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Rotala changes colour daily.....

Think the lighting for Red plants was discussed by Balazs Green Aqua and when you look at their gallery the reds of all species look pretty amazing( compared to mine)Ray Watanbe YT channel observed similar comparing ADA with the latest Chrios same plants same tank
 
PARAGUAY said:
Think the lighting for Red plants was discussed by Balazs Green Aqua and when you look at their gallery the reds of all species look pretty amazing( compared to mine)Ray Watanbe YT channel observed similar comparing ADA with the latest Chrios same plants same tank
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Considering Green Aqua video, the company intervenes in editing with various filters. So I would not be so confident in what we usually can see on videos on YT or elsewhere, unless it has not been edited. But then, can we be sure was it, or was it not.
 
Thats a good point Kris .I think in Green Aquas case the plants must be that good too many scapers from George Farmer to Dave Chow have visited so we can be confident they are that good .l know many YT have commercial support why not and its a case of finding the channels that fairly assesss the products. End of the day lovely images can be obtained with T5s and ADA lighting . I definetly would like to go with ADA but the cost? Not to say its not worth it .
 
Hi all,
Christel said:
I think it has nothing to do with nutrients.
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Christel said:
The reddish colouring (what we like) is to be seen as a common reaction (protection) against too intense light.
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We have a few posts about anthocyanins as <"sun-screen" in plants">. I think that nutrients may have some role in how red a plant appears, mainly because anthocyanins accumulate in the cell vacuole and <"are masked by the chlorophyll in a dark green leaf">.

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all,


We have a few posts about anthocyanins as <"sun-screen" in plants">. I think that nutrients may have some role in how red a plant appears, mainly because anthocyanins accumulate in the cell vacuole and <"are masked by the chlorophyll in a dark green leaf">.

cheers Darrel
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In that post you mention lowering nitrates which is done to bring out red pigments, something which i have not attempted as i've just dosed "full EI".

My tapwater contains on average 35ppm of nitrate with a minimum level at 24ppm. In other posts you also mention there will naturally be less nitrate and phosphate in tapwater during the winter months because theres a lot less farming going on. Does that mean below the minimum figure? I do big water changes of 80%, so i'm thinking to rely on my tap water for nitrates considering i have tried everything else except lowering nitrates.
 
Hi all,
Sammy Islam said:
In that post you mention lowering nitrates which is done to bring out red pigments, something which i have not attempted as i've just dosed "full EI".

My tapwater contains on average 35ppm of nitrate with a minimum level at 24ppm. In other posts you also mention there will naturally be less nitrate and phosphate in tapwater during the winter months because theres a lot less farming going on. Does that mean below the minimum figure? I do big water changes of 80%, so i'm thinking to rely on my tap water for nitrates considering i have tried everything else except lowering nitrates.
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The 24 ppm NO3 will be the minimum value that they recorded.

Because you live in the SE of England (where you've had a large population for a long time) you have a considerable input from treated waste water, and even the aquifers will contain high levels of nitrate. The same would apply to phosphate (PO4---) in surface water, but because you live in a hard water area much of that PO4--- will have precipitated out of the water column as calcium phosphate.

Your water company isn't obliged to report levels of potassium (K) or phosphorus (P), so we don't have values for them in the tap water. If you did want to test your water for them with a test kit, potassium is problematic (due to the solubility of group one metals) but the <"JBL sensitive phosphate kit"> would give you a ball park figure.

I'd leave potassium nitrate (KNO3) out of your mix and see what happens. If you only want to change the NO3 level, and leave everything else the same, you could substitute potassium chloride (KCl).

The calculations for this are in <"Will APFUK starter kit suite....">.

cheers Darrel
 
Is it not possible that having large amounts of nitrogen does not mean that plant are able to utilise it without the addition of other nutrient? For example, you might have a nitrogen deficiency not because you are lacking the nitrogen ion, but because there isn’t enough potassium (example) for the plant to utilise the nitrogen?

nutrient synergy of some sort.

Regards
CJ
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all,

The 24 ppm NO3 will be the minimum value that they recorded.

Because you live in the SE of England (where you've had a large population for a long time) you have a considerable input from treated waste water, and even the aquifers will contain high levels of nitrate. The same would apply to phosphate (PO4---) in surface water, but because you live in a hard water area much of that PO4--- will have precipitated out of the water column as calcium phosphate.

Your water company isn't obliged to report levels of potassium (K) or phosphorus (P), so we don't have values for them in the tap water. If you did want to test your water for them with a test kit, potassium is problematic (due to the solubility of group one metals) but the <"JBL sensitive phosphate kit"> would give you a ball park figure.

I'd leave potassium nitrate (KNO3) out of your mix and see what happens. If you only want to change the NO3 level, and leave everything else the same, you could substitute potassium chloride (KCl).

The calculations for this are in <"Will APFUK starter kit suite....">.

cheers Darrel
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Thanks that makes sense. I'm due to make a new mix soon so i'll leave KNO3 out and substitute the K with more K2SO4. Will report back if it helps at all, will he interesting.

alto said:
How much light for how long? Is sunlight “hitting tank” or “just in the room”
🙂
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At the moment about 4 hours before the photoperiod. Not much direct light is hitting the tank but the room is bright compared to before, also the weather is starting to improve so will get better natural light.
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all,

Perfect, in that case you need to substitute 8.6 g of K2SO4 for 10 g of KNO3.

cheers Darrel
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Cut out KNO3 out my mix, it's been 3 weeks and hasn't made any difference to the rotala. Still pale the first half of photoperiod and then colour up the second half. Took a closer photo to illustrate the "problem" further.

I've decided it definitely isn't NO3 and It can't be FE as the lower leaves are all orange and green, even they get more vibrant. The tips are also pale regardless of how short or tall they are so doesn't fit FE deficiency as the lower leaves are good. Also can't be FE because the colour change happens over the same photoperiod.

If it is nutrient related, not neccessarily a deficiency, then the only other things i can think of is MN and PO4.

4.30pm
IMG_20210318_154619.jpg

9.00pm
IMG_20210318_210350.jpg
 
That’s a pretty stark contrast!

It’s worth a shot upping the Mn or PO4, I’d test one at a time though, a single dose should show at least some noticeable change fairly rapidly if either of these are to blame. Can’t remember if you’ve tried upping the Zinc, something else to consider.

Super interesting and no definitive answers yet! The plant is most definitely effluxing overnight the compounds it produces that provide colour to the top leaves accumulated during the photoperiod.

I am wondering if the plant could be choosing to do this not as response to moderating the increasing PAR as it grows closer to the light source (it is producing compounds to deal with this energy hitting the leaves) but in an effort to increase light transmission to the lower more mature shaded leaves further down the stem as it grows taller?

I’d trim a top and plant it further from the light source and see if it changes behaviour.

🙂
 
X3NiTH said:
That’s a pretty stark contrast!

It’s worth a shot upping the Mn or PO4, I’d test one at a time though, a single dose should show at least some noticeable change fairly rapidly if either of these are to blame. Can’t remember if you’ve tried upping the Zinc, something else to consider.

Super interesting and no definitive answers yet! The plant is most definitely effluxing overnight the compounds it produces that provide colour to the top leaves accumulated during the photoperiod.

I am wondering if the plant could be choosing to do this not as response to moderating the increasing PAR as it grows closer to the light source (it is producing compounds to deal with this energy hitting the leaves) but in an effort to increase light transmission to the lower more mature shaded leaves further down the stem as it grows taller?

I’d trim a top and plant it further from the light source and see if it changes behaviour.

🙂
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I have trimmed the rotala all the way down and replanted them many times, my scape is 14 months old now. The pale tips remain no matter how tall they are or how far away from the light they are, which is even more confusing.

I have tried increasing my micros which would increase my MN and ZN with no effect. I have also double dosed PO4 for 2 months which had no effect on the problem. I have also tried dosing double MG.

I recently loaded the substrate up with FE only root tabs and easy life general root tabs 2 weeks ago which hasn't made a difference.

The rotala look colourful when the lights are ramping up, then when the lights reach 100% they seem to be pale for half the photoperiod. Every hour they get a little bit more colourful and they become fully coloured up after about 4 hours.

It's really stumped me, especially considering lots of people use the same light, they have similar water parameters and similar plants without this "problem".
 
Hi all,
X3NiTH said:
Super interesting and no definitive answers yet!
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Sammy Islam said:
....... Cut out KNO3 out my mix, it's been 3 weeks and hasn't made any difference to the rotala. Still pale the first half of photoperiod and then colour up the second half. Took a closer photo to illustrate the "problem" further.
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Definitely true, I'm really interested as well. I wonder if we will ever get to the bottom of this one.

cheers Darrel
 
If there is any way you can make a time lapse video through night to day and back to night again over a minute or so to show the full display would be amazing, I think it would blow everyone’s mind! I know it would mine!

Discounting nutrient issues this feels like a light burn effect without tissue destruction, Chlorophyl and Caretenoids present in the morning, huge oxygen spike in the tissues as the light ramps then the caretenoids (and others) scavenge as much of the oxygen produced which then can’t keep up and the chlorophyl keeps producing excess oxygen so it gets flushed from the leaves to protect them, the caretenoids and chlorophyl only reappear again when the lights dim, overnight chlorophyl and caretenoids build up so the tissue looks almost at full health. Whatever the cause it appears the plant is able cope with this because despite the bleaching the tissues look in very good health.

🙂
 
X3NiTH said:
If there is any way you can make a time lapse video through night to day and back to night again over a minute or so to show the full display would be amazing, I think it would blow everyone’s mind! I know it would mine!

Discounting nutrient issues this feels like a light burn effect without tissue destruction, Chlorophyl and Caretenoids present in the morning, huge oxygen spike in the tissues as the light ramps then the caretenoids (and others) scavenge as much of the oxygen produced which then can’t keep up and the chlorophyl keeps producing excess oxygen so it gets flushed from the leaves to protect them, the caretenoids and chlorophyl only reappear again when the lights dim, overnight chlorophyl and caretenoids build up so the tissue looks almost at full health. Whatever the cause it appears the plant is able cope with this because despite the bleaching the tissues look in very good health.

🙂
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That's a great idea, i don't have a gopro but i'm sure one of my mates will. I shall ask around and get on the case! 👍
 
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