Swapping tanks

[Rich Jackson]

Im currently looking into swapping my tank contents into a new one. What is the best way of doing this? Current tank has been running for 2 years and I plan on trying to remove and reused most of the contents. Would the soil be reusable or would I create an ammonia spike if I disturb it? I had ceramic media in my sump which I will transfer over to the new filter. Any other help would be gratefully received .

 

[MikeofCorkonia]

Hi Rich,

Definitely not an expert here, but I swapped one of my 30l tanks in a bit of an emergency earlier in the year.
I did a change from a sand / dirt combo and went to a pure sand with root capsules for the plants I swapped the plants fish, filter, ceramic rings and most of the water as well to boot.

In my mind I went for pure sand and root tabs to minimise the chance of an ammonia spike, and lo and behold, all was good from a water chemistry point of view. However, every single one of my stems/swords and crypts died within a month.

If I was doing it again, I would do a proper substrate and cap it off with the sand and be prepared to monitor and water change regularly if needed.

I’m also really interested in any other advice as I will have to move 3 or 4 of my tanks soon and want to use the opportunity to rescape.

 

[richardcunliffe]

Personally, I'd keep a bunch of the soil. Add some fresh substrate, stick the old soil on top and then top it off with a bit of fresh soil too. I did that recently and everything survived with no melt at all. Loads of crypts, no problems. Also no issues with ammonia spikes.
And as you say keeping some of your old filter/sump contents will help too. In my case, I was upscaling from a small HOB, so I just seeded the new canister with a nice dirty sponge and biomedia from that. Solid as a rock.
I was cautious in adding livestock gradually, though I expect that wasn't even strictly needed.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I'd keep a bunch of the soil ..... And as you say keeping some of your old filter/sump contents will help too. In my case, I was upscaling from a small HOB, so I just seeded the new canister with a nice dirty sponge and biomedia from that.

That is definitely what was suggested in this thread - <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee">.

This what Dr Newton said:

..... If you do need to add nitrifiers the best source is from an aquaponics or aquaculture system that is already running and removing ammonia. Some water or sediment/soil or part of the biobilter (if there is one) is an excellent starter. Without this source as an inoculum then you could add some roots from plants from any other tank that is running - these are likely to have nitrifiers associated with them. A small clipping put into the tank would be enough. In some lab tests we found that adding previous material from a running biofilter could reduce ammonia oxidation start-up time from 2-3 weeks to 2-3 days.

and this what he said about commercial products.

We also tested a commercial product of nitrifiers & it did decrease the time to ammonia oxidation start-up. It was slower than our biofilter material transfer, but much quicker than doing nothing. However, the microbes present in the system from the commercial product disappeared over a few weeks and were replaced by those more common to our system. So, it seems some products could help “jump-start” the process, but it will be a lot less predictable and ultimately may not determine what microbe succeed in the long run.....

This may also be useful for those who feel the need to add "nitrifying bacteria "<"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">.

..... That said, DrTim’s One and Only has had AOA’s since the beginning. I hedged the product by only making two types - freshwater and marine and adding AOB, AOA and Nitrospira to each. The exact details I will not disclose for obvious reasons but I am very good at growing these bacteria - I have been doing it for 25 years!. I have attached a recent paper by Urakawa and Sipos* that details the assemblage make up on One and Only for your review it is mostly correct......

*Urakawa, H. & Sipos, A. (2020)<"Application of the consortia of nitrifying archaea and bacteria for fish transportation may be beneficial for fish trading and aquaculture"> Aquaculture Research 51:8

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

In my mind I went for pure sand and root tabs to minimise the chance of an ammonia spike, and lo and behold, all was good from a water chemistry point of view. However, every single one of my stems/swords and crypts died within a month.

There is definitely more to that than just the sand substrate.

I'm not personally a great fan of <"controlled release fertiliser root tabs">, or of <"most test kits"> for water quality.

I'd really like to know what the water parameters are in my tanks, but <"I have a practical understanding"> that this is <"often less straightforward"> than the vendors of test kits would suggest.

cheers Darrel

 

[MikeofCorkonia]

Thanks Darrel,

I appreciate the experience and knowledge. If only I had found the forum before!

I too have a bit of experience in chemical analysis, however it was a long time ago and most of my lab results were very questionable! Never used a spectrometer of any kind that looked as new or as clean as the one in the link.

In my example above it was a real emergency job to save a breeding population of fish in a tank that developed a crack (child related). The floating plants and the epiphytes survived the move, but never thrived, but all the rooted ones just melted away. However, your point in the link that many of them should have fed from the water column was not something I was aware of. Glad I have so many articles & posts to get through to improve my knowledge.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

If only I had found the forum before! .....Glad I have so many articles & posts to get through to improve my knowledge.

I always <"work on the theory"> that every, tank related, thing I could ever need is on UKAPS, it is just a <"case of finding it">.

I too have a bit of experience in chemical analysis, however it was a long time ago

First thing to say is that if you <"understand the scientific method">, are used to using serial dilution etc, you have a much better chance of getting accurate and reproducible results. Personally I'm a <"pretty shoddy scientist">, as well as being a <"pretty shoddy aquarist"> and fishkeeper. I need all the <"help I can get">. I think one of our great advantages is having proper scientists as members, which means that @hax47, @X3NiTH or @Andy Pierce can give us the scientific underpinning to important concepts that we might <"not fully understand">.

and most of my lab results were very questionable!

That really is the issue, it is when people are prepared to believe (and make decisions) upon test kit results <"that don't make any sense">. That is why I've pushed <"plant and wait"> for cycling and the <"Duckweed Index"> for tank management. They are simple and robust techniques that aren't reliant on a magic number, but <"just what your eyes can tell you">.

the floating plants and the epiphytes survived the move, but never thrived, but all the rooted ones just melted away

That is interesting, I'll have to think about it. With "never thrived" did they <"show obvious chlorosis">?

cheers Darrel

 

[Rich Jackson]

Thanks for the replies . I am transferring most of the plants over from current running tank and was hoping some of the ADA soil ( been in tank for 2 years ) to help build up scape . My concern is the fish .. would they be ok if I transfer over straight the way ? As they would be in old tank with no plants or cover as such , plus I’m guessing very murky water !!

 

[MikeofCorkonia]

That is interesting, I'll have to think about it. With "never thrived" did they <"show obvious chlorosis">?

Having read that extremely helpful thread, they definitely did! The circle of white rings in the frogbit was something I definitely noticed, as well as a bit of yellowing.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Having read that extremely helpful thread, they definitely did!

I'm pleased you found it useful. I'm ridiculously proud of the "Duckweed Index".

The circle of white rings in the frogbit was something I definitely noticed, as well as a bit of yellowing.

That may relate to the sand substrate, just purely <"because the processes"> that might make iron (Fe) plant available hadn't had time to develop.

Do you know if you have hard alkaline tap water? I know most of S. Ireland does (from the carboniferous limestone aquifer), but Cork is a big county.

cheers Darrel

 

[MikeofCorkonia]

I’m West Cork and my tap water is really soft according to Irish Water (76mg CaC03 per litre). I generally find it tests the same aiming out of the tap (kh/dh are really low) and the ph is acidic (6.5 ish), although I find that pH rises to about 7 when left out for a couple of days (literally leaving a bucket of water to ‘age’).

It also tastes terrible!