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Rotala / Amannia Bonsai (Melt)

Paulo Soares said:
And do you ever really expect a shop to tell the truth? Spare me..
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as my friend owns the shop & is a very truthful person & has no reason to lie ...
there is also a local forum & club & no discussions/complaints of Rotala "Bonsai" being the "plant that melts"

What people used to do when somethings wrong with a plant?
Garbage... and buy another different.
There you have statistics..
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I don't understand your context/meaning here ...but I will certainly spare you any future commentary from me.
 
viktorlantos said:
Only ug hates us 😉 or the soils.
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Offtopic: Funny 😀 I made an aquarium at Aquaeden and the whole UG carpet just melted. A friend of mine used it on a new aquarium and it all melted. Now i'm trying to melt a 1-2-grow cup on my new setup 😛 This more of a pride issue.... :banghead: (difference: it's "planted" on rock, not soil).

Pedro.
 
I have a question for Paulo. How is your aeration at night.?If this is low then you can have the same symptoms as with low co2. Plants need to breath at night. You need to add alot of O2 at night just like you add a lot of co2 in the day.
 
Evening Jose,
Pretty good aeration. Believe me. As for all other parameters specially the Co2.
We´re all on this passion for time enough to have the basics in order.

I never had any kind of melt besides this amannia as it is. I feel sorry but i can´t do much more. I put Staurogyne in the same place where it was Amannia and there she is growing pretty nice.

This friend below is having melt with HM. In my tank grows fast as hell and beautifully. One more case of melting.

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/hemianthus-micranthemoides-melting.36139/#post-388087

As for Mr. Alto i repeat what i´ve said in another thread:
By no means i ever get upset with anyone here. I know this is a passion of us. And sometimes passions do include more than nice words.
It´s up to us to get a well understanding of what is being writen and not a diagonal reading or with a blanked eye.
The "Spare me" is an epxression we use here in Portugal and it is a funny one. Not anything else.

As for stores and their behaviour of course i speak about my reallity: Portugal!
And yes i do have a lot of complains as for many many other friends cause when i started in this hobby a few years ago, i was literally deceived by some of these sotres. And i still see that behaviour today. Everyday! Everyday you see people in foruns having serious issues with their tanks cause they are not well advised by some stores. And they do know what they are doing...

I give you an example: If a kid or novice,"freshman" enter a store and say that he needs an external filter for 120 liter tank, and the guy in the store says that for that amount of water he will need a 1200 liter filter that costs 250€, probably the kid give up.. and a fair person should stick to what´s best advice and do a proper service to costumer.
But here happens something like this: "OK with that 1200 liter filter would be the perfect, but with this of 750 or 900 liter that costs 150€ you´ll have a real good filtration also, take this one that you wont regret"

And what happens next? A couple of days after you have one more guy in a forum looking for answers.. shame on them!
The guy acts like this: If i can´t earn 250€ at list im gonna earn 150€.. end of question!

Tropica: I´m not blaming Tropica brand it self. Of course our tanks are the essential key.
I intend to say that we all should deliver this issue to them. Gracious Claim! And they should show more attention to it. And i don´t see that happening

We aquarists are the ones who´s dealing with this by ourselves and trying to find a solution. They are the producers. They should know what is hapenning and be a part of the solution! Is that asking to much?
At list show more care. They could request all information they need to us, gathered information, see if there´s a common issue between all cases, see the collection point of the plants, country or lab etc etc. .

I work in the Automobile Industry. And one of my principal delegations is precisely like this.
If more than a client claims about something in the same car/model/year etc etc.., i do expertise testing, disassembling an intire car if need so, or plus, to find a common point of the cause that is being claimed.

We live in a global world where information runs at a nano fraction and the companies must pay good attention of whats being surrounding their products.

Best compliments to all.
 
There is another option, Paulo. But it would probably be too much hassle for you. Im talking about injecting CO2 into the water in the form of micro bubbles instead of dissolving it all in the water. Youd need to get an atomizer. This is obviously up to you.
There is a bit of evidence to support co2 mist as a more eficient way of co2 injection. You can read about it at thebarrreport.com.
 
Hi Jose 🙂

An Atomizer or Reactor is something that cross my mind a quite time ago and i also thought to achieve a powerful filter too.

But believe me.. i have really good CO2. Is very well dissolved. I don´t even need to open it a couple of hours before lights. One hour is more than enough cause of the excelent water circulation even really right next to substrate! An hour after lights up the drop is almost yellow, wich means (regarding the readings delay of the drop) that as soon the lights up my CO2 is very well up to 30PPM or higher.
All this was achieved by doing experimental positioning of the water pump and the filter outflow and of course a few changes i´ve done in my Eheim 🙂

As soon my waterflow increased by this changes i also have to close more the CO2 valve cause dissolution was so much better and higher. Right now my counter bubble is on 4 bps.

I did this changes since last november when i read some Clive´s Articles about Waterflow and Co2.
If not even before this changes i never had algae or other issues, since then the tank is on cruise control 🙂

The only change i made last week was the light. I put it upwards. Right now is about 46 cm until the substrate. Cause i was pushing to fast.. too much light and the plants couldn´t follow according to their nutrients rates capabilit and started to have some transparency. I´m well over the ideal PAR. 🙂

But as i have excelent waterflow and Co2 the thing is under control.

Big Hug
 
Hi Paulo,

I planted the same plant a couple of weeks ago on my tank but from a different brand (hortilab). I had the exact same problem with a big proportion of it and have already thrown away probably the equivalent of 2 pots. However some of the stems seem to be doing absolutely fine (time will tell) even if only separated from the ones melting by a couple of centimetres. If I had to guess I would probably blame on too much handling as these plants kept floating and needed to be replanted and difficulties in placing it on the substrate. I think it probably does not like to be grown with the stems to buried but hard to say. So it is definitely not a Tropica problem.

I have ordered another pot from the same company and will try and float it on the top of the tank as people suggested here. Do you just open the pot and leave it or does it need any fertilizer?
 
Just a short info, to conclude on this:
- I have - because of this thread - re-tested ALL 1-2-Grow! plants (exept mosses, to be honest), including in aqua-soil based tank.
Test showed absolutely no difference from former tests.
All plants grow perfectly well in soil, some even better than in substrate covered with fine gravel (Utricularia gramminifolia f.ex.)
Conclusion: problems with melt of Rotala 'bonzai' does not arise from plant material - cause of this must be found elsewhere.

I hope this info is acceptable to admin.s, since it is "specific factual" amd of common interest :bookworm: .
 
Mick.Dk said:
Just a short info, to conclude on this:
- I have - because of this thread - re-tested ALL 1-2-Grow! plants (exept mosses, to be honest), including in aqua-soil based tank.
Test showed absolutely no difference from former tests.
All plants grow perfectly well in soil, some even better than in substrate covered with fine gravel (Utricularia gramminifolia f.ex.)
Conclusion: problems with melt of Rotala 'bonzai' does not arise from plant material - cause of this must be found elsewhere.

I hope this info is acceptable to admin.s, since it is "specific factual" amd of common interest :bookworm: .
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Thank you for the update. It is as I expected anyway I am blaming myself not the plants and as mentioned other brands suffered the same faith so definitely nothing to do with Tropica stock.
 
Most web shops state Rotala A. Bonsai can grow under moderate light. No idea what they specificaly mean with that. I had some issues with this plant as well under wath i thought was moderate light ( 2x 1500 lum 8000k). Leggy growth, melting leaves and stems, growing roots above the substrate (looked like an ugly mangrove forest 🙂 ) and only growing side shoots near the surface. I uped the light to (2x 2300 lum 10000k extra) above 30 cm depht.. And all problems gone. Not leggy, less fast to the surface and roots stay in the substrate even new growth comes from the substrate.

I guess the plant desides what is moderate and what not. It's a light buster.. 🙂
 
zozo said:
It's a light buster.. 🙂
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Except it's not 😉 - I've planted tiny 1,2-Grow stems in deep shade, experienced no melt, slow steady compact growth, smaller leafs than stems that are receiving better light/CO2 ...

I suspect the melt is related to handling after plants leave the nursery (shipping, distributors, shops)
I had 2 pots from shipment A melt but for a dozen or so stems, then shipment B pots have almost no melt, even the extra stems that have been floating in a Spec 19 with no CO2 & erratic light periods (or even ambient only for a 1-3 days at a time) are still intact ... not much growth, I meant to plant them somewhere but then forgot 😳
 
In my case the handling and shipment was indeed a disaster 🙂 they where almost 14 days on the road or hanging around at unknown places. I got them invitro, so in this state they are somewhat better protected. The 14 days darknes was not realy good for them i guess, dunno. I did start them dry for a few weeks with no problems but after the fill i had a major meltdown. Took a few weeks to get over that. Once they where over that, they shot like a rocket to the surface straight away a few cm emersed. Very leggy at the bottom and some more dense to surface branching out like crazy. Was no fun and no cutting into. Growing roots from the stem few cm from the substrate down.. Some stems even melted away at the substrate and where held down only by the roots. Lot of melting leaves at the first 10 cm of the plant

That's all i can tell, i gave them more light and they start to behave as described by the seller, in over 4 weeks not yet growen bigger then around 15 to 20 cm. Instead of branching i get new shoots from the substrate via runners, No more melting stems and no more melting leaves.

could be it's a family thing and different nurseries grow different kinds with different properties. And create a puzzling mistery with it as it seems.
In time i did so many trimming there is none of the initial stems left. So it might be i did cut all bad ones out. But for the branch i got it all went up hill after giving them more light.. 🙂
 
Hi
lf this plant is grown to a least 100mm emersed it has a far greater chance of underwater transformation because it has more carbon and and energy stored...so it's less likely to fail.
This little plant needs open space and decent lighting...although the lights don't need to be on for long periods of time 4 to 5 hours is suffient.
This is just my opinion...hoggie
 
Mick.Dk said:
Just a short info, to conclude on this:
- I have - because of this thread - re-tested ALL 1-2-Grow! plants (exept mosses, to be honest), including in aqua-soil based tank.
Test showed absolutely no difference from former tests.
All plants grow perfectly well in soil, some even better than in substrate covered with fine gravel (Utricularia gramminifolia f.ex.)
Conclusion: problems with melt of Rotala 'bonzai' does not arise from plant material - cause of this must be found elsewhere.

I hope this info is acceptable to admin.s, since it is "specific factual" amd of common interest :bookworm: .
Click to expand...

Do you think that this could be a transport problem. Perhaps you could keep it in the dark for a few days shake it around a bit then see if it still performs/grows the same as it should
 
Sorry, if this sounds rude..........but do you really think that is not a standard procedure......??😉

I do this to all plants tested; transport simulation.
It is the exact reason Tropica does not stock Najas and Blyxa species.....they do not pass transport simulation ( and not transport REAL LIFE, either :thumbdown: )
 
Hi all

I posted in this thread and another related one, as I did have melting problems with that plant. But now I have tried it again in my new setup, and it's doing great... No melting after 6 weeks and very nice growing.
In my case I'm pretty sure the plant was not in its best condition at the shop. It also happened to me with MonteCarlo which I've grown previously without any problem, but in my new setup I purchased a tissue pot that was not in its best condition... Why I did it? You know, you are going to plant your tank, you want all the plants at the same time and even you perfectly know that the plant has been in the shop too much time (overgrown and gel a bit brown), you think "hey, I will plant it and it will recover". As I said in my post I won't blame Tropica or whatever brand if I am still far away from growing successfully some species or if I am so silly to buy plants that I know are not n good conditions.

Jordi
 
parotet said:
if I am so silly to buy plants that I know are not n good conditions.
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it would be nice though if the shop offered a discount or added in something extra 🙂

I suspect that if we'd the patience to transfer the in vitro plant to an emerse set up, plant recovery might be more consistent
(sadly I've poor impulse control 😉 )
 
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