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Sand substrate recommendations . . .

So I had a reply from Unipac regarding the availability of the darker, and coarser, "Silica Sand" listed on their website:

Thank you for your email with reference to Silica Sand.

Unfortunately, the quarry where we used to get the Silica Sand (the darker material)from closed down and we were unable to find another supplier.

The only material we offer is the Aquarium Silica Sand.
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. . . which is a shame - though it explains why I can't find any online.
 
Wookii said:
do you think then with a 70mm substrate depth, and using most sands at around 0.25mm-1.0mm (possibly with the exception of the very fine silver sand) I'll be able to get sufficient nutrient transfer to a high CEC base layer?
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I think with time and even with turkey blasting the substrate a time will come when the detritus build up in the substrate will reduce the CEC properties of any substrate, I am thinking fine sand ATM as then any detritus will be on top of sand and easy to remove/spot.
 
Hi all,
Wookii said:
I'll be able to get sufficient nutrient transfer to a high CEC base layer?
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My guess is that you will, but I don't know exactly what processes occur in the substrate, and my guess is that <"nobody else does either">.

Most plants that naturally grow emergent from water (like most of our aquarium plants) <"have adaptations"> to deal with deep, muddy and anaerobic substrates.
Zeus. said:
I am thinking fine sand ATM as then any detritus will be on top of sand and easy to remove/spot.
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Definitely what I found with the lab. tank. It had a layer of mulm all along the back of the tank, but really clean sand down to the bottom glass. I don't ever syphon the tanks, but I think the <"high temperatures during lock down"> may have killed off <"my tank janitors">.

cheers Darrel
 
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Zeus. said:
I think with time and even with turkey blasting the substrate a time will come when the detritus build up in the substrate will reduce the CEC properties of any substrate, I am thinking fine sand ATM as then any detritus will be on top of sand and easy to remove/spot.
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When you say fine sand, do you mean the finest silver sand type stuff at around 0.15-0.25mm?
 
I've taken a punt on the the JBL Sansibar Orange that @Conort2 recommended, as its quite cost effective at £26 for 10Kg delivered, and the images look good.

When I get it I'll put up some images of it next to the other sands I have now, for anyone elses reference should anyone want it.
 
Hi all,
Wookii said:
When you say fine sand, do you mean the finest silver sand type stuff at around 0.15-0.25mm?
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That is what I have in some of the tanks, (bought as <"play sand">). Some have slightly coarser sand, which I bought as <"Aquarium sand">. Years ago I <"sourced pool filter sand">, but I'm not sure it offers any advantage and I actually prefer a finer silica sand grain.

This is what Norwegian Apistogramma expert, <"Tom Christoffersen"> said about <"substrates in the Amazon basin">.

cheers Darrel
 
Wookii said:
Thanks Paul, I’ll check that out. Is this image representative?

View attachment 161295

If so it may be a bit too light in colouration, similar to the La Plata.
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Its darker than the La Plata and compliments it well. I have both and I'm going to use both in sand area. Pics are off the actual sand, I have wet it slightly just for the pics as always looks darker when wet.
 

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dw1305 said:
Hi all,

That is what I have in some of the tanks, (bought as <"play sand">). Some have slightly coarser sand, which I bought as <"Aquarium sand">. Years ago I <"sourced pool filter sand">, but I'm not sure it offers any advantage and I actually prefer a finer silica sand grain.

This is what Norwegian Apistogramma expert, <"Tom Christoffersen"> said about <"substrates in the Amazon basin">.

cheers Darrel
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Thanks Darrel, that's useful to read. I had largely discounted the finer sands because I had assumed they were associated with compaction issues, and not allowing sufficient transfer to any base layer. So you are saying it would make little difference in practice?
 
Hi all,
Wookii said:
So you are saying it would make little difference in practice?
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It doesn't seem to in my tanks, but I'm using soft water, I plant really heavily, I don't add many nutrients, I don't have a huge fish stock, I feed mainly live food, I always have Trumpet snails (Melanoides tuberculata) and Asellus etc. So I'm not sure how generally it can be applied.

Stephan Tanner covers some of this in <"Aquarium Biofiltration">.
......... The microbial community varies greatly depending on the availability of foods, pore sizes, and substrates. Soil biofiltration is therefore very plastic, meaning it can cope with a variety of conditions. However, one feature is common. Natural layers of biofiltration are usually undisturbed for longer periods of time (many weeks and months). In nature, no one squeezes out the debris or rinses the media on a weekly schedule...........The microorganisms eat the debris and the sludge is completely broken down into gases and soluble products that then escape the pore space. Soil biofilters are almost maintenance-free. The released substances are either getting into the atmosphere or are taken up by plants..........
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cheers Darrel
 
Wookii said:
the obvious horror stories - "gas from the sand killed my fish" kind of thing
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I bet you won't find one with a proven link. Mostly it's "my fish died so it must be the sand, because I couldn't have done anything wrong".
Years ago unexplained fish deaths wereusually attributed to feeding live Tubifex, again without any evidence. It was easy because everybody fed it. Now it's almost impossible to get, but fish are still dying. 🙂
 
dean said:
Argos play sand ?
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I was looking at this earlier on their website and several of the reviews on the first 2 or 3 pages are from fishkeepers who recommend it. The cost is only five quid for a 15kg bag so would not break the bank to buy a bag to assess colour and grain size. (The picture on the website is not ideal but it does indicate a darker tan shade). It does not fit with the substrate I am planning for my current build but would definitely be part of the plan for possible future tanks featuring Rams or Corys.
 
dean said:
Argos play sand ?
B&Q builders sand ?
How dark do you want it ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Just a little darker than the Unipac Aquarium Silica Sand that I have, somewhere closer to the discontinued Unipac silica sand I pictured above - though @dw1305 has thrown me now with the comments on the fine silver sand, so I have a couple of samples of the two Unipac Silver Sands coming now also. Plus the images of the Darrel links to, plus others I've seen of the Amazon underwater shots show lighter coloured sand, so I'm a bit conflicted now. Ultimately I'll have a fair few samples to try now, so I'll add them to a glass vase and see what they look like underwater.

Maf 2500 said:
I was looking at this earlier on their website and several of the reviews on the first 2 or 3 pages are from fishkeepers who recommend it. The cost is only five quid for a 15kg bag so would not break the bank to buy a bag to assess colour and grain size. (The picture on the website is not ideal but it does indicate a darker tan shade). It does not fit with the substrate I am planning for my current build but would definitely be part of the plan for possible future tanks featuring Rams or Corys.
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I'll check out the Argos play sand - I need to buy some for my daughters sand play table in the garden once the weather gets better anyway, so none of these sands will go to waste.
 
Hi all,
Wookii said:
plus others I've seen of the Amazon underwater shots show lighter coloured sand
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It is just because the sand is all silica sand (SiO4), everything else has been dissolved away by the very acid water. In this <"Amazonas" article on Uruguay"> you can see some much more pebbly biotopes.

cheers Darrel
 
Just to add to the numerous options. Here's a picture of some B&M play pit sand. I got put off by the grain size but reading this thread I might revisit it. I'm still a little worried about how easy it would be to get it caught in a cleaning pad and scratch the glass.IMG_20210128_095950.jpg
 
You can poke around in sand,without releasing any detritus into the water column.
No need for a turkey baster
 
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