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Why doesn't return my DC to blue..?

Mitchel

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17 May 2021
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I have an 80 liter tank. Ada soil and adjusted to 70 bubbles per minute for a nice green yellow drop checker.
During the day (8 hours) the DC stays nicely in color.
In the evening the CO2 stops via a timer, but the next morning (before the CO2 switches on) the DC is still the same color... o_O

There is enough gaseous exchange, so it can't be that. Does it have to do with the aquasoil?
 

plantnoobdude

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17 Mar 2021
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uk
are you sure you have enough gaseous exchange? try putting an airstone or moving the lily pipe so it agitates the water a lot overnight. if it goes back to blue in the morning then you don't have enough agitation. cheers,
 

Gorillastomp

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WE would need a bit more info on your setup, but usually if the DC is still the same color it means your co2 doesn't leave out/degas during the the non injecting hours.

Some points to look at :

  • Using a 4 dkh solution in the DC
  • there is not biofilm on your water surface
  • decent water surface movement to promote gas exchange
 

Mitchel

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are you sure you have enough gaseous exchange? try putting an airstone or moving the lily pipe so it agitates the water a lot overnight. if it goes back to blue in the morning then you don't have enough agitation. cheers,
That's a good idea. I'll take the lily up at night to get more agitation and see what the color is the next morning. 👍
 

Tom Delattre

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France, Avignon
Interesting thread. But is it really important to reach that goal? (I mean, blue drop checker in the morning). Do you really have to have so much gazeous exchange? I remember reading that Amano says to add an air stone at night, so it must be beneficial (and it can't hurt, really) but is it just better to do it or crucial to do it?
Thanks, cheers,
Thomas

Envoyé de mon KB2003 en utilisant Tapatalk
 

Tom Delattre

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Same here, except maybe in my Dooa system aqua 30 which has a LOT of surface agitation and a sump of sorts. In it, the DC drops blue-green if its max is green, dark green if its max is green-yellow.
 

ceg4048

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Interesting thread. But is it really important to reach that goal? (I mean, blue drop checker in the morning). Do you really have to have so much gazeous exchange? I remember reading that Amano says to add an air stone at night, so it must be beneficial (and it can't hurt, really) but is it just better to do it or crucial to do it?
Thanks, cheers,
Thomas
It's not crucial unless you observe the animals in the tank suffering. Oxygen is at it's lowest value in the morning before the lights go on as both animals and plants consume it during the night. The airstone or agitation helps to bring oxygen into the water but should be turned off when the gas is turned on.

Cheers,
 

Zeus.

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The airstone or agitation helps to bring oxygen into the water but should be turned off when the gas is turned on.

I would imagine that a twinstar nano reactor would add some O2 also if running 24/7 - but never read anything to confirm it or deny it ?
 

ceg4048

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I would imagine that a twinstar nano reactor would add some O2 also if running 24/7 - but never read anything to confirm it or deny it ?
Hi Karl,
Well you know, I don't even want to get into the twinstar just because of their bullcrap marketing about how it enables plants to compete against algae, as if nutrients caused algae. All of that is total rubbish as you well know. Having said that however, anything that produces bubbles effectively will help with gas exchange. It's important for people to understand that it is not the bubbles themselves which send oxygen into the water as they rise, but simply that when the bubbles reach the surface they disrupt the surface such that the total surface area of the water/air interface is increased. So it is the atmosphere's oxygen content that is allowed to penetrate the water simply by virtue of the increased surface area. So there is no magic in the twinstar that provides oxygen and folks should not run out in a frenzy to immediately purchase this contraption for that purpose. My point is that ANY bubbles, or method of increasing the surface area of the water/air interface, regardless of how they are produced, will have the same effect of increased gas exchange.

Cheers,
 

Zeus.

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Well you know, I don't even want to get into the twinstar just because of their bullcrap marketing about how it enables plants to compete against algae, as if nutrients caused algae. All of that is total rubbish as you well know.

Agree 100%, I run them for their potential increase in the [O2] at night only 😬, you cant run them for night only as they need to be manually turned on and off as a power cut leaves them off when power returns.
 

Wookii

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Hi Karl,
Well you know, I don't even want to get into the twinstar just because of their bullcrap marketing about how it enables plants to compete against algae, as if nutrients caused algae. All of that is total rubbish as you well know. Having said that however, anything that produces bubbles effectively will help with gas exchange. It's important for people to understand that it is not the bubbles themselves which send oxygen into the water as they rise, but simply that when the bubbles reach the surface they disrupt the surface such that the total surface area of the water/air interface is increased. So it is the atmosphere's oxygen content that is allowed to penetrate the water simply by virtue of the increased surface area. So there is no magic in the twinstar that provides oxygen and folks should not run out in a frenzy to immediately purchase this contraption for that purpose. My point is that ANY bubbles, or method of increasing the surface area of the water/air interface, regardless of how they are produced, will have the same effect of increased gas exchange.

Cheers,

I agree wholeheartedly on Twinstars dreadful marketing for these products, however they are actually, I believe, small electrolysis plates. As such they break down water molecules and produce hydrogen and oxygen gas, and therefore do actually add oxygen to the water column directly.

With the flow typically experienced in a CO2 injected tank, a large proportion of the miniature (nano?) bubbles produced don’t reach the surface and are presumably either adsorbed into the water column or drawn into the filter.

I’ve never managed to convince myself to fork out for a DO meter, but if I was to hypothesise, I’d wager the DO levels are measurably higher in a tank with a Twinstar unit operating, than when the unit is switched off. For that reason I think they are potentially beneficial for newly started tanks, or those with very low plant mass, and perhaps even for low tech tanks.

However for established CO2 injected tanks that likely achieve DO saturation during the photo period, I suspect the Twinstar units are of little benefit.
 

Zeus.

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I agree wholeheartedly on Twinstars dreadful marketing for these products, however they are actually, I believe, small electrolysis plates. As such they break down water molecules and produce hydrogen and oxygen gas

On my 500l I have the reactor fitted so all the micro bubbles go direct into my FX6 filter intake so 1.tank remains gin clear all the time. 2. I Believe that the O2 my help raise the O2 levels in the canister filter, which may help it be less anaerobic and help the breakdown of nitrogen compounds 🤷‍♂️
 

ceg4048

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I’ve never managed to convince myself to fork out for a DO meter, but if I was to hypothesise, I’d wager the DO levels are measurably higher in a tank with a Twinstar unit operating, than when the unit is switched off. For that reason I think they are potentially beneficial for newly started tanks, or those with very low plant mass, and perhaps even for low tech tanks.

However for established CO2 injected tanks that likely achieve DO saturation during the photo period, I suspect the Twinstar units are of little benefit.
That's true. In a CO2 injected tank the unit does not add any more oxygen during the photoperiod because the solubility of oxygen is extremely low. It's the same reason we see oxygen bubbles when the plants are pearling. The oxygen production rate exceeds the solubility. At night (and early in the photoperiod) is when the real advantage occurs as the plants do not produce (or produce very little) oxygen. The overall gain in Oxygen is about 10%-20% (1-2ppm or so) for tanks with canister filters according to Barr, who does have a DO meter (and a CO2 meter - lucky sod).

Cheers,
 
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