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Stupid is as stupid does

Re: Stupid is as stupid does

The 1260 pumps are good pumps, I have had them running for 8 years none stop with no problems!
However I think they require 18mm return pipe to get the max flow, you might need to think about your reactor choice?
If you decide on the UP units I would fit them just in front of the pumps inlet so you dont lose flow through having to reduce the return pipe size.
(Personally I would of bought one 1260 & one needle wheel version 1260)
The bog wood sounds interesting....
Any pics of the sump?
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

One of the Eheims is the needle wheel ( second hand from the lad who sold me the tank in the first place) and the second is brand new from zooplus as they're doing a special at the moment plus 10% off.Not to sure about the UP atomisers as have read they are for 200 - 300 litre tanks and even two is only 600 litres but I might have that wrong.Will be able to get the oak doors at trade price which is handy to keep prices down.
Here's a pic or two of the sump, it's missing two walls(have one cut today from a broken tank) and that was one of the reasons I was going sump less but advised by your good selves here on this site and on my local site to use the sump so will do
004-9.jpg
005-8.jpg
Put a fire extinguisher (2kg) to give a sense of scale and hopefully distract from the mess
Again here is one of my regrettably stupid questions; with the overfow it's near the top of the tank and if there is a power cut it's fine as the water will only drop to that level from that pipe BUT with the spraybar(s) being so much lower (near the substrate) will that cause the water to siphon back to the sump, causing the sump to overflow.Should I drill a hole just under the water level to break the siphon when the water level drops to that level causing air to be sucked in. Hopefully you understand my question and concern but if you don't understand please tell me and I try to do a diagram (freehand, as I am really computer illiterate) as concerned on this point.Sorry for constantly asking questions
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

OK then you wont need any reactors or anatomises if you have a needle wheel pump, you just need a bubble counter & a bit of Co2 line.
I would hope a single 1260 NW fed direct from the sump to a full length spray bar would be fine, actually I dont think you need a second sump pump just a some more internal water movement via 3-4 circulating pumps.
You sump looks like a basis tank conversion so if you have a spare 4' tank I would use that instead.
I would use the new pump you have bought to recirculate the sump water.
I can post a diagram of what I think would work tomorrow, you can then give it some thought as there are lots of options.....
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

Thanks again , have a friend with two pumps in his sump with the second split to recirculate the water in the sump but don't understand the reasoning behind this unless it's to filter the water twice(?).Would be nice to see a diagram as it makes it easier to understand.Thought the two pumps would be needed to increase water flow in the main tank but have a tunze powerhead that's rated at 12,000 litres per hour and a FX5 if needed and somesmaller powerheads rated at 900 litres per hour. Regarding the siphon problem ( or at least in my head) does anyone have a solution? When this tank was marine the return was just below the surface whereas I think I would need it as deep as possible which would cause problems if there was a power cut.Would a hole drilled in the return pipes just below the water line cause the siphon to break once the water level drops below the hole?Maybe better to use a external to mix the CO2 and just use the sump for filtration?
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

You just drill a 2mm hole at water level, this will squirt water across the suface to make a lovely ripple effect & break the siphon. ( you can see this effect on virtually every spectacular tank featured on the forum)
You dont want to pour to much water over the overflow as this will very effectively rids your tank of precious C02!
You want to get as effective as possible biological filtration in the sump, you will get this by re circulating the sump water over the bioballs.
Internal circulating pumps work much better that powerheads as they are designed to move lots of water without directing a jet like a powerhead.
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

Thanks for the peace of mind about the siphon problem, certainly taking advantage of your mind and experience, thanks again. Would the Tunze 6125 stream be suitable for the tank and would it be better on the back wall firing forward (with the spray bars) or the side wall to mix everything better?
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

Well here is a very basic diagram..
As I dont know your DIY skill level, I dont know to what extent you want to take your sump fitting out?
However this basic design works very well, the idea is to have a large amount of biological filter material contained in a mesh bag.
The mesh bag can be easily removed & rinsed in a bucket durring a water change (using tank water) once a month.
This makes the filters bio media extremely easy to maintain. When the bag is out of the sump you can syphon the bottom completely clean as well!
walk.jpg
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

Thanks for the effort of drawing the plans, certainly helps. Very similar to what I was planning but I was going to use the two pumps to return the water from the sump (someone suggested I use two pumps x 3000 litres to build up flow) but would it be better to recirculate the water in the sump with one pump? I was going to use two four foot spray bars (one from each pump) to return the water to the tank (mirror image one from the left and one from the right meeting at the centre)
Sump design is a good idea especially for maintaince the only difference with mine was first layers of sponge as a pre filter then the media and finally fine filter wool before the pump(s).
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

Here are my rough diagrams and even rougher pics.On the diagram I didn't put in the spray bar and return on the left (lazy I know)
001-18.jpg
And the sump
002-14.jpg
Not to scale 🙄
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

You must do whatever you think is best I can only offer you a few ideas 🙂

Yes of course sponge before the bio media, but you wont need any fine floss.

If you think of your main tank as a glass of fizzy drink you can imagine what you are up against in regard to keeping the C02 in suspension rather than disappearing down the overflow!
I cant guarantee that a single needle wheel pump will supply enough C02 distribution but, i think it will :?
It will also depend on your plant layout, if you have a full tank of plants then you may have serious issues with satisfying all of them with a consistent supply of gas?
If it was my tank i would really think hard about the layout & planting design - lots of beautiful scape's have free area around the plants, imagine an island (or two) of plants.
I like this type of scape for lots of reasons.... you can clean the glass all around the tank, the fish can swim behind the plants, you can get a much better flow of C02 all around the tank.
Certainly, two NW pumps connected to two independent Co2 sources would be the business, if that is with in your budget then that would be a full on solution!!
You cant control the flow into the sump via a return valve, only by the flow going into the tank!
You also need to consider a top up valve from your main water supply, the sump will keep the main tank level consistent but the sump its self will drop its water level quite quickly!
Lots of planning & thought required
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

Really appreciate the time and effort you have taken and you have helped me no end.I have seen your tank after the leak and think your idea of no plants around the sides is a good one especially as my lights are only 5' tubes.Rang to confirm about the needle wheel pump and the impeller is broken so think I have two options - either a reactor such as this one
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CO2-Bypass-Aussen ... 2ea52da555
or the atomiser
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/up-co2- ... -5432.html
or 2 of the atomisers.Seem to be going in circles and haven't even started yet,goodness knows what I be like when I do ,grey hairs everywhere.Wait they are already here!!! The tap is on the output from the tank and was used to regulate the flow into the sump when it was a reef tank but how fine or crude the amount changed I don't know.There is also a tap on the pipework back to the tank but again don't know how the extent this changed the flow.Don't know where I find the Eheim needle wheel pump now.Will ring around tomorrow but the choice here in Eire wouldn't come close to the UK.Again thanks for the time and effort you have taken
Dave
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

And circles again 😀 Trying to find info about the needle wheel pump and came across this
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... st11153052
The material to 'create' the bristles is Enkamat,used to keep land from eroding and I have a fish keeping friend who is a landscape gardener who has the same material so might chance my hand and 'mod' one of the Eheim's (the second hand one).Funny thing is that this friend said I be mad adding nitrates etc to my tank so ironic that he will be helping me to do this 😀
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

I am not sure how successful those type of mods would be for your purpose, I think you might lose a lot of flow?
The link show the modified pump powering a recirculating protein skimmer with zero head!
The easy way to mod the pumps impeller is to simply melt tiny holes with a red hot pin.
I have fed C02 into unmodified pumps with quite good result is small tanks but the mist is quite visible.
Still, if you keep searching the net you can find some great articles about modding pumps...unfortunately I think setting up an 8' tank will always cost quite a lot of money - have you decided on the C02 cylinder or cylinders?
Edit....
I have done a bit of my own revision & it would appear to me that the size of needle wheel pumps we have been discussing might not have the power (head) to feed enough water & gas mix from your sump to your tank!
However I think I will make a post on our resident "Plant Brains" thread were he has just set up a NW & sump system to see what he thinks.... viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14873&p=165644#p165644
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

Looked into the specs of the Eheim pump and the head is over 10 feet so hopefully will be enough. Funny thing is with this mod the pump uses less watts and pumps more litres per hour.Think it must be that the air/ water mix weighs less than water alone.Carbon dioxide duties will be carried out with two x 10 kgs cylinders, the ones used for fizzy drinks in restaurants. A local restaurant closed and I got the two for free which was handy 😀 I have two regulators, one TMC (no problems) and the other is 'Hydro' which the bubble count gets lower over time and has to be constantly adjusted. You are so right about cost in a 8' tank.Every step seems to cost more and more yet I haven't put a drop of water in the tank yet 😀 .finished work early today and went looking to see if I could find bulk head fittings locally and went to a plumbers supply depot and of course couldn't but....and it's a nice but, was told why don't I call in to the next unit which was a plastic fabricating workshop so in I went.Was talking to supervisor there and explained to him what I needed and he said it would be no problem to get want I wanted.He then told me that the owner of the workshop is the brother of one of the owners of Seahorse Aquariums in Dublin (one of the the biggest fish retail units in Eire) and when Seahorse designed and built the aquariums in the Maher children hospital they supplied and fitted all the pipes, fittings needed for them including some they had to build from scratch. Thought I ask about the acrylic tube for the spray bar and he said no problem and they would be able to bend it to whatever shape I wanted plus drill the outlets for me.Asked me why I didn't use polycarbonate instead as acrylic can be brittle over that length but I don't know which would be better.Ask also about a reactor for the CO2 and he said if I can draw it they can make it.Told me bring in a sketch of it and see if they can make it cheaper than what's available commercially so will try. He said call back another day and talk to the owner about fish and I should get a hefty discount 😀 At least some good news
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

bigmatt said:
That is very, very good news!
M
Click to expand...
Thanks Matt thinking I should now call into Waterford Glass and ask for lily pipes, :lol: though would the lead in crystal be dangerous 🙁 Hopefully there will be good news about the fittings.Just got offered 2 Acadia 4' light units at cost so might try these for lights
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

Tank is going really slow what with work commitments and other more pressing jobs in the house but trying to get back on track and nearly ready for bringing the tank into the house. Am thinking about the volume of water (around 1,100 litres not including sump) and the best way to introduce CO2 and thinking maybe this might be my best option but wondering if you clever lot can think of different options
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CO2-Anlage-Ma ... 20acf55e8d
kind regards
Dave
 
Re: Stupid is as stupid does

Just a little update regarding the tank and apologies for my lead feet as I really moved at a snail's pace here 😳 .I brought the tank inside in the middle of November as I was getting worried it might crack in a frost but needed a little help as the tank weighs a few hundred kilos. I had the tank on a flat bed trolley (home made) which thankfully made the whole job easier, pushing rather than lifting. First I had to move three tanks out of the way, the biggest being a five foot tank housing some SA cichlids then tear out some of my wife's kitchen, dumped her dish washer as the kitchen isn't that big 🙄 . The mess was something of biblical proportions plus I 'lost' the screws of the kitchen door but it did teach the young fellow a very valuable lesson - don't try to slam the door or it will pin you to the fridge (it's alright, the door was fine after). I will post some pictures of the move later but could never repeat the words out of my good wife's mouth when she came home with one of her friends plus a gaggle of small kids as the cofas were up-ended plus the mess mentioned earlier but I survived that :crazy: The tank and stand are now taller than myself but more of that later........
 
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