Martin in Holland
Member
- Joined
- 28 May 2013
- Messages
- 2,310
I'm in Korea at the moment and I feel that this song fits right in that KTV bar I visited last night....
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Twinstar..what is it?
- Thread starter foxfish
- Start date
viktorlantos
Aquascaper
Not reported a while ago, but probably a good idea after months of use. How i feel about that, where we used, am i still happy or not, did Twinstar won in every case or not....
If you hate readings i have to say this is a happy ending story. Sorry to others 🙂
So where do i start.... As i wrote in the past we started to use this device months ago. I was in a lucky position to have this run in multiple tanks at the same time with different scenarios and tank sizes.
Some of the tanks were reported here some came after that and i not published them one by one. I have to tell we do sell this device in our country before someone feels that i am pushing because of this.
I jumped early to this train after i had a nice chat with Dave Chow in Japan. He is a skilled pro scaper and he mentioned at that time why he likes this, and how this become his maintenance tool.
And he was right. If we would have the same chat by now i would say we experienced the same result in the past months like he did after months of use. Makes the life easier.
Why i mentioned that we do sell this? Because i was interested about what my clients say, how the device works in so many scenarios. And now i got feedback from more than 60 scapers which is a good data.
But before i jump to that here is what we experienced just in the past weeks/months:
180L tank 1:
Originally we had success on a 180L tank. Where the device cleaned all kinds of algae from plants, dragon stones and killed the BGA too.
What happened since we removed Twinstar a few months ago? Plants stayed algae free. Stone never get algae since then which is a big surprise as i thought will be green after a month or so. But 2.5 months later this is still free of any algae no need to brush. BGA came back, but this was for 2 reason. The tank is an old one. The HC floating carpet is a magnet for BGA. And around Cristmas we were closed for a week when no fertilizers were added and we knew we will have algae issues like BGA.
Still the tank performs well and i feels like it was sterilized at the time we used the device here.
TWINSTAR TEST 1 done - 90x45x45 - Passed by viktorlantos, on Flickr
60L tank:
We had a 60L tank with Aquasky 602 light (super powerful light). There we had a lot of hair algae on the carpet parvula mini after planting, and hair also on the top of the stems. We used Rotala Sp Vitenam and this act like Rotala Wallichii when you trim it.
Here the carpet cleaned and the stems also. The tank is running without any algae since that time. We removed the Twinstar and used that on other tanks. I dropped back once for 2 weeks when there was not any other tank to use 🙂 as i still worried that the 602 light will bring hair back. But not. The latest shots created this week. 2 months after we stopped using Twinstar continously here.
2013 Moments by viktorlantos, on Flickr
Green Aqua Showroom by viktorlantos, on Flickr
Aquatic Plants by viktorlantos, on Flickr
180L tank 2:
Then we used the device in a fresh 180L tank. The tank got a very early BGA on the sand, but we kept using Twinstar here and the BGA has gone in 2 or 3 weeks.
The Seiryu stoned not cleaned up so it looks like the device not working well for these stones in this tank size (smaller ones maybe more effective)
But we never had hair algae, diatom, cladophora or any other what usually appear with a fresh tank or a moss heavy tank. We're not cleaning the mosses and the tank become 2.5 months old now.
Start day
TWINSTAR TEST 2 - 90x45x45 - Day 1 by viktorlantos, on Flickr
Jan 18th capture
Green Aqua Showroom by viktorlantos, on Flickr
Close up on mosses
Aquatic Plants by viktorlantos, on Flickr
Aquatic Plants by viktorlantos, on Flickr
We're using less algae eater here like 1/3 of the common shrimps etc. We never removed Twinstar from this tank til this week. So 2.5 month test passed, but the stones need to be cleaned! 🙂
30L nanos
These tanks were really matured. Like a year old now. Got issues because of the summer, winter, nano CO2 fluctation issues etc etc.
We used the device on the right one first where we had algae on the lava stones. Had hair algae and a large ammount of BGA in the HC carpet which starts to lift up these days.
We put in the Twinstar Mini on friday and by monday the tank was super clean! Lava is like new, no hair, and the BGA has gone. Crystal clear water after 3 days of use. Wow!
And we did not had any shrimps, siamese algae eater etc. This was more than a month ago and the tank still running without any algae. Like it was sterilized.
The middle tower had more serious issues. The blyxa started to melt after months of awesomeness. And removing this by hand seemed impossible. I thought i remove all the Blyxa Japonica or just trim it down brutally to the ground.
Also Limnophila Hippuroides we used in the back easily took over the algae from Blyxa so it does not look good. Added in Twinstar. We did not have shrimps here only a small siamese at that time.
It was around 10 days when the algae fully cleaned up. But this happened without loosing any plants or had to trim down any leaf! The hair eliminated from the dying Blyxa and the tank recovered again. Now this looks awesome clear and just like with the other if it was sterilized fully. No sign of issues etc. Love! 🙂
The only thing what i see here is the Hydrocotyle Tripartita. This plant become almost white. No pale no iron issues as we dose iron usually. So this plant is become super bright after Twinstar and after a few weeks we removed the device the plant still looks that bright.
Tower Nanos by viktorlantos, on Flickr
Another 60L fresh start
This tank started with issues as the timer forgot the CO2 programs and it came in the worst time when we were closed for days.
Still when we identified the issue we do followed the instructions using siamese, shrimps in lower number. We had diatom (this is an Aquasoil Amazonia tank), but not that much.
Had hair because of Blyxa and the new parvula carpet, but the tank cleaned up by week 2. I wish this could be a normal start without CO2 issues, but this is a shop where things happen every day... 🙂
Overall i am happy with the result. The Seiryu not getting any algae here. This is why i refers to George's tank where his stones also were clear. Small tanks looks like ok, but larger ones still need a toothbrush 🙂
The light is a lot here as we have the 602 LED next to this 601 and this tank get some additional light from the 602. Still a very easy maintenance tank.
This is 2 months old here and had the Twinstar there continuously in this time frame.
Green Aqua Showroom by viktorlantos, on Flickr
240L fresh start
This is a new tank in our showroom. 240L dual filtration, external CO2 reactor, 4x54W or 6x54W ATI we not decided which one to use so a few days 4 others with 6 tubes 🙂
We added in the Twinstar Nano (mode 2) after a week approx.
To early to say anything as we have it there a few days ago only, but the initial brown, diatom started to disappear from mosses after day 1. I not mentioned this on the upper 180L Seiryu moss tank, but mosses love this device and grows quicker.
I see the same thing here too since we installed. We will keep the device in for a few weeks to see how this performs, but the water is almost clearer, mosses looks better, initial alga is disappearing.
We do have more cleaning crew here, but we use a hell amount of mosses so we will need them. However no siamese this time.
Green Aqua Showroom by viktorlantos, on Flickr
This is what we tried and tested. In every tank we had success with them.
Not sure if i mentioned before but when our shop was closed at the end of the year and none of the tanks were fertilized, we came back to a mess in the new year 🙂
Almost all tanks had serious issues because the missing ferts. Mainly BGA (NO3 issues), but green dot on glasses (PO4 issues) were in the tanks, but the ones where we had the devices were clear from any problem.
Of course these would have also issues a week later because the missing ferts, but in this time frame the tanks were under control and the algae had less fun for sure.
Now what i hear from my customers. Since there are many different scenarios:
Super powerful light on larger tank having issues with Seiryu stones. Had to clean them frequently, but no other algae is there. So usual hair, BGA, brush, diatom is not appearing.
Tanks with less experienced people giving different feedbacks. Many positive ones, but also says that they do not see difference other than clear water etc. Many of these people playing with fertilizers, using unbalanced systems like more light less filtration, too heavy flow, unbalanced CO2 etc. The device will not solve all the problems of course. This is why i still believe the Twinstar is a friend of experienced people who need a backup, or companies who do maintenances. For beginners the device will not solve the unbalanced issues. On the other hand even the most experienced people could have algae problems sometimes and this happens for many reason like we had the day offs, temperature change, Timer problem etc.
Cleaning the diffuser plate. Some of my client alerted me that not all cleaning solution is good to clean it. For example JBL Powerclean is not usable for metals.
We used Superge to clean the diffusers, and we noticed that even with a stronger solution Twinstar plate need more time to soak. We usually keep our CO2 diffusers on these cleaning solution for 10-15 minutes (using more concentrated form than the factory recommendation), but Twinstar need a night to have that nice fog again what it was before. We clean the diffusers in every 2 weeks.
Huh.... Sorry for being long here. 🙂
Please take my note here not an advertisement or a call-to-action post 🙂
The only reason why i posting this to extend the feedback on this topic on different scenarios and shows the problems or success we faced in the last 3-4 months. I am posting as an aquascaper here not a business guy.
Cheers,
Viktor
If you hate readings i have to say this is a happy ending story. Sorry to others 🙂
So where do i start.... As i wrote in the past we started to use this device months ago. I was in a lucky position to have this run in multiple tanks at the same time with different scenarios and tank sizes.
Some of the tanks were reported here some came after that and i not published them one by one. I have to tell we do sell this device in our country before someone feels that i am pushing because of this.
I jumped early to this train after i had a nice chat with Dave Chow in Japan. He is a skilled pro scaper and he mentioned at that time why he likes this, and how this become his maintenance tool.
And he was right. If we would have the same chat by now i would say we experienced the same result in the past months like he did after months of use. Makes the life easier.
Why i mentioned that we do sell this? Because i was interested about what my clients say, how the device works in so many scenarios. And now i got feedback from more than 60 scapers which is a good data.
But before i jump to that here is what we experienced just in the past weeks/months:
180L tank 1:
Originally we had success on a 180L tank. Where the device cleaned all kinds of algae from plants, dragon stones and killed the BGA too.
What happened since we removed Twinstar a few months ago? Plants stayed algae free. Stone never get algae since then which is a big surprise as i thought will be green after a month or so. But 2.5 months later this is still free of any algae no need to brush. BGA came back, but this was for 2 reason. The tank is an old one. The HC floating carpet is a magnet for BGA. And around Cristmas we were closed for a week when no fertilizers were added and we knew we will have algae issues like BGA.
Still the tank performs well and i feels like it was sterilized at the time we used the device here.
TWINSTAR TEST 1 done - 90x45x45 - Passed by viktorlantos, on Flickr
60L tank:
We had a 60L tank with Aquasky 602 light (super powerful light). There we had a lot of hair algae on the carpet parvula mini after planting, and hair also on the top of the stems. We used Rotala Sp Vitenam and this act like Rotala Wallichii when you trim it.
Here the carpet cleaned and the stems also. The tank is running without any algae since that time. We removed the Twinstar and used that on other tanks. I dropped back once for 2 weeks when there was not any other tank to use 🙂 as i still worried that the 602 light will bring hair back. But not. The latest shots created this week. 2 months after we stopped using Twinstar continously here.
2013 Moments by viktorlantos, on Flickr
Green Aqua Showroom by viktorlantos, on Flickr
Aquatic Plants by viktorlantos, on Flickr
180L tank 2:
Then we used the device in a fresh 180L tank. The tank got a very early BGA on the sand, but we kept using Twinstar here and the BGA has gone in 2 or 3 weeks.
The Seiryu stoned not cleaned up so it looks like the device not working well for these stones in this tank size (smaller ones maybe more effective)
But we never had hair algae, diatom, cladophora or any other what usually appear with a fresh tank or a moss heavy tank. We're not cleaning the mosses and the tank become 2.5 months old now.
Start day
TWINSTAR TEST 2 - 90x45x45 - Day 1 by viktorlantos, on Flickr
Jan 18th capture
Green Aqua Showroom by viktorlantos, on Flickr
Close up on mosses
Aquatic Plants by viktorlantos, on Flickr
Aquatic Plants by viktorlantos, on Flickr
We're using less algae eater here like 1/3 of the common shrimps etc. We never removed Twinstar from this tank til this week. So 2.5 month test passed, but the stones need to be cleaned! 🙂
30L nanos
These tanks were really matured. Like a year old now. Got issues because of the summer, winter, nano CO2 fluctation issues etc etc.
We used the device on the right one first where we had algae on the lava stones. Had hair algae and a large ammount of BGA in the HC carpet which starts to lift up these days.
We put in the Twinstar Mini on friday and by monday the tank was super clean! Lava is like new, no hair, and the BGA has gone. Crystal clear water after 3 days of use. Wow!
And we did not had any shrimps, siamese algae eater etc. This was more than a month ago and the tank still running without any algae. Like it was sterilized.
The middle tower had more serious issues. The blyxa started to melt after months of awesomeness. And removing this by hand seemed impossible. I thought i remove all the Blyxa Japonica or just trim it down brutally to the ground.
Also Limnophila Hippuroides we used in the back easily took over the algae from Blyxa so it does not look good. Added in Twinstar. We did not have shrimps here only a small siamese at that time.
It was around 10 days when the algae fully cleaned up. But this happened without loosing any plants or had to trim down any leaf! The hair eliminated from the dying Blyxa and the tank recovered again. Now this looks awesome clear and just like with the other if it was sterilized fully. No sign of issues etc. Love! 🙂
The only thing what i see here is the Hydrocotyle Tripartita. This plant become almost white. No pale no iron issues as we dose iron usually. So this plant is become super bright after Twinstar and after a few weeks we removed the device the plant still looks that bright.
Tower Nanos by viktorlantos, on Flickr
Another 60L fresh start
This tank started with issues as the timer forgot the CO2 programs and it came in the worst time when we were closed for days.
Still when we identified the issue we do followed the instructions using siamese, shrimps in lower number. We had diatom (this is an Aquasoil Amazonia tank), but not that much.
Had hair because of Blyxa and the new parvula carpet, but the tank cleaned up by week 2. I wish this could be a normal start without CO2 issues, but this is a shop where things happen every day... 🙂
Overall i am happy with the result. The Seiryu not getting any algae here. This is why i refers to George's tank where his stones also were clear. Small tanks looks like ok, but larger ones still need a toothbrush 🙂
The light is a lot here as we have the 602 LED next to this 601 and this tank get some additional light from the 602. Still a very easy maintenance tank.
This is 2 months old here and had the Twinstar there continuously in this time frame.
Green Aqua Showroom by viktorlantos, on Flickr
240L fresh start
This is a new tank in our showroom. 240L dual filtration, external CO2 reactor, 4x54W or 6x54W ATI we not decided which one to use so a few days 4 others with 6 tubes 🙂
We added in the Twinstar Nano (mode 2) after a week approx.
To early to say anything as we have it there a few days ago only, but the initial brown, diatom started to disappear from mosses after day 1. I not mentioned this on the upper 180L Seiryu moss tank, but mosses love this device and grows quicker.
I see the same thing here too since we installed. We will keep the device in for a few weeks to see how this performs, but the water is almost clearer, mosses looks better, initial alga is disappearing.
We do have more cleaning crew here, but we use a hell amount of mosses so we will need them. However no siamese this time.
Green Aqua Showroom by viktorlantos, on Flickr
This is what we tried and tested. In every tank we had success with them.
Not sure if i mentioned before but when our shop was closed at the end of the year and none of the tanks were fertilized, we came back to a mess in the new year 🙂
Almost all tanks had serious issues because the missing ferts. Mainly BGA (NO3 issues), but green dot on glasses (PO4 issues) were in the tanks, but the ones where we had the devices were clear from any problem.
Of course these would have also issues a week later because the missing ferts, but in this time frame the tanks were under control and the algae had less fun for sure.
Now what i hear from my customers. Since there are many different scenarios:
Super powerful light on larger tank having issues with Seiryu stones. Had to clean them frequently, but no other algae is there. So usual hair, BGA, brush, diatom is not appearing.
Tanks with less experienced people giving different feedbacks. Many positive ones, but also says that they do not see difference other than clear water etc. Many of these people playing with fertilizers, using unbalanced systems like more light less filtration, too heavy flow, unbalanced CO2 etc. The device will not solve all the problems of course. This is why i still believe the Twinstar is a friend of experienced people who need a backup, or companies who do maintenances. For beginners the device will not solve the unbalanced issues. On the other hand even the most experienced people could have algae problems sometimes and this happens for many reason like we had the day offs, temperature change, Timer problem etc.
Cleaning the diffuser plate. Some of my client alerted me that not all cleaning solution is good to clean it. For example JBL Powerclean is not usable for metals.
We used Superge to clean the diffusers, and we noticed that even with a stronger solution Twinstar plate need more time to soak. We usually keep our CO2 diffusers on these cleaning solution for 10-15 minutes (using more concentrated form than the factory recommendation), but Twinstar need a night to have that nice fog again what it was before. We clean the diffusers in every 2 weeks.
Huh.... Sorry for being long here. 🙂
Please take my note here not an advertisement or a call-to-action post 🙂
The only reason why i posting this to extend the feedback on this topic on different scenarios and shows the problems or success we faced in the last 3-4 months. I am posting as an aquascaper here not a business guy.
Cheers,
Viktor
James O
Member
Very interesting Viktor! Especially that tanks stay clean after using TS. Could it be that the plant growth & tank optimisation/bedding in have reached a stage where algae can't compete? Do you think that the TS is not powerful enough in larger tanks as you say the stones are still covered in big tank?
I guess any tank that needs TS could be called imbalanced, but we must keep in mind that until the tank is settled and plants grown in its just a glass box trying its best to replicate nature (albeit with CO2, short lighting period, low oxygenation, flow etc as required/used), which puts a lot of stress on the system initially allowing nature/algae to visit. Once settled it should be fine?
Is anyone using TS in a low tech tank, or is that REALLY cheating 😉
zanguli-ya-zamba
Seedling
steveno
Member
Great post viktor, and can I say a great new addition to you already amazing set of tanks... My TS has provided similar result as viktor has documented, in my 120l.
Actually I am considering moving my TS over to my 30l low tech PRL shrimp tank, as starting to have a few algae issues but am a little concerned if it will effect my shrimp.
James O
Member
Would be VERY interested in hearing how the TS goes in your low tech Steven
viktorlantos
Aquascaper
Would be a great idea to test on one first.
We never had issues in a planted tank, but 30L is small and maybe the Twinstar dosage is a lot to them.
Also please watch out for the pH level. These shrimps are sensitive and small tanks has more fluctuation on water parameters. With the increased oxygen levels the pH may will increase more in a small tank like this.
Martin in Holland
Member
- Joined
- 28 May 2013
- Messages
- 2,310
What would happen if you put a TS for a big tank (up to 250l ) in a small tank (45l )....would it be bad for plants or animals?
viktorlantos
Aquascaper
For stones which increase the water hardness probably not.
All other effect is the same like in a small. So clean sand (not mentioned this but we never had to clean the sand since we use it), BGA, hair, thread, etc will die the same way, and the water clarity.
Some reported that the glass pipes stays cleaner for longer time and easier to clean as the algae not stuck on the glass surface that much.
Plant growth is one thing, but that is not that significant to make this difference. With using Twinstar i think the winning combo is that you kill the smallest pieces of algae so not only the visible ones, but all will die off and at the same time your filtration power will be 100 percent efficient with the increased oxygen. As your bio filter runs better the algae has less space to grow.
In a high light planted tank we say many times oxygen is not needed as your filter is enough, but that does not mean adding oxygen will not improve the system in overall. I bet most of us using the filtration with lowered efficiency because we're not using enough oxygen. This is easy to test if you add in an aeration overnight and the water will be clearer, then you can be sure the filtration is not running with 100% efficiency.
viktorlantos
Aquascaper
yup probably. you can overdose it i believe.
Rob P
Member
- Joined
- 13 Oct 2013
- Messages
- 785
Ah that's a shame lol, i was 'thinking' (dangerous! 😀) about putting it into Mini M low tech short term if problems arose, especially after Viktors comments after taking out lol 🙂
Viktor some earlier questions that went unanswered, have you run this in tank with rear spray bar configuration at all? I have mine front left and get excellent TS bubble distribution in the left hand side of tank, the bubbles do get across full width to some degree but not an even distrubution. I noticed front left rocks (get smothered in bubbles) cleaned up much quicker than rock on opposite end to diffuser, although they cleaned 2/3 weeks later. I was thinking possibly better to place TS diffuser in rear centre under spray bar but suction cup placement seems suitable for corner mounting only? Here's pic (OMG how embarrassing posting pic in presence of Viktors masterpieces!! Is my "test tank" lol
)
Also Viktor, after removal do you have to make much adjustment to bubble rate etc as I found on installation of device fish perked up considerably and water clarity much improved. I would imagine keeping gas as high with TS removed could prove an issue?
Thanks!
Rob 🙂
Viktor some earlier questions that went unanswered, have you run this in tank with rear spray bar configuration at all? I have mine front left and get excellent TS bubble distribution in the left hand side of tank, the bubbles do get across full width to some degree but not an even distrubution. I noticed front left rocks (get smothered in bubbles) cleaned up much quicker than rock on opposite end to diffuser, although they cleaned 2/3 weeks later. I was thinking possibly better to place TS diffuser in rear centre under spray bar but suction cup placement seems suitable for corner mounting only? Here's pic (OMG how embarrassing posting pic in presence of Viktors masterpieces!! Is my "test tank" lol
)Also Viktor, after removal do you have to make much adjustment to bubble rate etc as I found on installation of device fish perked up considerably and water clarity much improved. I would imagine keeping gas as high with TS removed could prove an issue?
Thanks!
Rob 🙂
Trevor Pleco
Member
and the club's name dare I ask, surely it does not have to ryme ?
Might well be joining this elitest club with a tripple subscription..
TS suggested three for 760L, thought I could get away with two...
steveno
Member
Right, further to my previous post i have moved my twinstar nano into my 30l shrimp tank, i set to to mode 1 (was set to mode 2 in my 120l tank). Was starting to get some hair algae on the moss closes the top of the tank. Been installed since sunday morning and i have not notice any issue from shrimp (including the shrimplets), if anything they seem more active, likely due to the O2 boost. It seems to be providing the same benefits as i had in my larger tank, water is super clear, and the hair algae seem to have started to disintegrate. 🙂
For the time being everything is fine, but will keep a close eye on it, plan on removing next sunday.
For the time being everything is fine, but will keep a close eye on it, plan on removing next sunday.
zanguli-ya-zamba
Seedling
Hi members,
great news, I wanted to buy the device, but finally to the decision to buy it next month or later. Two days ago my wife have seen the twinstar web site on my computer, she went through the web site. As next friday it's my birthday, she decided to offer me one
!!!! So she did it today, and she also offer me three plants, Echinodorus telenus, Riccardia and ammania bonsai (I already have it).
Yes I know she is extraordinary !!!!
So saturday I will receive my TS for my birthday, and I will start reporting after this.
happy happy
cheers
great news, I wanted to buy the device, but finally to the decision to buy it next month or later. Two days ago my wife have seen the twinstar web site on my computer, she went through the web site. As next friday it's my birthday, she decided to offer me one
!!!! So she did it today, and she also offer me three plants, Echinodorus telenus, Riccardia and ammania bonsai (I already have it).Yes I know she is extraordinary !!!!
So saturday I will receive my TS for my birthday, and I will start reporting after this.
happy happy
cheers
zanguli-ya-zamba
Seedling
Hi guys
Just to let you know I received my twin star this morning yeah
Just to let you know I received my twin star this morning yeah
Rob P
Member
- Joined
- 13 Oct 2013
- Messages
- 785
Zanguli, why don't you let us know why you are using Twinstar? Is it to help current algae problem, is it to reduce maintenance etc? Be interesting to know what your goals are and how/if the device helps 🙂
zanguli-ya-zamba
Seedling
Hi Rob,
I decide to use twinstat to prevent algae (I hope) and to give an help for the growth. It a newly set up tank (two weeks). I will report how benefit it will be for the tank 😉.
Regards
zanguli-ya-zamba
Seedling
Hi guys
I just wanted to report something. As I live in Congo we have a lot of power problems. I wanted to let you know that if the power goes off you need to restart and select again the mode you are using.
So it doesn't comeback on itself
Cheers
I just wanted to report something. As I live in Congo we have a lot of power problems. I wanted to let you know that if the power goes off you need to restart and select again the mode you are using.
So it doesn't comeback on itself
Cheers
