Round indoor pond project queries.

[sciencefiction]

Thanks Andy

I might in the end get 2-3 more baby clowns and call it a day with the stocking, ha, ha....The denison barbs do come to the surface to feed now and as you said, so do the clowns but they swim down afterwards to find the fallen leftovers giving a chance to other fish to eat...

I suspect that your past bba probs were caused by the clowns picking at the plants the bba in my clown tank looked very similar. I think that it is possible to keep clowns with plants but only very robust species, expect some damage and algae around the damage.

You could be right about that...the clowns click at almost every newly grown anubias leaf but if the leaf is old they don't bother.....I've gotten used to looking at plant leaves with a hole in them.. The SAEs did start picking at algae which hopefully will keep things in check..The rest of algae issues will hopefully be prevented by fresh water and relatively low organic load. The BBA I transferred from the old tank isn't visibly spreading or growing in any way, so far...even with more light but I noticed one of my large anubias from an upright position, moved itself and is now horizontally lying almost over the substrate I think its trying to escape the light The clowns seem to love anubias though...They tend to squeeze themselves inside some of the nana anubias bunches and lay there happily And they forage every plant pot for food too I think they dislike the crypts though, no visible damage besides turning the pots sideways

 

[alto]

Don't give up on finding an upper dwelling species - it will come

 

[sciencefiction]

Thanks alto. The search is still ongoing

Here's the weekly episode of the clown loaches. I had already fed them when I took this video but had forgotten to press the record button so I took a second one with some extra food...I also just hand fed the SAE's It was the first time they came to my hand, they were so cute but my phone was not reachable with my other hand so couldn't record it...next time..

 

[sciencefiction]

I found an old video of my clowns from the year I bought them...They must be nearing 4.5 - 5 years now in fairness...The video is featuring my dog Angie. She was just a cute puppy then

The laser corys with the "pin" tails arrived like that in my online order. They were put in bags with tiny bit of water and half their bodies were outside the water when I unpacked...The tails never really recovered.

 

[sciencefiction]

Doing a water change....and getting SAE spa trearment I am sure I am algae free now

 

[sciencefiction]

I came back home today a bit late and the lights were off but I couldn't resist and turned on the room light to take a look. What I saw was loaches lined up against the side of the tank in a row....chilling...Big loach laying on his side in a typical "sleep" clown loach position....happy as larry....He wasn't very bothered by me turning on the room light...Then I decided to let them know I am around and started talking to them..lol....They weren't very interested at first but eventually got up of their lazy bums and came over near the surface to see what the fuss was about

 

[sciencefiction]

Well, I got 9 cute baby harlequin rasboras.....They've just been acclimated and are in my small tank with two more baby clown loaches....I know very little about these rasboras and like a newbie, I asked the owner of the shop(its a small local shop). He said they're from Indonesia, same water where clown loaches come(he knows what fish I keep) and the water there he says is with ph between 7 and 7.6... Funny, because I found a paper on breeding clown loaches and it says exactly the same....high ph...where everyone seems to think clown loaches come from soft acidic water....I'll post it if anyone is interested...

6 of the rasboras started schooling around straight away but 3 are hiding. I know the rasboras are quite common but they are super cute......

One of the clown loaches is breathing heavily and is pretty stressed from what I can tell....we'll see how it goes...They spent about 2 hrs in the bags..but I am pretty certain they were at least two weeks in the shop because one of them is a spotted loach and he was there the last time.

I copied and pasted this from my other thread.....was too lazy to write down the same thing again...

By the time I did other things around, all the 9 rasboras were out schooling and the two clowns were exploring so not too much to worry about right now. I just need to be on top of water changes because the little tank they are in has had no fish bar the shrimp since I moved the corys and kuhli loaches out. These rasboras are extremely cute....I already love them, common but extremely beautiful fish and I love the way they behave...They were very pale while acclimating but same as my denison barbs, returned colour pretty fast once in the target tank....

If the clowns get ick, it will severely mess up my tank because I'd have to treat with heat and salt, and kill the hundreds of shrimp in there...The shrimp can't stand the salt...I hope I won't need to...because I'd have to move out the shrimp first.....This is the 5th time I quarantine new clown loaches(5,1,1,2,2 with one jumper to a total of 10 surviving) and I only dealt with ick once..with a single loach which is so big now I can't tell him apart from the older loaches....He did very well during the treatment and he grew very fast because I overfed him....cost me a severe diatom and blue green algae outbreak a year and a half ago in the same tank I have these new fish in..

For anyone interested, the link below is about attempts on breeding clown loaches but it has info on optimum temperatures(not the only source that quotes 26c ideal for clown loaches and temperatures anything beyond 29C being bad and can kill small clown loach fry) and also Ph of their water in the wild ( apparently it varies between 6.86-8.00 but nothing like the soft/acidic suggested in most sources online)and although I was pretty certain clown loaches do not mind high ph one bit, I have the proof for it...Hence I keep buying fish from similar water. I think the info online is messed up....or my interpretation of it is messed up ....

I saw clowns that were kept in extremely acidic water(as suggested online...peat swamps and the like), and were in a horrible state....not because of not being looked after or the tank was left unkept...I also came across info that kuhli loaches(again same online suggestions for soft water preferences if you browse around....actually get spinal deformities in time when kept in soft water...)I read and watched an online video of harlequin rasboras in the wild and depending on collection spot, the can be found in the same water as clowns...so I stick to the "scientific papers" and nature youtube videos and not common say...I could be wrong...but I have the best intentions and they won't be my first casualties should I be wrong and the worst happens...

Clown loaches breeding attempts paper
https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:916235/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Happy Christmas everyone

All the best.

 

[sciencefiction]

Please excuse the horrible pictures and the state of the tank..... ....I just wanted to show some cute little harequin rasbora fry. The tank is healthy and is water changed a lot but I sort of don't overclean it as in wiping it sparkling looking because it works well with shrimp. They munch on the glass stuff, and the other decor, whatever develops there...The shrimp actually got spooked out by the fish for a bit, acting very scared...but I don't think they have anything to fear of...
The hydrophila, a high iron sponge, has been just surviving in there because I forget to dose this tank.

I moved one of the outlets down and pushed the other tiny internal down because I added some salvinia and I don't want it to be bashed around...just before I added the fish, the shrimp were all over the salvinia...they loved the floating plants.

 

[sciencefiction]

I'll start with the bad news. I lost one of the harlequin rasboras. I found it floating on the surface last Sunday morning on Christmas day. Its probably a combination of rushing the acclimation on Friday evening because I also had to unpack the Christmas food shopping, plus too many fish at once in a tank left without fish and food for a while, all newbie sort of mistakes...but I think there was an ammonia spike of some sort judging by the fish. On Sunday, after scooping the dead fish out, I took one of my old prefilter sponges that sat on the external filters for years, hooked that up to an eheim pump I have and to a broken eheim external on which the motor doesn't work but I now use just the body of it for filter media. The flow is a bit excessive...blew all the floaters away but it seemed to have done the trick filtration wise as later that day I could see by the fish they were feeling better.

The remaining 8 plus the 2 clowns are still in there. I think they are over the hurdle...I hope...but there is nothing worse than introduce fish to an ammonia/nitrite spiking tank...

There they are below feeding. I have to turn off the external to feed them. I crushed some food as I don't even own small enough food for them. I also give them chopped frozen food like bloodworms and some mixture one that contains all sorts of insects. They seem to shoot to the surface to feed and they don't pick up anything that goes below half way down. They seem very young so they'll stay in this tank for a while. I hope they make it fine to get transitioned to the other tank.



and a close up video. They seem to also spend quite a bit of time going to the filter flow and getting blown....not sure if its good or bad but they go there on purpose.

 

[sciencefiction]

There they are below swimming in the flow...I know too much flow is not good for these fish but I can't reduce the flow with the alternative filter setup. The thing is, the fish don't do it all the time. I am certain they've learned their way around the tank and where the flow is because they swam just fine around for hours around without getting caught in the flow. Then at some stage they seem to have gotten bored and all of them just started swimming in and out of the where the spraybar flow hits the glass..They either think its fun or its a stress response...I can't tell.

 

[sciencefiction]

I think the Halrequin rasboras are getting a bit more coloured by the day. I could be imagining though. I took another video of them today when they don't bother playing in the flow...I am still trying to learn their habits and what's normal behaviour and what's not....Even youtube can't help too much with that.. The only thing now is to see how long they'll fair in my hard water...I am probably being cruel getting them but anything that gets bought from my local shop will end up in hard water. And as I mentioned previously, I am hoping that they'll do as well as my other fish that come from the same area of the world...They are otherwise the perfect top dweller fish I wanted to get. I wish there were more in the shop because 8 small fish will get lost in a bigger space...



In my other tank I've noticed my baby clown loach has made friends with one of my 4-5 year old loaches, the first ones I ever bought. I call this older loach Mr. Grey. From day one since I bought him he always greys out with the lights on even though all his other friends would rarely do to such an extent...I was worried for a long time he was sick of something I could not see....He's been now seen daily browsing and hanging around with the baby loach. He even follows the small loach for food, the small loach follows the barbs and SAEs when I feed them with the lights on, sort of a chain effect. I've noticed loaches have very different personalities and habits and some are more outgoing than others as a rule.

 

[sciencefiction]

By the way...I keep noticing my java fern on these videos. This java fern sorry looking plant you may see out the back is about 6+ years old and that's the most its grown. It's been in almost every tank I've had...It's attached to a tiny peace of wood....I could never ever grow that damn "easy" to grow plant. My narrow leaf variety is suffering as much... I have bits of it left in the other tank....almost no growth in 3+ years, just somehow surviving and growing enough leaves to do so...I've no idea why....My guess is micro nutrient sucker and my water is limited on that.,,,though I've read it loves rich potassium...only guessing. Also, you can see my always iron limited hydrophila....pale new leaves....I don't bother much at all in this small tank.

Some plants are more sensitive to certain nutrient limitations than others and my crypts are not that much bothered with very rare dosing. I do need to clean up the algae on the glass though if I keep posting videos online I just see no other reason to do so.....There are times when an army of shrimp invades the glass when they are super hungry. They would also eat it immediately if I scrape it off, or disturb it in a similar manner...even if I rub on it with my hands... Otherwise its super tough for them to get to...so it tends to stay...I suppose it has turned into layers of biofilm of all sorts of creatures by now.....I got it with the algae outbreaks a long enough time ago and never cleaned it off since.. I sort of like the look...don't blame me..

 

[sciencefiction]

Well, it looks that those little harlequins have brought in mouth rot/columnaris. I just saw one of them with its mouth wide open and sort of rotting. I don't know if this fish will make it after this and how contagious it is, and the first death may have been related....It makes more sense now to me.. I had some old seachem kanaplex/kanamycin sulfate and I dosed the first dose. I only have enough for 2-3 doses max. I am pretty sure now I saw the mouth fungus on the fish two days ago on one of the videos I took but thought its a distortion of some kind due to me zooming on the fish. It was impossible to see with the naked eye..Today its clearly visible... Ah, well...first time for everything...I am glad now I didn't put these fish in the other tank...

Here it is

 

[sciencefiction]

The fish on the picture above died within an hour of my post. It was too late to be saved...These fish are so tiny it was almost impossible to see the white rot on its mouth when it hadnt yet developed...and I wasnt looking for it too either....There was also damage at the base of the dorsal. I am pretty certain it is columnaris but doesnt seem like a severely aggressive strain.

I am on the second dose of antibiotics. It is supposed to be effective against columnaris..I am lucky i had it on hand though I dont know how effective it is because I bought it 4 years ago..

It seems to me the disease takes about 3 days to kill a fish and the fish must have had it when I bought them because I moved out perfectly healthy fish out if this tank prior.

On a positive note I think that for some reason the treatment has perked up the clown loaches alot..not sure why..Now all these fish are doomed to stay in this tank for a few months...if they make it through..fingers crossed that was the last casualty...

 

[sciencefiction]

Sorry about the noise on the video...The remaining 7 while I have them... I can see them better in the video...So far they are holding on but its been just 3 days since treatment started and the last death. Strange though that despite the lesions the dead fish had not lost any colour and was swimming with the rest less than an hour before it died...

The rest are looking almost a red colour..they are so dark...And they keep swimming normally. I cant see any issue at the moment...

 

[sciencefiction]

Well, more boring details about my sick fish....The remainder 7 are holding on and I can't see any external signs of infections. They ate bloodworms today readily..The treatment will be over tomorrow...Its supposed to be just 6 days....I am deliberating at adding one more dose as normally antibiotics are supposed to be dosed for around 10 days but it doesn't say so on the instructions on this one....I just have enough left for one more dose.

I am a bit worried about one of the clown loaches, hides a lot and I can't see him come out for food. I've never had a small loach that is skittish. There are/were snails and baby shrimplets in the tank so he won't starve...but I wouldn't know. He looks ok otherwise...better than the better behaved loach The other loach is paler, was very pale in the shop too, like a sheet of paper and has not gained too much colour but is going after food quite readily. I do see them browse the tank when the lights are off mostly, again quite uncommon for young loaches to be skittish and not playing around. I've had single baby loaches go bananas non stop so far...I hope once the treatment is over they do a bit better..I know they'd do way better in the bigger tank but sadly can't risk it...One of the reasons I was having doubts about getting friends for my earlier small loach is because the rest of the stock in the shop was poor...maybe I shouldn't have bothered...but I already have them....There could be another issue with them...I'll have to wait and see...

 

[sciencefiction]

I decided against the last dose of antibiotics....I have dosed as much as its recommended. I did another large water change and put two carbon pads in my old internal filter which in fact came with the filter when I bought it many years ago, but I had never used....I see no external signs...no need to stress the fish further..Time will tell...I think the antibiotic did its job to prevent anymore deaths and that's about as much as antibiotic can do...Now its time for the immune system to kick back in...

The strange thing is that when I drained the water from the tank, down to just 30% of water, the "non-eating" clown loach came out to eat the pellets I had just put before the water change. It was the first time I put these pellets. They are larger ones I feed my larger clown loaches with and they are crazy about them. He did not come out at all while I wasn't doing a water change. I watched him for 15min and although the other loach was munching, this one wasnt...too much flow maybe...but without the filters on he went for it..I know I had to shut down my powerhead years ago for the same reasons with my other clowns....They hated extreme flow....I have a 1250l/h Eheim pump through the old eheim filter and another 450l/h internal filter on a 60-ish litre tank.....anyway just observing and talking aloud...

On another hand, those rasboras keep going right under the spraybar flow....playing...Then they get tired and retire in the other half of the tank swimming just fine...I normally have to get up very early, the tank lights are then off, and I see them scattered around the tank, including in the higher flow area, just hanging in one spot with no problem..sleeping..So I am guessing/hoping the play in the flow is just a play...They do seem to like it...They look ok...if it wasn't the sickness thing..I'd say they look very good..colour and all...

After all this worry about this tank..I have not spent any time observing my other fish...busy holidays and all...I looked for a couple of minutes today...and gosh...those denison barbs have put up some length and girth. So has my other very young clown loach. He's twice as wide as my "sickly" new loaches and a big tail longer. He seems like a very happy bunny...a very outgoing fish....He was like that while he was quarantined in that same tank I am treating right now...Clown loaches have such different personalities and I think I got two very shy ones this time...or very sick ones...

 

[sciencefiction]

I want to show how well the denison barbs and SAEs get on together. They swim in one big school. The little clown loach often joins them and it seems the others have gotten used to him being amongst them.

My floaters as you can see, are still struggling. I haven't dosed kno3 in two weeks...just to see how the plants would do and they don't do well....They also got stranded under water around the baskets last week as the water level dropped too low..so they are looking worse for it...I hadn't filled the tank high enough after the previous water change.

Its beautiful to watch the fish move around the tank. They are also easy subjects to video because they come the moment I stand near the tank...



My parlour palm flowered about two weeks ago...Its the spiky looking thing right in the center...

 

[sciencefiction]

And some clown loaches below. The problem now is that the camera keeps focusing on the floating plants and blurs the fish underneath..Its the best I can do unless I get an underwater camera...

 

[sciencefiction]

I was just feeding the fish and all of a sudden I noticed all kuhli loaches come out for food too. It was sort of terrifying to watch for the first moment They look like wiggling worms and extremely small compared to the loaches...They actually were hanging out mostly amongst the driftwood and two came out under one of the plastic pots which is somehow tilted on one side I kept watching for a while...thankfully the clown loaches completely ignore them and were sifting around them without showing any interest... but the kuhlis do look like fish's dinner. My big loach is massive and I've no doubt if she/he wants to, she can eat them like spaghetti... They've so far never attacked any fish that I ever saw or was gone missing...Nevertheless, the mere size difference doesn't feel comfortable to watch..