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What's your reactions when.....

We have a duty of care and if you decide to ignore the correct information when given then you just shouldn't have animals. Unfortunately extends to all animals in our care. Look at dogs.2 thirds of UK dogs are overweight. "But they hardly eat anything" is the usual response. I'd bite my tongue as saying how depressing it is to know that a small amount of calories is still exceeding what the dog needs because it gets so little exercise would be non productive and better to try and change than insult and isolate, just like your friend and goldfish. Common goldfish should not be sold for tanks. End of. Fancy should be sold as a specialist fish.

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I've really enjoyed the different views expressed - I think ultimately the point of sale is where education is needed most, inappropriate habitats are manufactured as 'easy' - which is obviously a failing as a closed system like a fish tank needs alot of care. Ornaments & coloured substrate is harmless really but so unnecessary as children are facinated with living creatures regardless of the setting anyway. I sadly don't believe things will change as if there is a chance to make money - someone will 🙁 & in the UK people actually choose to have 'fake grass' in their gardens...We can't change the world, only ourselves & hopefully our little ones will follow (I may have started with a biorb but my children wouldn't because they know it's an unhealthy environment...)
 
This is a societal issue / problem that probably will never change, at least not in our lifetime.. At the time it is in such a way crookedly interwoven in our society devided over so many groups of aledged lovers and views about responsibility and where it lays. This ball will keep bouncing around and nobody will ever catch it, it simply is to hot to hold, it seems.

Few years ago there was a perfect example for this which in the end is forgotten again and swept under the carpet and just keeps going on and on. Watch the documentary Pedigree Dogs exposed - Discretion is adviced, this is a very disturbing documentary.

I kept a bit track of the aftermath of this story regarding the reactions of the peoples involved causing this problems.. The highest placed spokesman of the societies creating these standards said simply

"We look into to it, but short term improvements are imossible, this will take many generations."

With other words for now we "poor people" have to learn to live with the dogs problems.

Lovers? Lovers of what actualy? Dogs? Or looks? Traditions? Showing off? Love only for yourself?"

One thing is for sure, the dog itself doesn't give a flying figure about how it looks.
 
Ha! Ha!
I pulled the age five year old out of the air in previous reply, but OP's godson could be five day's or five month's old,and my sentiment remain's unchanged.
Spoil the wee ones rotten, while they are blissfully ignorant to the stark realities of growing older by the day.
I very much agree that nature will always be their friend if introduced to her at an early age.
 
Lindy said:
My daughter would love a rainbow ornament or something similar but that is because young kids are attracted to colourful things.
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There's some pretty nice colorful fish out there for choice, does she not like them?

Would she perhaps be more interested in, dare I say it, a marine tank?

zozo said:
And 2 fancy goldfish she said, but the only one left called Henry.. The other one died rather soon.. Very strange all.. She even is convinced the fish also sleeps, because at the end of the day it lays very quiet with it's belly on the substrate and only moves if you wake it up by knocking the glass.
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Oh dear 😱

Critisism can be constructive - I'm pretty harsh and to the point with people if I feel I know better. Couple of friends who keep tanks (one has an 800litre african setup), the ones who ironically peer pressured me into the hobby (which I am very grateful for now) when asked about water changes and dealing with nitrates/phosphates (rock/sand tanks, not a single plant) I am met with the reply "nitra-what?".

They're cool now they are aware, I think initially they felt a bit annoyed that they were the ones to get me into the hobby, then 6 months later I'm coming round dictating to them about maintenance, water chemistry and so on.
 
Lindy said:
We have a duty of care and if you decide to ignore the correct information when given then you just shouldn't have animals. Unfortunately extends to all animals in our care. Look at dogs.2 thirds of UK dogs are overweight. "But they hardly eat anything" is the usual response. I'd bite my tongue as saying how depressing it is to know that a small amount of calories is still exceeding what the dog needs because it gets so little exercise would be non productive and better to try and change than insult and isolate, just like your friend and goldfish. Common goldfish should not be sold for tanks. End of. Fancy should be sold as a specialist fish.

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Friend of mine has a couple of acres and about 8 dogs - they all get 1 meal per day, and starved on the Sunday. Healthiest most happy dogs you'll ever see in your life. In contrast to the people that go past walking their dog half way round the block - they're out of breath (the owners too sometimes), struggling to walk, and look like they can't wait to get home and be treated.
 
HiNtZ said:
Friend of mine has a couple of acres and about 8 dogs - they all get 1 meal per day, and starved on the Sunday. Healthiest most happy dogs you'll ever see in your life. In contrast to the people that go past walking their dog half way round the block - they're out of breath (the owners too sometimes), struggling to walk, and look like they can't wait to get home and be treated.
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zozo said:
This is a societal issue / problem that probably will never change, at least not in our lifetime.. At the time it is in such a way crookedly interwoven in our society devided over so many groups of aledged lovers and views about responsibility and where it lays. This ball will keep bouncing around and nobody will ever catch it, it simply is to hot to hold, it seems.


Lovers? Lovers of what actualy? Dogs? Or looks? Traditions? Showing off? Love only for yourself?"

One thing is for sure, the dog itself doesn't give a flying figure about how it looks.
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Sounds typical of pageant moms in the states - they will always maintain they are doing it because their child enjoys it, or wants to do it. The stark reality is it was the Mother's unfulfilled dream that they are now forcing their child to live in the hopes they can absorb some of that attention they clearly so desperately lack.
 
HiNtZ said:
Critisism can be constructive - I'm pretty harsh and to the point with people if I feel I know better. Couple of friends who keep tanks (one has an 800litre african setup), the ones who ironically peer pressured me into the hobby (which I am very grateful for now) when asked about water changes and dealing with nitrates/phosphates (rock/sand tanks, not a single plant) I am met with the reply "nitra-what?".

They're cool now they are aware, I think initially they felt a bit annoyed that they were the ones to get me into the hobby, then 6 months later I'm coming round dictating to them about maintenance, water chemistry and so on.
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Than you're a bit like me, but i learned to shut up especialy with people who are close to me when not asked for an opinion.. Usualy if not asked, feedback can become (negative) critisism and if it occurs to often it backfires and kicks you in the .... It did to me to often.. I can't help it i always feel responsibility to say something when i see an animal suffer or about to suffer. And than it's not an opinion and only say what i know is 100% correct and then it's still up to the other party to believe you or not. If they think they know beter, then you have a nice status quo doomed to derail and crash.

A friend of mine had a turtle tank on his desk for the kids.. Everytime i viseted the tank was a thorn in my eye with it's tea colored water.. One day i saw it coffee brown, there was more crap than turtle in this tank.. I couldn't resist and said please for heaven sake stop this animal cruelty and give those poor creatures away to somebody who can take care of them or realese them into nature. This is not a turtle tank this is a poop tank and a bacterial time bomb. Probably my choice of words again did the most damage.. She said, what are you babling about in nature they also poop in their own water!?. He said i was ignoring the fact he was working from 6.00 to 22.00 and i as not helping him with making comments like that. While the tank was for the kids and his son sitting next to that stinky thing playing minecraft and the daughter was chatting with here girlfriend. Of which i didn't say anything or else i would have critizised they way he's raising his children too. I guess that would have been realy to much. It backfired to me with his comment a few weeks later saying, when i know you come over i clean the turtle tank, so i do not have to listen to you nagging about it.. From that day on i scrapped the word turtle from my dictionary at this address and never used that word again and never looked at that room corner again.. Also not told them about the risks of salmonella infection they where risking with neglecting turtles like that. Probably the vet did i guess, he tends to ask others he gives more credit about what i say. He double checks everybody.. One day the turtle tank was gone, i never heard anything about it.... Yes i still was peeking into that corner sometimes, i noticed but didn't say a word.
 
zozo said:
Than you're a bit like me, but i learned to shut up especialy with people who are close to me when not asked for an opinion.. Usualy if not asked, feedback can become (negative) critisism and if it occurs to often it backfires and kicks you in the .... It did to me to often.. I can't help it i always feel responsibility to say something when i see an animal suffer or about to suffer. And than it's not an opinion and only say what i know is 100% correct and then it's still up to the other party to believe you or not. If they think they know beter, then you have a nice status quo doomed to derail and crash.

A friend of mine had a turtle tank on his desk for the kids.. Everytime i viseted the tank was a thorn in my eye with it's tea colored water.. One day i saw it coffee brown, there was more crap than turtle in this tank.. I couldn't resist and said please for heaven sake stop this animal cruelty and give those poor creatures away to somebody who can take care of them or realese them into nature. This is not a turtle tank this is a poop tank and a bacterial time bomb. Probably my choice of words again did the most damage.. She said, what are you babling about in nature they also poop in their own water!?. He said i was ignoring the fact he was working from 6.00 to 22.00 and i as not helping him with making comments like that. While the tank was for the kids and his son sitting next to that stinky thing playing minecraft and the daughter was chatting with here girlfriend. Of which i didn't say anything or else i would have critizised they way he's raising his children too. I guess that would have been realy to much. It backfired to me with his comment a few weeks later saying, when i know you come over i clean the turtle tank, so i do not have to listen to you nagging about it.. From that day on i scrapped the word turtle from my dictionary at this address and never used that word again and never looked at that room corner again.. Also not told them about the risks of salmonella infection they where risking with neglecting turtles like that. Probably the vet did i guess, he tends to ask others he gives more credit about what i say. He double checks everybody.. One day the turtle tank was gone, i never heard anything about it.... Yes i still was peeking into that corner sometimes, i noticed but didn't say a word.
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Too true - I've not had anything like that with the tanks (yet), my friends are pretty solid and they've seen how hard I've researched everything (I'm quite meticulous like that and they know it).... one friend said "bloody hell, we got him into tanks and he knows more than us!". I knew at that point I'd said enough and it was now up to them to be bothered to do their own research.

A couple did heed the advice - after a few fatalities I went and tested the waters and found massive ammonia spikes. I think it hit home after that that they should probably make a bit more of an effort, if anything, for their own benefit.

That poor turtle though. If he works 6-10 he shouldn't have animals really.
 
He's including his household activities in his work hours.. And you do not want to know how many pets they have, chickens, rabbits, guinea pigs, fish, 3 dogs, hamster.. Turtles are gone by now. And he does it all to make a paradise for his children, he realy is a sweet guy doing th best he can, but not realizing that he's going completely over the top driving himself nuts..But ok besides that..

What baffles me the most is why do have so many people the desire to keep animals in captivity but lak the responsibility to properly care for them. Or do it uninformed very fanaticaly wrong with the idea they do good... This strange contradiction must originate somewhere, but nobody realy seems to care... Why do so many people think so less about animals and their needs?

And there are also many people who do realy good and care very much, so you can't say it aint in human nature.. Because the ones who do, give proof it is in our nature. Bit they are obviously not the majority. But why and how did the others lose it somewhere along the road of evolution.

Can't only blame bussines, because if we all cared more we would all spend more... It's something else.. But what, where and how.. Who knows??
 
I went to a kid's birthday party yesterday and I remembered this thread...
IMG_20160910_212559.jpg

I didn't ask, but I'm quite sure some poor creature died in there... I was actually glad that it was empty.
 
zozo said:
He's including his household activities in his work hours.. And you do not want to know how many pets they have, chickens, rabbits, guinea pigs, fish, 3 dogs, hamster.. Turtles are gone by now. And he does it all to make a paradise for his children, he realy is a sweet guy doing th best he can, but not realizing that he's going completely over the top driving himself nuts..But ok besides that..

What baffles me the most is why do have so many people the desire to keep animals in captivity but lak the responsibility to properly care for them. Or do it uninformed very fanaticaly wrong with the idea they do good... This strange contradiction must originate somewhere, but nobody realy seems to care... Why do so many people think so less about animals and their needs?

And there are also many people who do realy good and care very much, so you can't say it aint in human nature.. Because the ones who do, give proof it is in our nature. Bit they are obviously not the majority. But why and how did the others lose it somewhere along the road of evolution.

Can't only blame bussines, because if we all cared more we would all spend more... It's something else.. But what, where and how.. Who knows??
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I agree - in my case I'm self employed and always at home. We had cats, they died few years ago all within a few months of each other which was heartbreaking. They were 23, 24, and 12 though (she had liver failure the youngest).

We then had 2 chickens, one died as she was pretty old and got ill. The other one is still here on her own, but with us literally the entire day - in the house, out the front and back gardens doing what she wants. We go out and turn things over for her to get the bugs and worms etc, she's really a happy chicken and gets a heap of attention (and treats) constantly all day, every day, 365.

Same goes for my fish, I literally check the tanks hourly (it's almost an obsession!) - but, I really really enjoy it.
 
I've sold a lot of these ornaments when I ran a lfs. I hate them but people love them and ask for them. I know it's easy to bash people who keep tanks full of them but in truth a lot of the people who bought them were the most dedicated keepers out there. They often bought live plants as well and live foods for their fish. If they had a disease they asked advice and treated accordingly.
so basically poor decor does not make a bad keeper. Some of the "experts" and I use the term entirely wrongly who came in and tutted at a bubbling toilet or a vw van didn't have half as much dedication to their livestock. So whereas I wouldn't have anything unnatural or ever recommend it, does a plec really care if he's living under a luminous castle, skull or piece of slate?
 
I am with Mort, i wouldn't buy the types of ornaments we are talking about, and although pressured by my two girls (4 & 7) for a frozen ornament, wont give in. Although the purchase of such ornaments does not necessarily correspond with poor fish & plant care.

Considering what site we are on and what the majority of the discussions are about, I am not sure if the fish care about Frozen or Spongebob etc.. anymore than they do about flower pots, lengths of pipe, feeding clips, twinstars, filters, co2 diffusers and drop checkers. I bet all of us on here use or have used some/all of these and never really batted an eyelid. All of these things and many more are so artificial and out of place in a "normal" fish life that whichever you use is largely irrelevant I would have thought, as long as you take proper care of the fish.
 
In marine fish breeding clownfish are normally kept in tiny cubed (1ftx1ft is common) with just a flowerpot. It's about as far as you can get from wild conditions as you can get but they don't seem bothered by it.
When I was breeding clownfish I wasn't keen on this kind of setup so bred them in a larger tank with macro algaes. It was more naturalistic but they still bred on a tile and didn't have an anemone. Still it made me feel better which I think is a lot of it, if we like what we create and are proud of it then we take more care with it.
 
Girlfriend's 7 yr old wanted a fishing pole, and would settle for nothing but a pink rod/reel combo with princess theme adornment's.
Fast forward 2 yrs, and she spied my graphite spinning rod and one of the more expensive reel's of the many cheaper ones I own mounted to it.
After a day of fishing with her and her mother, I gifted the rod/reel combo to her for she and I are pal's/mates.
She is so proud to own it.
That's what it's all about for me at the entrance to my golden year's?
 
roadmaster said:
Girlfriend's 7 yr old wanted a fishing pole, and would settle for nothing but a pink rod/reel combo with princess theme adornment's.
Fast forward 2 yrs, and she spied my graphite spinning rod and one of the more expensive reel's of the many cheaper ones I own mounted to it.
After a day of fishing with her and her mother, I gifted the rod/reel combo to her for she and I are pal's/mates.
She is so proud to own it.
That's what it's all about for me at the entrance to my golden year's?
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That's nice to hear. It's probably a lot lighter and smoother than her old one.

Remember those cheap-o telescopic rods you could get for a tenner? Atrocious!
 
roadmaster said:
Girlfriend's 7 yr old wanted a fishing pole, and would settle for nothing but a pink rod/reel combo with princess theme adornment's.
Fast forward 2 yrs, and she spied my graphite spinning rod and one of the more expensive reel's of the many cheaper ones I own mounted to it.
After a day of fishing with her and her mother, I gifted the rod/reel combo to her for she and I are pal's/mates.
She is so proud to own it.
Click to expand...
I think this is pretty typical transition 🙂
 
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