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Trying to get my head around non-CO2 methods

Whitebeam

Member
Joined
15 Aug 2010
Messages
67
Location
Dorset/Wiltshire Borders
I'm starting up my daughter's new tank with the fish-less cycle just now. As she's supposed to look after this one on her own I want it to be as simple as possible. My problem is that I'm now too plugged into Clive's Matrix 😳

Do I have this non CO2/low maintenance method right?

  • I need low light (the Korall 60 only has about 1W per USG, I'll fit a reflector to this) as the means to limit nutrient needs.
  • I need a high density of plants (I haven't made up my mind as yet - I'm looking at Hygrophila corymbosa 'Siamensis' and/or Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Tropica' and/or Anubias barteri var. nana and/or Lindernia rotundifolia and/or Microsorum as likely plants that may just survive in there).
  • I don't dose any nutrients, relying on fish waste to feed the plants (the Matrix is pulling at me here - surely I need some traces every now and then?)
  • No CO2, not even Excel/EasyCarbo etc.
  • I need a relatively high density of fish (to provide the waste)
  • I only change water twice (ish) a year (arrrgh - the Matrix!)

What have I missed?

I suspect that I'll be secretly testing the hell out of this tank for the first few months.

Peter
 
Tom said:
What's the substrate?
All I had available is Tesco Light Weight cat litter. Having read more I guess I should have at least put in a layer of Osmocote and moss-peat in first. I am going to change the filter anyway, so I may well pull out the litter that is in there and put those in first.

Peter
 
Hey Peter, I don't see why you need to go bonkers here. Who says you need high fish load? Who said you don't need nutrients? Who says to trade the latter for the former?

The only hard fast rule for a non-enriched tanks is that you keep the lighting low. End of story.

The nutrient requirements are low. So what? Add low quantities of nutrients. I mean, doesn't that sound rational? As long as the lighting is kept reasonable you may not need to dose more than a couple times per month if at all, but having high fish loads is asking for trouble, no matter what type of tank you have.

In Barr's non-CO2 method it is assumed that the organic waste production, which will be at much lower quantities than in a CO2 enriched tank, will be the main source of plant nutrients. Now, of course, this includes fish waste and decaying food/plant matter. This doesn't mean that you need to go crazy and dump a thousand fish in the tank.

Adding some inorganic nutrients though improves performance because it's accessible immediately. The dosing scheme goes something like:
Add roughly 1/8 teaspoon of KNO3 and 1/32 teaspoon of KH2PO4 per 20G respectively once a week or two. If you're using commercial ferts, you can just dose per bottle instructions (assuming it's an NPK mix).
While trace mixes can be added, SeaChem Equlibrium is suggested as an alternative, since it has Fe and Mn as well as Ca/K/Mg/SO4. But you can add these if you already have them.
Standard dosage for Equilibrium is 1/4 teaspoon per 20 gal tank once every week or two.

So that's it. No need to go bonkers. Water changes are optional in this method. This helps to control BBA and other CO2 related algae. Just top up when needed. Again, if you keep stocking rates reasonable then the plants absorb the toxic products and recycle the waste. This method cannot possibly work in a non-planted tank, obviously, since the waste simply builds up and is only controlled to a limited extent by filtration. It also cannot work in a CO2 enriched tanks because the rate of waste production is 3X-10X higher.

You need to think about what's happening conceptually. Low light lowers CO2 and nutrient demand. Low CO2 reduces the metabolism so that waste production is dramatically lowered. Since it takes some time to break down the organic waste and to convert into nutrient products that the plants can then absorb, supplementation with small quantities of inorganic fertilizers enhance growth performance enough to keep the plants from stalling and to keep them healthy. Healthy plants then detoxify the environment obviating the need to replace large quantities of water. Avoiding large water changes prevents short term fluctuations in the CO2. It is these fluctuations that are implicated in CO2 related algae.

Again, you don't need to freak out about water changes. You can do them if you feel the need but if you do, try to perform them after the photoperiod, or at least let the water degas fro a day or so in order to maintain the same CO2 concentration in the new water as that in the tank. This reduces the difference in CO2 levels. Having plants in the tank is totally different than having an unplanted tank. Plants clean and oxygenate every environment they are in. That's why grass grows greener over a septic tank and why the weeds growing out of a cow pie are healthier than the ones growing away from it. That's their job. Without plants the world would be a very messy place, so one need not be aghast at the concept of eliminating water changes because the plants are changing the water for you. :geek:


Cheers,
 
Hi all,
# I don't dose any nutrients, relying on fish waste to feed the plants (the Matrix is pulling at me here - surely I need some traces every now and then?)
......
# I need a relatively high density of fish (to provide the waste)
# I only change water twice (ish) a year (arrrgh - the Matrix!).....
I'd agree with Clive, if you want to change some water do, always keep a low fish load and if you think the plants are yellowing, or that growth has stopped, feed them.

The plants still have the same requirements they did high tech., light and nutrients (including CO2), just a lot less of them. Personally I do regular filter maintenance and small volume water changes, but very little other tank maintenance or "gardening". I also feed a lot of live food. It may not be the only way, but it works for me.

Established, planted low tech. tanks are extremely stable and resilient. This doesn't mean things can't go "wrong", it just means that change is slower, allowing you more time to find which parameter has slipped outside of its permitted levels. The other factor that is relevant to stability is water volume, small planted tanks require more careful management than larger tanks.

cheers Darrel
 
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