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Some Where in the Rio Negro

J

jonnyuk

Member
Joined
6 Oct 2010
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28
hi all, about 4 months ago decided to venture into biotope and decided on a rio n egro black water scape in a 15g (i broke down my previous planted tank), 2 pieces of wood,l ots of sticks, branches, botanicals, oak leave litter, substrate is mixture of fine sand, lilly plant substrate rinsed and rinsed some more, along with a little clay. there are some region specific plant life as well. Filter is a fluval 307 turned down low, i also inject small amounts of CO2 for the plants.

Live stock consists of 6 gold tetra's, 6 Beckford pencil and a reverse trio of checkerboard (Dicrossus filamentosus, i actually think i have ended up with ones from a different river system which was not the intention). i started off with just 1m/f but the female checkerboard is very aggressive and chasing the male away to the back of the tank, i don't see any of the tell tale signs from the female that she is ready to breed, so i have added another male in the hope it reduces. time will tell.

My water params are not there yet, ph is to high (7), along with KH and GH ( i live in a hard water area and although the fish came from the same water i do want to lower everything), i have ordered some peat moss and i plan on running an experiment.
1 bucket with a 50/50 mix of RO and tap water
1 bucket with tap water and small filter full of peat

I have also just stumbled across the JBL Tormec, any thoughts on this. Pictures are taken a water change so its lost the slight tannin it did have. I'm also suffering from brown diatoms, not sure what is the trigger yet as i have 0 nitrates, current thinking is maybe silica from some part of my substrate or maybe its just the tank bedding in.
 

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jonnyuk said:
so i have added another male in the hope it reduces
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Careful with this combination, I had three males in a 5 foot tank and even that wasn’t enough space. The weakest male was attacked relentlessly by the dominant male. I no longer see it so I assume he killed it.

Beautiful tank, very natural looking!

Cheers
 
Hi all,
jonnyuk said:
6 gold tetra's, 6 Beckford pencil and a reverse trio of checkerboard (Dicrossus filamentosus
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I'd keep either the Tetra or the Pencil fish, but not both. I really like <"Hemigrammus rodwayi"> and was wondering about them with a dwarf cichlid. I keep away from <"real black water fish">, even our rain water isn't soft enough for them.
Conort2 said:
Careful with this combination, I had three males in a 5 foot tank and even that wasn’t enough space.
Click to expand...
Same for me much bigger tank required, even for a pair and dithers.
jonnyuk said:
My water params are not there yet, ph is to high (7), along with KH and GH ( i live in a hard water area and although the fish came from the same water i do want to lower everything), i have ordered some peat moss and i plan on running an experiment.
1 bucket with a 50/50 mix of RO and tap water
1 bucket with tap water and small filter full of peat
Click to expand...
Is rain-water an option? You need <"really soft water"> to keep Dicrossus filamentosus long term and <"very careful feeding">.
jonnyuk said:
across the JBL Tormec, any thoughts on this.
Click to expand...
It won't really help. Oak (Quercus spp.) leaves would help, with both softening and tannins, but you need to start with really soft water before they will make the pH fall.

cheers Darrel
 
The tank looks great! I have admired the Gold Tetras many times in my local MA - very understated from a distance, but when you get close those metallic flanks are stunning.

Don’t hold zero nitrates as a goal - you have live plants, so you will need to feed them if you want them to stay and look healthy.

As for getting softwater - what KH and GH are you reading out of the tap? Where are you getting the RO from? If you can generate it yourself, I’d just use 90-95% RO with 5-10% tap and be done with it.

Adding peat (JBL Tormec is just a baked peak I think) will add beneficial acids and tannins to stain the water, as will leaf litter and botanicals you add (Alder cones release a lot and are free to collect).

I believe the consensus is that tannins are rapidly degraded by light, so you just need to keep adding them, but turning your lighting down will help too. The peat should leach them over a decent period, but the aquarium manufactured types like the JBL/Eheim etc are pricy. A good alternative are Rooibos tea bags, which release similar elements. You can add them to the tank directly, and replace regularly, or steep them in a little water, and add the water to the tank as needed.
 
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I like how you have combined a very natural look with the twigs and driftwood, into something that resembles a triangular Scape. Best of both worlds 🙂
 
Very nice setup! I would love to do something like this with cardinals only and ridiculously soft and acidic water - pH down in the 3-5 range and TDS below 10. I would probably have to go plant-less 😱
 
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Think you could be onto a winner Michael .The Biotope Design Contest winner 2017 is a stream off the Rio Negro many small tetras and small fish occur in this habit. The tank has Cardinals and other small fish no plants sandy substrate plenty of branched wood and twigs leaf litter and tannin rich water.
 
Its a UKAP member who is one of the organisers and the 2018 results are in the Events on the forum Maybe the 2017 results are mentioned or possibly YT
 
Go down past the stickys in Events and both years Forum member Musyupick as put both results in threads 2018 and 2017🙂
 
thank you for all the advice and kind words. The additional male is currently in a breeding container floating in the tank, fins are shredded but he is alive. i will let him get better (if he does) and then return him to the shop. I can't remember what botanicals are in the tank but i got them from blackwater uk, along with oak leaves collected.
i think i'll try the teabags, will give that instant tan.

In regards the RO and tap water fix, would i not need to slightly re-mineralise the water, i seem to remember the water in the RN lacks allot of minerals anyway but surely must contain some, would it be best to go with re-mineralised RO?

i forgot to add my plant list (i actually dose 2ml of TNC Complete daily for the plants (still have 0 nitrates which suits the tank at the min)
Echinodorus Tenellus
Cabomba aquatica
Cabomba Red
Myriophyllum hippuroide
Got a sword from last setup
and could reset putting in my large cyrpt from the previous setup
 
jonnyuk said:
i think i'll try the teabags, will give that instant tan.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, I think it has to be Rooibos tea bags specifically - I don't think you can use normal tea bags.

I have tried three different types so far, some Teamonk ones (from Amazon), some Sainsbury's ones, and some Tik Tok (nothing to do with the crap social media site) ones.

The Sainbury's ones seem to produce the strongest colouration, but not by much, but aren't suitable for leaving in the tank as the bags break down rapidly and spill the tea everywhere. I've not tried the Tik Tok ones yet, but I imagine the same will apply. The Teamonk ones are the first I bought, and I've been using them for some time. They are more 'artisan' style tea bags with a string and tag, but they don't break down in the tank, and can be hung in a corner using the string but they are expensive at 10x the price per bag of the Sainsburys, so I won't be buying them again.

Longer term I will be looking for a reusable container that I can put in the tank to house the Sainsbury's teabags, that won't let the tea escape.
 
thanks for the info, i'll take a look today.
my peat arrived this morning, so experiment one is under, 12l of tap water with peat in a filter, lets see what it does to the water params.
I also have some RO now, so i'll mix that with some tap water, see what the params come out at, i might then add the peat in a filter to that, see if it brings the ph etc down further
 
jonnyuk said:
thanks for the info, i'll take a look today.
my peat arrived this morning, so experiment one is under, 12l of tap water with peat in a filter, lets see what it does to the water params.
I also have some RO now, so i'll mix that with some tap water, see what the params come out at, i might then add the peat in a filter to that, see if it brings the ph etc down further
Click to expand...

As Darrel says, I think you're going to struggle to get the pH down considerably without getting the KH down below 1. In you main tank you can probably get away with a higher KH as the CO2 injection will bring the pH down, but without the CO2 in your test buckets you're going to have to add a decent amount of acid from the peat to reduce the carbonates sufficiently.

You might want to consider doing away with the CO2 anyway, given your plant choices, you may not necessarily need it. That would allow you run with a zero KH anyway, like a true blackwater environment, and your peat and botanicals should then achieve the acidic pH you're after.
 
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