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The Great Mechanical Filtration Experiment

I am not in the sump league just yet! (I am looking to get a 75G aquarium this year, so it may be an option at that point).


What do you mean? i.e. what do you have at the moment?
1 Chamber, 5 different sponges and filter floss, 2 and 3 chambers 20 kg of seachem matrix (waste of money) and 20 kg of biohome (anohter waste of money).
So I was thinking to remove all that seachem and biohome and just pust sponges.
 
1 Chamber, 5 different sponges and filter floss, 2 and 3 chambers 20 kg of seachem matrix (waste of money) and 20 kg of biohome (anohter waste of money).
So I was thinking to remove all that seachem and biohome and just pust sponges.
Well, there are different opinions on media. If it were me, I would agree that Matrix and Biohome were not the best in terms of giving you a lot of lovely surface area.
 
I think in planted tanks, media does not play a big role, because plants also act as filter. So not mucf difference in media
That is part of what I am trying to find out - in a way.
 
At some point I was thinking to get rid of all biomedia and replace it with sponges. Reasons:
I would also say that I would love for you to try the replacement of matrix etc for foam. And then see how long you go without cleaning it........

Screenshot 2024-02-10 at 23.16.54.png
 
That is what I am trying to find out. i.e. if you have tonnes of biofiltration, and biofiltration does all the stuff that mechanical does (and more), then why do you need mechanical?
You can have bio filtration that doesn't catch suspended particles and you can ha mechanical filtration that doesn't have much surface area for microbes (or gets tossed like filter floss), but foam is both. As long as you have foam, you are in no way discarding mechanical filtration. There's not a problem with that of course - it works great! But it's still mechanically filtering the water.
 
You can have bio filtration that doesn't catch suspended particles and you can ha mechanical filtration that doesn't have much surface area for microbes (or gets tossed like filter floss), but foam is both. As long as you have foam, you are in no way discarding mechanical filtration. There's not a problem with that of course - it works great! But it's still mechanically filtering the water.
That's a great call out. @ElleDee

So (in my case as a working example), I have a foam-based pre-filter (45PPI), and the main unit is a mix of K1/HEL-X style media and (mostly) foam. I completely agree that foam acts as both biological or mechanical (cleaning frequency dependant) so the question remains - what is the point of the pre-filter?
 
Right, some of us (including irresponsible parents such as I) need to go to bed. 🙂

But I did manage to find (and I did not think it was findable!) some Oase 10 PPI Oase pre-filter foam! (Which looks much like some of the foam in an FX6 - perhaps @Le duke can confirm).

So I am getting set up - and cheers to everyone who has contributed thus far. Yes, it is a bit of a folly. But I also know all of us want to prove @John q wrong anyway. (Just kidding JQ!)

Screenshot 2024-02-10 at 23.50.20.png
 
You can have bio filtration that doesn't catch suspended particles and you can ha mechanical filtration that doesn't have much surface area for microbes (or gets tossed like filter floss), but foam is both. As long as you have foam, you are in no way discarding mechanical filtration. There's not a problem with that of course - it works great! But it's still mechanically filtering the water.
What is foam?
 
I think both these comments are partly where my experiment will end up.

When I set up my tank, I went down to the local marsh (which is absolutely teeming with life) and filled a small silicone lunch bag halfway up with pond mud.

Took it home, put it in my tank, as it was cycling. A week or two later I noticed tiny little micro fauna. Leeches, worms, ostracods. Literally the things that eat dead plant and animal matter.

I don’t see them as much any more but occasionally I’ll see one up against the glass, 2” down in the substrate, safe from 25 marauding C. panda, aeneus and paleatus. I trust that they are in my canister filter as well.

This may not be for everyone. Some people want a sterile tank, and that’s great.


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Hi all,
So, if you get down to a 10PPI pre-filter sponge, why not go to zero? Bear in mind that there is only so much (in terms of size) that your filter intake will accept - so if your biofiltration is working at peak, are we saying it won't break it down?
Because I want to keep bulky organic matter out of the filter body, all I want in the filter body is ammonia and dissolved oxygen, and dissolved oxygen is the metric that counts.
So, what happens if the prefilter is not there and it gets into the main biofiltration?
You run the risk that the filter will clog and levels of dissolved oxygen in the filter will be <"insufficient to maintain nitrification">.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi all,
My 6-month check of my uncleaned bio-filtration (HEL-X13 and 20/30PPI foam in the main unit looked like the media was brand new.
And that is actually a good thing. You have <"complete oxidation"> in the filter, all that means is that your filter could handle a <"much larger bioload"> or, probably more to the point for us, it could deal with a sudden increase in ammonia levels from <"emergency chloramine dosing"> or an unnoticed dead fish.

cheers Darrel
 
And that is actually a good thing. You have <"complete oxidation"> in the filter, all that means is that your filter could handle a <"much larger bioload"> or, probably more to the point for us, it could deal with a sudden increase in ammonia levels from <"emergency chloramine dosing"> or an unnoticed dead fish.
Thanks, Darrel, and I agree.

I am wondering (regarding the inner trays remaining 'clean') whether that available capacity would simply just take on the extra load processing (oxidation)if the pre-filter was removed - or, conversely, would it actually just start to clog the main trays as I am "pushing the problem further down the unit". The downside would be having to clean the main unit as it gets clogged; the upside (if the biofiltration is enough to oxidise all that is thrown at it) is that you may not have to open the canister at all for 6 months to a year. Hopefully, some of what I am trying to articulate makes sense!!
 
Hi all,
Hopefully, some of what I am trying to articulate makes sense!!
Certainly does make some sense.
I am wondering (regarding the inner trays remaining 'clean') whether that available capacity would simply just take on the extra load processing (oxidation)if the pre-filter was removed - or, conversely, would it actually just start to clog the main trays as I am "pushing the problem further down the unit".
<"Potential clogging"> is always the issue. When I began to talk to <"Plec. keepers"> etc. it became apparent that they sometimes had issues with <"unexpected fish death">, although they were really good fish-keepers (I'm not) and had large capacity filters.

I knew I hadn't had the same issues, and I was pretty sure that lack of oxygen was the key, but I wasn't initially quite sure why. Once I'd seen their set-ups, a lot of the pieces started to fall into place, they had warm water (which <"can hold less oxygen">), they didn't <"have any plants">, they were using their filters as syphons and they had some addition of tap water to their tanks.

Normally this was fine, but if an additional ammonia source was added? Dissolved oxygen levels were compromised. <"Dissolved oxygen"> is different from every other parameter, any period of low dissolved oxygen, however short, kills your fish, with everything else you get some warning. The one who used a trickle filter (as well as a canister), the <"late Bob Marklew">, hadn't suffered from the same issues.
the upside (if the biofiltration is enough to oxidise all that is thrown at it) is that you may not have to open the canister at all for 6 months to a year.
If people are <"really conscientious"> they can successfully have <"filter floss"> and fine sponge in their filters, I'm just not that person.

cheers Darrel
 
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