Ultra-wide angle (UWA) and aquascaping

[George Farmer]

i could do a true masterpiece of a tank, but because i have a crap camera i would get ranked lower than someone who does a lesser scape... aquascaping contests are now a joke which is why i will not enter anymore.

its like the ada competition, unless you use their products, you will not even be considered for the win.

goes without saying... one day i might enter and just put down i used all their potions and see where i end up

a low budget, DIY style tank winning the ADA... per-lease!

Hi Nick

Good to see you on UKAPS again.

Although the use of ADA products in the IAPLC contest is probably beyond the scope of this thread, I think it's worth clarifying matters.

You do not need to use ADA products to 'be considered for the win'.

I'm not sure where you've heard this rather cynical claim, but it isn't true. For instance Filipe Oliveira's Top 10 entry did not use any ADA products.

Conversely, in 2008 I used lots of ADA products and what I consider to be a good photo, and I ranked 898th. My highest ranked 'scape, 169th in 2009, used the least ADA products.

I think the reason many top IAPLC ranks use a lot of ADA gear is because some of the best 'scapers in the world live in the Far East, where ADA is far more accessible, in terms of price and availability when compared to the UK.

Aquascaping in the Far East is also undertaken as a much larger proportion of the fishkeeping hobby as a whole. You only have to read the entrants per country in the IAPLC to see this for yourself. Logic implies that if ADA products are popular in the Far East, then they're going to be present in the top rankers' aquascapes...

With regards to the actual IAPLC judging process, your 'scape won't even see the international judging panel unless it gets short-listed into the Top 100. When judging almost 2,000 entries you can imagine that the short-listing process is largely based on first impressions, so the photograph is important, and I'm sure the kit list isn't considered at all.

I agree that aquascaping contests should always rank a good 'scape over a good photograph, and I'm certain all aquascaping judges feel the same way. From having personal experience of judging an aquascaping contest alongside Amano, I know he concurs...

Cheers,
George

 

[George Farmer]

From having personal experience of judging an aquascaping contest alongside Amano, I know he concurs...

In fact, I remember him mentioning the use of ultra-wide angle photography in this 'scape, that actually won Best of Show in the AGA 2008. I also scored this higher than any other 'scape, but not just because it's a great photo...

 

[plantbrain]

I love the UWL zoom canon 16-35mm EF, the Tonkia 12-24mm is not bad either.
I have not used the Sigma 12-24mm, it does not work on my full sized sensors.

I think it's more important than most any other aquarium lens, same for Real Estate pics, interior homes etc, small places, nature pics etc. It makes the aquarium look much larger than it is.

Still, I have seen others add elements to their tanks that make them appear much larger without a UWL......I think there's something to be said there.

 

[George Farmer]

I have not used the Sigma 12-24mm, it does not work on my full sized sensors.

Should do, Tom. You're probably thinking of the Sigma 10-20mm.

Still, I have seen others add elements to their tanks that make them appear much larger without a UWL......I think there's something to be said there.

Definitely!

 

[Ian Holdich]

see, when i look at this pic, the first thing i see is the hardscape, the last thing i looked at was the actual tank. Now, i probably wouldn't have bothered looking at the actual glass tank in we weren't talking about UWA. The tank looks like a shallow cube doesn't it? it's a pity there's not a pic of this with a normal kit lens to compare with.

 

[tyrophagus]

Mark you can't use raw as a standard for entries as it produces a very flat low contrast, unsaturated, unsharpened image. This might be the pure unadulterated image data but it is not what your eyes are seeing. Your eyes see more contrast and saturation and better dynamic range.

Even with film the camera produces an altered image dependent on film choice and printing. A photograph can never be anything but an attempt to reflect reality rather than a true representation of reality.

 

[JEK]

i could do a true masterpiece of a tank, but because i have a crap camera i would get ranked lower than someone who does a lesser scape...

I know this isn't really relevant to the topic of the thread, but I hope it's okay I answer Nick16...
Look at world ranking 3 in the 2008 IAPLC contest. That's actually a rather unsharp and blurry picture. At least it is in PFK 12/2008 - I don't have the IAPLC booklet so I can't tell if it's better there. Can anyone confirm or invalidate that?

 

[Ian Holdich]

this came third, and this is the largest pic i have found



courtesy of http://my-aquatic-world.blogspot.com/20 ... ayout.html

having a look through some pics, there is some bad photography that got ranked high.

 

[plantbrain]

Since these ARE photo contest and photos are art, another layer on which to promote and support the hobby........like being a good plumber.........also makes you a good aquarist..........a good photo shoot can recoup the $$$, make you look better than you are🙂

But it is art............it is not reality.
Most judges know this and are fairly experienced with photography and post processing trickery........

Photo skills are judged as well in most cases..........but more weight is given to the conceptual landscaping, hardscaping I think in general.

Video gets around a lot this but........it is also another level of art, Youtube contest for the best scape?
Might promote the hobby more than an outdated media like pics. Most high end cameras and even cell phones have HD video these days.

There are many aspects one can master related to aquariums, and the types of critters and systems that can be kept.......reefs for examples, or macro algae, or breed rift cichlids, or or or.........we learn as we go and decide to pursue another side of things.

I still think the UWA is among the best lens to have in my bag when I'm out and about or want to make the tank look really big, like my face planted up close.

You also should consider looking at the tank styles and dimensions if scaping and pics are important to you, most are larger tanks and have a lot of front to back depth. I've used the 60cmx60cm X 60-240cm length for some time, and am switching most of my tanks to shallower and deeper front to back depths, 45cm high by 60 or 75cm front to back depth.
The other nice thing is these tanks have more surface area for O2 and fish loading. The schooling fish are compressed in the field of view also.

 

[Stu Worrall]

old thread I know but Ive just ordered a 16-35mm F2.8 which should be here Monday 😀 so my old canon 10-22mm will be up for sale to pay towards it! After seeing Marks images with the lens it pushed me to get the full frame version for my 5d as the old 10-22 I have only works with my backup camera.

As well as doing this years IAPLC shot Ill also be using it with a rogue grid and flash to shoot first dances at weddings plus the venue and church shots. Looking forward to trying it out 🙂

 

[leonroy]

Ah, you show off! Looking forward to seeing your tank shots with it, it's a fab lens. (Almost as good as the Nikon 14-24mm! j/k!)

 

[Aqua sobriquet]

The Tokina AT-X Pro 12-24 takes some beating if you have deep pockets ...

 

[Aeropars]

I've been looking for a wide angle lens for me beginners Nikon d3100 but the cheap ones I looked at seem to bold on to the standard 55mm lens. What's the deal there?!

 

[Aquadream]

Interesting topic indeed.
I agree with Garuf from one end to the other as I am also an artist and as such I value true art, not computer or camera generated.

There is one more aspect that I have not seen anyone to mention.

When aquarium is empty (no water) the full optical depth is present, but when it is filled with water the optical illusion is that the aquarium depth is less than what is in reality.
The optically reduced visual depth can be compensated with wide angle photography up to a point where the perceptual depth is somewhat equal to the real tank depth, so the picture can actually represent the real aquascape dimensions as accurate as possible.

Beyond that I would consider any aquascape just a nice photography, but not honest contest material.

As for all of the art gibberish I think that all contest aquariums should above all represent high level of care for the life that they are filled with, not to serve some selfish small desire to shine with great pictures and big prizes on the contests.

For his majesty Amano.
Great photographer indeed. And great aquascaper.
His aquariums however in reality look just as ordinary as any other I have seen and his photographs does not represent one bit of reality, but makes all those nice aquascapes to look as extraterrestrial worlds.
I have talked to number of aqua hobbyists that were in turmoil for not been ever capable to achieve those fantastic super clean aquariums (from the pictures), because they do not know that between their eyes and many great aquascapes there is one expensive photo camera and skilled photographer.

 

[plantbrain]

Well, you need to be good at photography and aquascaping both.

I like the Canon 16-35 lens. It's pretty good but perhaps a fix fL lens might do well in that 12-20mm range.

 

[Mark Evans]

As nice as it is to have UwA lens. It's still takes knowledge when to use it. Uwa does not work on every aquarium. I can still take a great full tank shot of a 60cm with a focal length of 135mm

Yes amanos tank look like everyone else's in reality, but his skill lies in plant placement.... Something most of us have not figured out. There lies the difference between him and us. As for expensive gear... Im confident in getting a good shot with a compact.

For the record, I hardly use my 16-35 and still rely on the 135mm f2

 

[Antipofish]

As nice as it is to have UwA lens. It's still takes knowledge when to use it. Uwa does not work on every aquarium. I can still take a great full tank shot of a 60cm with a focal length of 135mm

Yes amanos tank look like everyone else's in reality, but his skill lies in plant placement.... Something most of us have not figured out. There lies the difference between him and us. As for expensive gear... Im confident in getting a good shot with a compact.

For the record, I hardly use my 16-35 and still rely on the 135mm f2

Mark, do you think its fair to say that you cannot achieve that wrap around look that a UWA gives at a focal length of 135mm ? My tank is only 80cm wide and one thing I would love to achieve is to make it look more panoramic. Currently I feel my FTS images are very two dimensional and flat. I can get 135mm using my zoom. Would this give the same image as a 135mm fixed focal length but with distance adjusted to maintain the full image width ? I have read a little bit about photographers preferring the fixed focal length lens to finding a given focal length using a zoom as it does not give the same image. But am I missing the point, or are they ? Surely if you want to match the image you just alter your distance ? Or does that then mean although you get the width you dont get the feeling of BEING there in the image as its evident it was taken from further away ? (I think I am beginning to think this through for myself but would welcome your comment to tell me I am correct or talking rollock )

 

[Aquadream]

Yes amanos tank look like everyone else's in reality, but his skill lies in plant placement.... Something most of us have not figured out. There lies the difference between him and us.

The difference between him and us is first cultural considering the Japanese traditions in flowers and plants placement.
The other difference is that the guy have made hundreds of aquariums in his life time and had the choice to show his best. Skill or no skill I can promice you not all of his attempts were best of the best.
Surely many other scapers would have just as great show after 30 years or so.

 

[Mark Evans]

is aquariums however in reality look just as ordinary as any other I have seen and his photographs does not represent one bit of reality, but makes all those nice aquascapes to look as extraterrestrial worlds.
I have talked to number of aqua hobbyists that were in turmoil for not been ever capable to achieve those fantastic super clean aquariums (from the pictures), because they do not know that between their eyes and many great aquascapes there is one expensive photo camera and skilled photographer.

This is interesting. You do realise that Amano uses film and a large format camera?...not that expensive.you can pick up a Mamiya Medium format camera for next to nothing.

So in actual fact what you see in his images is exactly what is there in front of you. He doesn't even get to change white balance like we can with digital.

 

[plantbrain]

is aquariums however in reality look just as ordinary as any other I have seen and his photographs does not represent one bit of reality, but makes all those nice aquascapes to look as extraterrestrial worlds.
I have talked to number of aqua hobbyists that were in turmoil for not been ever capable to achieve those fantastic super clean aquariums (from the pictures), because they do not know that between their eyes and many great aquascapes there is one expensive photo camera and skilled photographer.

This is interesting. You do realise that Amano uses film and a large format camera?...not that expensive.you can pick up a Mamiya Medium format camera for next to nothing.

So in actual fact what you see in his images is exactly what is there in front of you. He doesn't even get to change white balance like we can with digital.

Film is far more true on many levels than digital images which require post processing, I just had this conservation with 2 professional photographers here. Amano, Clive Butcher, Ansel Adam's etc, they are large format old school photographers. You need to do little/no white balance adjustment. This is a very different approach with the limited post processing you can do with film. I still like Film, but no longer use it.

Amano is very good, has been doing this most of his life and he's not young anymore.
As far as scaping etc, Amano has been very forthcoming about how and what to do, but most people obsess with nutrients or dosing or some other "trick" and gloss over the good advice on scaping, trimming etc. ADA aqua journal shows this over and over, they get weird with the dosing/ferts, plant physiology............but the how to scape parts are the bulk and his main message.

Not whacko stuff like Penac or toumaline.
Some of his lens choices are UWA, some not.
4x5 and 8x10's also have some really nice lens and the color richness, shadowing is awesome.
This is why many of the black & white photographers love them.

Check out Clive Butcher, awesome Everglades pictures with insane sizing.
Good place to stop by if you tour southern Florida ever. Having lived there for a couple of years, I sure did.

http://www.clydebutcher.com/

His photos are unlike any I've seen other than say Ansel's, you feel like you are there in the swamp, or on the mountain. When art does that........that is it's "purpose". Amano does this as well with planted tanks.