anything we do to reduce the likelihood of algae outbreaks has got to be worth considering in my book. That's why a ten minute dip in potassium permanganate solution, for example, is a no-brainer.

JPC

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi Folks,

I want to add one other piece of information, which seems relevant to me. And this is that the BBA in our tanks appears to be epiphytic, i.e. it typically grows on the edges of leaves where it no doubt has access to a continuous nutrient supply. If the leaves of such plants, e.g. Anubias are not available, then, perhaps BBA is far less likely to grow? Just a thought.

JPC

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

above article doesn't appear to mention Auoudinella (the family to which BBA belongs),

It is an interesting paper. I'm going to say it is Compsopogon coeruleus that is <"genetically very similar in all aquariums">, possibly referenced somewhere in the <"What causes BBA thread">.
The <"Aquamax page"> @Hufsa linked in looks a good summary, this is from the English translation.

..... In experiments, ramshorn snails have shown that they are excellent beard algae killers. From a stock of Riccia rhenana (?) heavily infested with Compsopogon, about 15 quite young ramshorn snails neatly removed all the algae in a few days without damaging the delicate plant......

For BBA reduction I'm personally a <"Ramshorn fan"> as well .

Im sorry but I think CO2 and ph and all that is not really relevant for aquarists, people keep BBA "free" (read minimal) tanks at all ph and CO2 levels.

Back in the day in my home town where tap water is liquid rock with Ph 8+ due to comming from underground streams running through limestone had gorgeous mats of the damn thing

The best / worst BBA I've ever seen was in the pet shop in Corsham (where the water is very hard), it looked just like <"Gorilla fake fur">.

It is really common in the tanks of those <"who keep rheophilic plecs">, these tanks are usually non-planted. You can see the amount of flow in the image from <"Repeat spawning of Dekeyseria picta L052">.



cheers Darrel