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TMC Sig 600 Twinstar 600s Sump build
- Thread starter Something Fishy
- Start date
look after your plants - dying plants are not going to contribute to a healthy environment
Put the CO2 back
If you’re concerned about current fertilizers, go pick up some Tropica Specialized & Premium (I recommend both when water is very soft - check your comprehensive water report - if it’s anything like mine, tap water is essentially rain water)
If you have low plant mass, or mostly slow growing plants, add more Premium and less Specialized (N & P, plus additional K I believe)
Depending on plant species, you may need to increase KH and/or GH in very soft tap water
I rarely do either, just choose plants that grow well in very soft water - if you can access an old Tropica catalogue, they included hardness & temperature ranges for their plants
In my shrimp tanks, I add some Seachem Equilibrium for Ca, Mg etc (list available on Seachem website)
Honestly I stopped reading your other topic
It’s just too (I’m editing the word I was about to use so as not to offend) ... perhaps more constructive description ...
“many things are possible, few are probable”
In essence you are off chasing unicorns
Sorry perhaps that is still too blunt
Stressed, ill fish - may react adversely to water change (despite there being absolutely nothing wrong with the water, in or out of tank, despite the water being as exact a match as possible etc)
This likely happens as they lack sufficient biochemical reserves (there is no excess biochemically stored energy - usual state for every cell is to have some excess energy store) so when they are just barely maintaining a semblance of normal appearance/behaviour anything that alters their environment, leaves them stumbling about (loss of balance, inability to maintain position in water, gasping etc etc)
Rather than trying to deal with the myriad possible aspects of a planted aquarium,
- just transfer all fish to a sterile bin (any food safe plastic will do if you can’t find an economic glass box- which really just makes observations easier for us),
- maintain temperature,
- dim lighting,
- air driven sponge filter will provide aeration/gentle flow without current (lower energy output for struggling fish),
it won’t be cycled so daily water changes plus a product such as Seachem Stabilty (at recommended dosage) or Prime (at 5-10X dose to manage ammonia, nitrites, this “lasts” ~24h under general conditions, so dose daily regardless of water change)
You could transfer media from existing filter, but only move ceramic type media (no sponge or floss as that may have pathogen contamination)
It is important to choose a bin/aquarium that meets the space (high fish density is a stressor, especially mixed species) and swim/movement requirements of the various species (Rummy Nose need more swim length than Neons) - again this is about minimizing fish stress (which is a much more real thing than the maybe aspect of too soft water somehow killing your fish, or the maybe leaching of toxins from whatever)
You also want a low fish density to minimize possible pathogen transfer between individual fish
Without any idea which medication to use, none is best
If you see signs of Ich, then use a suitable remedy
If tiny air bubbles are “sticking” to fish (re comment above), then you might add a product such as Seachem Stress Guard (as this may indicate poor/limited slime coat production ... again not an unusual symptom in sick fish)
https://www.seachem.com/stressguard.php
It’s important to read all the FAQ (eg don’t use with any copper based meds)
Seachem is always my recommended brand as they provide more transparency than any other company
GreenNeedle
Member
Not your average Ph. It is the average from your water company drinker water quality report for your area. Linked to in a post on the other thread
I agree totally as I was saying above..
Something Fishy
Member
Why dump coral sand? Surely it’s only helping with KH balancing. I can’t stop water changes altogether though or the fertilisers and nitrates would become excessive. I understand drastic changes will upset the balance each time. I followed Jurijs and George Famers advice of 90% changes and to be honest for months it worked and I lost no fish. It’s only fairly recently I’ve had issues which is what’s confused me.
I am adding co2 chlorine?
Sorry?
What’s all over the place? Temp trouble was long solved as I bought a second heater. It’s CO2, the fish are clean and healthy and no signs of any fin rot or visible deformities.
You say my water is pants - but surely it’s just soft, and by adding some KHCO3 I can rectify that. Then it’s perfectly usable surely?
Mesh I will look at swapping, but it’s there to stop shrimp going into the sump. No other fish species have been affected by anything in the tank, or even shrimp.
No idea what you mean about the CO2 being wonky. It’s always been dead straight as I’ve used a clip that won’t allow me to bend it. But, if the bubbles go in the tank and are mixed and the indicator says it’s green, why does it matter if it’s wonky?
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Something Fishy
Member
Good advice also appreciate it thank you. Perhaps it did go a bit far but I still appreciate people chipping in. And it did bring to light an issue with KH also. Surely buffering my water won’t hurt anyway, it will only help to make it more stable?
As I’ve said lots now ultimately this tank was fine for a good while when I set it up, I had 14 Rummy Nose in there for weeks and they were active and feeding well. More recently they’ve been reclusive and more shy, and enjoying hiding. My current is fairly strong too so if they are upset in any way that will only make them worse.
I’ll take the fish out and monitor them.
I’m half tempted to just rescale the lot as I feel there are quite a few things I’d like to change and monitor better now.
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slow down a little..
I'm trying to help you..
you had algea issues which leads me to think low co2..
it's not your tap water is it..
all fish and invertebrates are different.. so have different effects..
as for coral sand.. it does not balance it raises.. if you dont know your kh.. why do you want to change it..
Still do your normal water change once a week..
still ad ferterlizer..
up your co2..
and lastly your tap water is pants because its so soft and therefore your water chemistry is all over the place..
you had algea issues which leads me to think low co2..
it's not your tap water is it..
all fish and invertebrates are different.. so have different effects..
as for coral sand.. it does not balance it raises.. if you dont know your kh.. why do you want to change it..
Still do your normal water change once a week..
still ad ferterlizer..
up your co2..
and lastly your tap water is pants because its so soft and therefore your water chemistry is all over the place..
Something Fishy
Member
I’m not saying I didn’t say that back then. But I am saying that a few weeks back, I have corrected that by adding another heater to the mix. Heat is stable, co2 is stable (or was, it’s been off to rule out me gassing the fish), flow is intense, and coral substrate was changed very recently long after I was losing fish.
I don’t mind doing anything to help, but I’m not keen on doing something drastic like removing all that for no solid reason if it’s not harming anything. My tank would be half bare and I’d need to replace with something inert I presume. It seems to me the coral sand would help KH if anything?
Likewise with the CO2. As per my most recent post on the current problems I have tried to list anything wrong with the current tank setup, of which the CO2 was more stable and drop checker green.
I misunderstood your wonky comment to mean that the actual CO2 diffuser wasn’t straight.
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Something Fishy
Member
Appreciate you are trying to help yeah. I’m just saying with all the comments I’ve had I can’t afford to act on everything without a good reason to, and you seem to be listing things that don’t fully make sense to me so I am trying to ask why before I just do things.
Please also remember some of my older posts were in Feb about other issues. Much of those posts won’t help too much as I have been trying to fix those aspects since, and the beard algae actually just disappeared after a few days. I used 4ml glut once a week and by week two it was gone. It doesn’t help that the java fern was not healthy when it went in.
But doing the water change was likely the problem especially if you’re saying my tap water is pants? If I buffer it then it’s fine to use.
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Something Fishy
Member
Thanks man I do want to. I’ve certainly been trying to do all I can for it which is why it’s frustrating.
I’ll change the wire for something better and consider an inert replacement for the coral sand.
Other than that I’ll do as alto said and get the dying fish out to monitor them, and meanwhile start buffering my water change water and testing for KH.
I’ll keep updated in here.
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Something Fishy
Member
Moved fish to another plainer tank to monitor there.
Seem more stressed in that one that the other from the move ha.
I missed a neon so left him in the main tank for now. He’s the most active I’ve seen any of them in ages and coloured up well.
I did noticed a white mark however on his face/chin, could that be the neon tetra disease or similar? Bad pics I know but so hard to catch him when swimming.
Cheers
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Seem more stressed in that one that the other from the move ha.
I missed a neon so left him in the main tank for now. He’s the most active I’ve seen any of them in ages and coloured up well.
I did noticed a white mark however on his face/chin, could that be the neon tetra disease or similar? Bad pics I know but so hard to catch him when swimming.
Cheers
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Last edited:
Something Fishy
Member
Hard to see really but not sure what it is :/
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Something Fishy
Member
Tank update as pretty delayed here haha.
Replanted the whole tank and trying an Eheim Pro on here now - great flow and beading so fingers crossed!
All the fish were put in a separate tank when I last posted and still 90% are alive in there and seem to do well. I want to ensure my water is kept soft for neons and shrimp when I move them back in
With the extra Amazonia I read to add Potassium Bicarb to cycle it all out - is that a good idea?
I have soft water apparently as tests above and local comms said soft - but ph is over 7.7 from the tap? Should I buff it at all do you think or add it in alkaline? Kinda Confused that I want acidic water which is soft but my tap water is alkaline in Ph but soft? TDS was super soft too.
Just want to cycle the tank as best I can and prevent annoying the fish with alkaline water changes if they’re in a acidic water.
Hope that makes sense.
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Replanted the whole tank and trying an Eheim Pro on here now - great flow and beading so fingers crossed!
All the fish were put in a separate tank when I last posted and still 90% are alive in there and seem to do well. I want to ensure my water is kept soft for neons and shrimp when I move them back in
With the extra Amazonia I read to add Potassium Bicarb to cycle it all out - is that a good idea?
I have soft water apparently as tests above and local comms said soft - but ph is over 7.7 from the tap? Should I buff it at all do you think or add it in alkaline? Kinda Confused that I want acidic water which is soft but my tap water is alkaline in Ph but soft? TDS was super soft too.
Just want to cycle the tank as best I can and prevent annoying the fish with alkaline water changes if they’re in a acidic water.
Hope that makes sense.
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Something Fishy
Member
This is it currently but it needs to grow in of course
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Hi all,
All the water companies add phosphates (PO4---) and inject sodium hydroxide (NaOH) to raise the pH of tap water. This raises the pH and the combination of insoluble metal phosphates and alkaline pH stops any lead (Pb), zinc (Zn) or copper (Cu) going into solution from old copper pipes, brass fittings, soldered joints etc. At the moment the EU are very strict on heavy metal limits, and they have gone from the WHO 50 ppb limit to 10 ppb and eventually 5 ppb, although I suspect the 5 ppb won't happen in the UK post-brexit.
Because NaOH is a <"strong base"> (it entirely disassociates into Na+ and OH- ions), you don't need to add very much to raise the pH of the water. But it doesn't add any buffering (buffers are weak bases and acids).
In soft water I'm always more interested in conductivity (which you've measured as ppm TDS) than pH. You know that there isn't much NaOH in the water, because the Na+ and OH- ions will raise conductivity, your conductivity is still low, so there wasn't much NaOH added.
cheers Darrel
You still have soft water.
All the water companies add phosphates (PO4---) and inject sodium hydroxide (NaOH) to raise the pH of tap water. This raises the pH and the combination of insoluble metal phosphates and alkaline pH stops any lead (Pb), zinc (Zn) or copper (Cu) going into solution from old copper pipes, brass fittings, soldered joints etc. At the moment the EU are very strict on heavy metal limits, and they have gone from the WHO 50 ppb limit to 10 ppb and eventually 5 ppb, although I suspect the 5 ppb won't happen in the UK post-brexit.
Because NaOH is a <"strong base"> (it entirely disassociates into Na+ and OH- ions), you don't need to add very much to raise the pH of the water. But it doesn't add any buffering (buffers are weak bases and acids).
I wouldn't worry too much, the pH will settle back to a baseline level fairly quickly after water changes. Vegetated soft water <"naturally differs in pH during the day">, due to the changes in ratio of dissolved oxygen and CO2.
In soft water I'm always more interested in conductivity (which you've measured as ppm TDS) than pH. You know that there isn't much NaOH in the water, because the Na+ and OH- ions will raise conductivity, your conductivity is still low, so there wasn't much NaOH added.
cheers Darrel
