feel free to PM me if you ever need to. try to ask your main questions here on the thread so other can benefit from it as well.
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Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Coir TEC Combination
- Thread starter Happi
- Start date
KirstyF
Member
Ive been mentioned a couple of times so I’ll add my 5 pennies worth, mostly from a hard water tank perspective. 😊
I DIY both macro and micro but certainly can’t see why SSF TEC couldn’t be used as a micro mix and split dosed through the week.
As mentioned, this could still require some supplemental addition of an appropriate Fe in hard water/ high Ph tanks, which are more prone to Fe ‘issues’. (Particularly in high tech where the plants are being driven harder) but this would apply equally to any pre-mix micro using EDTA so not exclusive to this product by any means. To my knowledge, most liquid pre-mix products will not use anything stronger than EDTA as a chelater and therefore running into iron deficiencies can occur.
I have been testing various Fe ‘types’ and should have some further results to share in a couple of weeks, so bear with me on that.
As mentioned by @Happi, front loading the Solufeed 2:1:4 in higher Ph (or at EI levels) might be trickier due to Urea content so a cautious approach is wise and split dosing may therefore be preferable for that reason. Also, my instinct would tell me that, as some micros are more prone to becoming unavailable over time, particularly in higher Ph, and the 2:1:4 includes both macro and micro elements (which will go towards your total micro ppm target) this may also indicate that split dosing would be preferable to give the optimum availability of your targeted micro doses across a week. More so, the higher your Ph is.
As mentioned, I don’t dose N at all, due to already having high Nitrate in my tap and I therefore front-load just P/K and Mg (which works well for me and keeps parameters fairly stable) Micros are split dosed. If this is ur preferred option, a P/K mix is pretty easy to put together and I think most folks dose Mg separately anyway. The SSF TEC can then still be used as a micro (so it’s a half way house to going full DIY) albeit with additional Fe dosing if required.
You lucky folks with lower Ph need be less concerned about some of this and even tank to tank, plant to plant, there are differences. I have never yet seen an Fe deficiency in my low tech despite the Ph being consistently higher than the high tech so…..horses for courses.
It certainly would be great to get these products into the calculator somehow, though I understand the challenges!! They have got to be one of the cheapest ways of delivering ferts without going down the DIY route!! 😊
Due to the various testing I’m doing with individual ferts, this one is not for me right now, but would be great to get more feedback from anyone trialling them! 👍
I DIY both macro and micro but certainly can’t see why SSF TEC couldn’t be used as a micro mix and split dosed through the week.
As mentioned, this could still require some supplemental addition of an appropriate Fe in hard water/ high Ph tanks, which are more prone to Fe ‘issues’. (Particularly in high tech where the plants are being driven harder) but this would apply equally to any pre-mix micro using EDTA so not exclusive to this product by any means. To my knowledge, most liquid pre-mix products will not use anything stronger than EDTA as a chelater and therefore running into iron deficiencies can occur.
I have been testing various Fe ‘types’ and should have some further results to share in a couple of weeks, so bear with me on that.
As mentioned by @Happi, front loading the Solufeed 2:1:4 in higher Ph (or at EI levels) might be trickier due to Urea content so a cautious approach is wise and split dosing may therefore be preferable for that reason. Also, my instinct would tell me that, as some micros are more prone to becoming unavailable over time, particularly in higher Ph, and the 2:1:4 includes both macro and micro elements (which will go towards your total micro ppm target) this may also indicate that split dosing would be preferable to give the optimum availability of your targeted micro doses across a week. More so, the higher your Ph is.
As mentioned, I don’t dose N at all, due to already having high Nitrate in my tap and I therefore front-load just P/K and Mg (which works well for me and keeps parameters fairly stable) Micros are split dosed. If this is ur preferred option, a P/K mix is pretty easy to put together and I think most folks dose Mg separately anyway. The SSF TEC can then still be used as a micro (so it’s a half way house to going full DIY) albeit with additional Fe dosing if required.
You lucky folks with lower Ph need be less concerned about some of this and even tank to tank, plant to plant, there are differences. I have never yet seen an Fe deficiency in my low tech despite the Ph being consistently higher than the high tech so…..horses for courses.
It certainly would be great to get these products into the calculator somehow, though I understand the challenges!! They have got to be one of the cheapest ways of delivering ferts without going down the DIY route!! 😊
Due to the various testing I’m doing with individual ferts, this one is not for me right now, but would be great to get more feedback from anyone trialling them! 👍
Looking forward to the results.
I too have problem with Hard water & high PH. I’m currently Dosing TNC heavily together with DTPA iron. Recently I have started to ensure I only dose when the PH has dropped due to Co2 injection, and dose iron on alternative days to my TNC. This has given me the best results so far. I think when my PH rises with gas off over night any iron is gone. I am looking at trialling some of this EDDHA Iron Plus B to see if this improves things. I have to dose a lot of DTPA to see improvement, therefore think EDDHA may help.
If I don’t dose Iron every day I see deficiencies within the week, and it’s very extreme (totally white leaves).
KirstyF
Member
So far my best result was a mix of DTPA in my micros mix, plus an Fe gluconate dose on opposite days and I’m currently testing Fe gluconate only, with no DTPA or other chelated iron at all. (Only just started this one)
I did try a DTPA and EDDHA mix but it didn’t really help for me.
We also have someone just starting to play with a mix of all 3.
In fairness the response to addition of gluconate was rapid and obvious, and this was not the case with stronger chelates, so this is the one that really interests me, particularly as it is not chelated at all, which is counterintuitive.
Ultimately I would like to be able to deduce what type of Fe or Fe mix, at what dosing level and frequency is most successful (in my tank at least) and am hoping that info might be useful to others. With quite a few possible variations however, and the need to re-induce chlorosis between test doses, it takes a bit of time.
My tests are not fully complete but right now, I would advise supplementing gluconate (Seachem Flourish Iron) during the early part of the photoperiod at maybe 0.15ppm on opposite days to your TNC, to see if you get good results. If you do decide to try this, please do let us know how you get on, and I will update as my tests progress.
That's exactly what I thought yesterday when talking to @Zeus. although I didn't mention it to him. Even if I'm not using Solufeed myself, in my current tank I have split my fert dose to x3 times a week with each dose pushing 0.67ppm of Urea. Double dosing that the first few weeks had the consequence of GDA/hair algae exploding. I'm now just doing a single dose after WC and adding the rest in small amounts everyday so I am now technically dosing 7x week.
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Do you have a dedicated thread for for this I can post to? So. im not hijacking this thread, lol.
I will give the seachem iron a go as per your suggestion and dose it together with the DTPA and report back.
For your info my GH is 13, KH 10, PH before gas 7.6 (degassed 8.0-8.1), after gas 6.8-6.9. Currently dosing N:18,P:2.4,K:60,Mg:9.6,Fe EDTA 0.96 & 1ppm DTPA per week. The Fe EDTA looks a high figure, but I know this is not available to the plants, as can be seen in the photo when I stop dosing DTPA. I know the K Potassium levels look high, but this is simply how the TNC mix is (and I am aiming for EI levels), and as I have found, the more I dose, the less algae I get 😀
Photo of Pogostemon Helferi after stoping dosing DTPA for a week, then starting again
KirstyF
Member
The issue has generated some interest on a few threads so, although I was going to wait a bit, I think I’ll start a post to show results so far and that can open the discussion.
I’ll look at getting something on this evening after work.
Your photo does beautifully illustrate that it was certainly an Fe issue, so that’s great. 👍
We can get into some more detail once the new thread is up.
Chat later. 😊
I’ll look at getting something on this evening after work.
Your photo does beautifully illustrate that it was certainly an Fe issue, so that’s great. 👍
We can get into some more detail once the new thread is up.
Chat later. 😊
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
We have a <"few posts"> that look at iron (Fe) deficiency, water hardness and different chelators.
Pogostemon helferi is a <"frequent contributor">, along with <"Rotala rotundifolia">.Photo of Pogostemon Helferi after stoping dosing DTPA for a week, then starting again
cheers Darrel
Thanks Darrel, funnily enough Rotala Rotundifolia is other plant I had problems with
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
It looks a pretty good canary and is definitely a soft water (low dKH) plant. @Kezzab has very successfully grown some plants emersed, <"in a pot with a Sarracenia">.
cheers Darrel
KirstyF
Member
I’ve got Rotala H’ra doing ok in my hard water, which I believe is a Rotundifolia variant, albeit, it took a good while and some persistence to get it going. Wallichii though…failed and failed again! 🙄
Interesting I might give H'ra a go at some point. Currently giving rotala macrandra a go, very early stages
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
I'd guess it is much like terrestrial <"calcifuge"> plants, you can keep them going if you <"can continually supply"> iron (Fe++(+)) and magnesium (Mg++) ions.
cheers Darrel
Karacticus
Member
Hi @Happi. Just so I am super clear, is it okay to mix the above two products into a single 500ml bottle? I read that you should dose macros and micros on different days as they can inhibit one another. So would it help to mix up two 500ml solutions and then dose:
Monday/Wednesday/Friday - 2:1:4 10ml dose each day
Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday - TEC 10ml dose each day
Sunday - 50% water change (after first few weeks of more frequent changes)
Or just mix the two and dose 10ml three days a week? Or have I got this all horribly wrong?
Lastly, is there any benefit to daily dosing over three days?
Hoping to get tank up and running next weekend.
Thanks
Mark
If the concentration is high enough, then yes they can react and inhibit some of the nutrients, acidifing the solution can help these integrations also. I would be tempted not to mix them and play it safe.
Also with Solufeeds 2:1:4 nitrogen coming from ammonium compounds as well as nitrates, it is also safer/better to dose a little and often then the microflora will have plenty of time to keep the intermediate products of the nitrogen cycle at safe levels. @Happi designed his mix as 1ppm N as this should be a safe level that any mature tank can handle.
With Solufeed trace elements there is no Nitrogen componds so a few times a week (or less) is fine
Hi Mark,
what size of tank will this be used on? I assume it would be used on this tank here ? i just like to double check to make sure.
the original idea of this thread was to combine them together to make it easy for the user to just dose with one bottle, it would be all in one solution. when combining them or not, you can always add some Vinegar to acidify the solution, 5-10 ml Vinegar added to 450ml Distilled water then add your fertilizers and mix, then add more distilled water till you reach the 500 ml, you can use this link as a guide.
the reaction and precipitation can occur if the PH is not acidic, EDTA Fe is more prone to this compared to DTPA Fe, these product do contain EDTA Fe but its possible to maintain their stability with the acidic solution. I do not have these product on hand to test it but am quite confident that you shouldn't see this issue if you made the solution acidic and did everything correctly. make sure you also always use Distilled water when making solution, some people prefer using RO water, but i do not recommend that, as the water still isn't 100% Pure. you can also add some potassium sorbate to preserve the solution if you are planning on storing them for few months
as explained earlier that Solufeed 2:1:4 does contain Urea (not same as dosing NH3/NH4) and the way i set the recommended dose, it should be quite safe to play with it. you can decide weather you want to Combine them and test them that way or weather you want to dose them separately. I believe you have separate salts such as KNO3, KH2PO4, MgSo4 ? in that case you can use Solufeed Sodium Free TEC to make your Micros and Macros, either combine them or dose them separately. its totally up to you, as you can see that you have several options here, but it would be nice to see how the Original combination plays out as I was looking for more people to test this out.
the above dosing will further depend on how the tank is planted, We will have to consider the Soil as well (even if its capped with another substrate), with new setup there are lot of things to consider, you are also likely to deal with some kind of algae during the early stage of setup. we might end up only using Solufeed Sodium Free TEC combined with K2SO4 in the early stage if you have that or we might use the original combination but set the doses to very low levels in early stages.
the way I cycle the new setups is something like this:
1. setup everything, add substrate, heater, filter etc.
2. let the tank run without any lights for 1-2 months
3. let the tank run with very little water changes (if you use RO water, this is highly useful)
4. after 1-2 Months, change the water close to 90% (if you could do 100% then that's even better)
5. then fill the tank and then perform 90-100% water change immediately after doing #4
6. fill the tank again and add plants and setup the CO2, add GH, Dose Nutrients etc.
Karacticus
Member
Thanks, @Zeus. Much appreciated! 🙂
It is 297 litres, but yes that link.
All noted. I am more than happy to try it out the original combo - but might go for alternating days. Unless you are specifically looking at them combined together in one solution? Guessing it shouldn't make too much difference, should it? I just want something I can dose fairly easily each day.
I'm planning on planting fairly heavily with mostly South American species - although it will be a mix, as there are some species I love from elsewhere. But it will include a good proportion of fast-growing stems, plus some floating plants and I want to play with some houseplants above water at some point. All in all, there should not be a shortage of hungry plants. The substrate is ADA Amazonia v.2 (approx. 16 litres) in mesh bags and then capped with sand.
I have no doubt this is an optimal way of setting up, but I'm not that patient unfortunately! 😄 I was planning to cycle it with a load of plants and start with 50% power on my Chihiros WRGB2 Pro and a shorter photoperiod until it gets settled - maybe six hours a day to start. I am sure I'll get some algae, but figured it was part of the rite of passage! I am just really keen to get some plants in there.
Thanks both for your help and advice!
Karacticus
Member
Hi, me again. Sorry. So, my plants are arriving this afternoon and I am planting up tomorrow morning. I will mix up as described and happy to try it as one bottle to start with for @Happi 's experiment. My tank is likely to have around 75 gallons with hardscape etc, so I have calculated that I would dose 3 x 30ml for a weekly total of N3 for EI method. Some additional questions for anyone, please:
- If I go for 3 x 30ml doses, what day and time of day is optimal to dose? If I water change on a Sunday, might it be Monday, Wednesday and Friday in the morning? I work, so option of first thing or early evening only. This would leave a two day window where nutrient levels would be lower, perhaps - is that an issue? Or is the theory that the accumulated levels will be greater prior to water change, so less requirement to add more?
- Or is there a benefit in splitting this into 6 x daily doses of 15ml i.e. a more steady supply of nutrients? Monday to Saturday, water change Sunday?
Thanks
Mark
I wound always dose straight after a WC. Also six days a week is better then x3 a week as you will be dosing an amonium based nitrogen fert, so as the tank cycles the amonium based salts the nitrite levels will always be lower ie - less peak levels, so safer margin for livestock.
When I was dosing Urea as a source of nitrogen at EI levels I dosed it in very small volumes, x100 times a week, few drops every 12 minutes. My DIY auto doser was able to have very fine control.
Rest day of ferts always best day before WC, thats if your having a rest day.
The rest day came about as folk was dry dosing so it gave folk a day off, auto dosers dont need a day off.
When I was dosing Urea as a source of nitrogen at EI levels I dosed it in very small volumes, x100 times a week, few drops every 12 minutes. My DIY auto doser was able to have very fine control.
Rest day of ferts always best day before WC, thats if your having a rest day.
The rest day came about as folk was dry dosing so it gave folk a day off, auto dosers dont need a day off.
