Restructuring a Problem Tank

[Andrew Butler]

If one does not exist then some tips on how to construct one would be much appreciated. Word of warning... Not very DIY literate!

Karl can and has given you some good tips and I'm sure I could too.
I'm not sure whether you can fit normal hose to the FX4 or where you can pipes can enter into the aquarium but if you need any further help then ask away.

 

[Zeus.]

Used
25mm PVC BRAIDED HOSE which fitted fine to the hose connectors which connect to the FX6 canister filter and the 25mm to 3/4 Inch THREADED CONNECTOR
However getting a 90degree bend on that hose would definatly be harder than the ribbed fluval hose as the braided hose themselves to kink a bit in tight bends. Think the fluvial ribbed hose is better for tight bends IMO
Will test both as have spare of each

 

[Zeus.]

So 25mm braided hose was hardest to hold in position would kink quite a bit if close to wall. The fluval hose fitted nicely with the fluval connector to the 25mm PVC with about a four inch drop from top of tank !!! I didn't put the tank connector bracket straight as it fit better having it at a tilt
the swept bend would fit but at best an 8 inch drop even a tight 90 degree bend isn't much better

 

[Tom Raffield]

Thanks for the photos Zeus.

Looking at that it looks like my best bet might be the Fluval hose? Simplest to do and least depth in the tank. I assume 4 inches down would be ok. I've got all the items you mentioned lined up in my online basket ready to go. Do you think I should crack on or give my ferts a a few weeks to take hold and monitor the difference.

As an update, I did my usual water change this week and did my usual shudder at the state of some of the plants! Nevertheless I have now upped my dosing to the full recommended EI levels. That is to say 10ml per 50l which works out at 50ml of macro then micro on alternate days. The mix I use is from Aquarium Plant Food so I hope I won't be overdosing anything with the increase in ferts.

I also added an extra drop checker into my tank to see if the CO2 distribution was equal. Both ran the same colours at the same times which is positive. The only area of the tank I can't measure is the centre due to the curve of the glass.

 

[Zeus.]

Looking at that it looks like my best bet might be the Fluval hose? Simplest to do and least depth in the tank. I assume 4 inches down would be ok. I've got all the items you mentioned lined up in my online basket ready to go. Do you think I should crack on or give my ferts a a few weeks to take hold and monitor the difference.

I think the fluval tubing and 25mm PVC tubing direct without the PVC bends etc would be the best and cheapest option, as to 4 inches down is too deep,or not its a judgement call, but the holes in the spraybar can always be aimed upwards slightly which would create a gyre effect also. So I would get two 1m lengths of 25mm tubing (or more as handy to have a few to try different number and size of holes) and one 25mm end cap plus some clips to attach to tank.

I would crack on as having good flow/distribution is key to high tech tank. My 500 tank is flow limited ATM IMO but waiting release of new powerheads which should resolve this. But its your call on whether to wait or not.

Worth checking you LFS Garden centre esp if they do garden ponds as they might stock the tubing as one of my local ones does have a limited stock of it which would save on postage , as four 25mmx1m plus end cap works out at £6.50 plus £8.00 p&p

I did my usual water change this week and did my usual shudder at the state of some of the plants! Nevertheless I have now upped my dosing to the full recommended EI levels. That is to say 10ml per 50l which works out at 50ml of macro then micro on alternate days. The mix I use is from Aquarium Plant Food so I hope I won't be overdosing anything with the increase in ferts.

Takes four to six weeks to see any change, but STD EI dosing will do no harm esp if doing weekly 50% WC better to have ferts in excess than shortage get plants healthy then cut back or get cheaper DIY salts

 

[Andrew Butler]

the swept bend would fit but at best an 8 inch drop even a tight 90 degree bend isn't much better

Why not connect the pipe behind the aquarium and use 90's to come up and over the top of the rim?
I've used normal 90's and these have no effect on the flow of my filter. These also mean I can get the spraybar up as close to 45mm from the top of the rim to the centre of the spraybar..

would making one as wide actually work?

I also use tee's at the centre of my spraybar and distribute the flow either way which I think works better.

 

[Zeus.]

Why not connect the pipe behind the aquarium and use 90's to come up and over the top of the rim?

Tight bends leads to loss of laminar flow so turbulence results in increase resistance so drop in flow rate. Yes you can oversize the pipework which helps and use swept bends But 90 degree tight bends or 'T' peices are best to avoid 'if' you can.

Your solution Andrew looks very tidy, but the cheaper solution would give better flow IMO.

 

[Andrew Butler]

Tight bends leads to loss of laminar flow so turbulence results in increase resistance so drop in flow rate.

Of course, I'm not trying to argue that they don't but my Fluval G6 will still push through the same amount of water as if it was using their supplied fittings believe it or not.
Not to say that's the case for every filter though.

 

[Tom Raffield]

I have had a play around at the back of my tank and the only location I can place the tubing is on the far left of the tank where there is an indent in the tank edge. I could place the tubing in the middle with a T-joint but would also then have black tubing sticking up and out, as well as clearly visible behind the glass, which wouldn't look too good.

Since adding the new 50ml of ferts a week ago I can't report too much change (and wouldn't really expect to). Having said that the hygrophila polysperma has shot up. The older growth and stems are still of course not good but for now I don't mind what the plants look like until I get everything else sorted. The dual drop checkers are still the same colours at the same time which is a green colour at lights on and a more yellow colour for the majority of the lighting period.

Looking through my maintenance log, my current iQuatics T5s will be a year old in July/August. In the past when I started my tank I used Juwel tubes (Day and Nature). Is there any argument for returning to Juwel tubes? The cost is largely the same from what I have seen. I also have reflectors which are not in the tank. Would reintroducing them have any benefit considering the large increase in ferts or should I be keeping light low for the time being.

 

[ian_m]

Looking through my maintenance log, my current iQuatics T5s will be a year old in July/August

Why does this matter, many, many years life left then, good news. Most quality T5 tubes will be at least 5 years before lumens drops to 90% of initial value and even after that should be fine for a long time.

See here for picture of 30month and 6 month T5 Juwel daylight tubes.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/juwel-t5-bulb-type-help.52873/#post-521671

Is there any argument for returning to Juwel tubes?

I have used both Juwel and Arcadia T5 tubes and colour and light output is similar for same tube types. eg Juwel HiLite Day and Acadia Tropical Pro.

I also have reflectors which are not in the tank. Would reintroducing them have any benefit considering the large increase in ferts or should I be keeping light low for the time being.

Adding reflectors will effectively double the light output in the tank, thus you need to ensure your ferts dosing is correct and more importantly you CO2 levels and distribution is spot on. I run 4 T5 tubes with reflectors on my Juwel Vision 180 and is mostly algae free, but have spent ages and ages getting CO2 levels and distribution spot on. I run 2 tubes for 17:00 to 17:30, 4 tubes 17:30 to 22:30 and 2 tubes 22:30 to 23:00, so 2 tubes 6 hours and 4 tubes on 5 hours. Possibly better algae free plant growth starting light period with only 2 tubes (and less shocked fish).

 

[Tom Raffield]

Thanks Ian, I have always read that tubes need replacing every 12 months. I guess that just keeps the manufacturers tills ticking over. I won't bother for now then.

I am getting hold of the piping and bits for the spray bar at the moment and will take the plunge with the construction and fitting soon.

We are into Week 3 of the 50ml ferts and growth has accelerated on the hygrophilia. There is also some nice new red/purple leaves growing on the large plant on the back right. I guess I need to remove any of the poorer leaves to really see a difference but at this point that would not leave me with many plants! On the flip side, there is now quite a lot of green algae across the back of the tank. Its not spot algae but more 'sheet' like. Nothing on the front glass though.

This got me thinking about the actual mix of ferts suggested on the Aquarium Plant Food packs - is it actually a sensible mix? I double my amounts as I mix into a 1L solution. 12tsp magnesium sulphate does sound a lot! What do you guys think?

Macro Solution

• 4tsp Potassium Nitrate
• 1tsp Potassium Phosphate
• 6tsp Magnesium Sulphate
• 500ml Water

Micro Solution

• 1tsp Chelated Trace Elements
• 500ml Water

 

[Andrew Butler]

I could place the tubing in the middle with a T-joint but would also then have black tubing sticking up and out, as well as clearly visible behind the glass, which wouldn't look too good.

I wasn't sure where you could get pipes neatly into the tank. I have put black vinyl on the back of mine to hide everything but that's down to personal choice.

I am getting hold of the piping and bits for the spray bar at the moment and will take the plunge with the construction and fitting soon.

What have you opted to go for then? I'm always interested to hear how other people approach these things and how they turn out.

This got me thinking about the actual mix of ferts suggested on the Aquarium Plant Food packs - is it actually a sensible mix? I double my amounts as I mix into a 1L solution. 12tsp magnesium sulphate does sound a lot! What do you guys think?

I've used the amounts suggested by aquarium plant food and it all dissolved absolutely fine; I emailed them about making it more concentrated but never got a reply - if anyone has an opinion here I'm interested.

I have always read that tubes need replacing every 12 months

I think this is more with marines where the corals rely on the tubes being in top condition.

 

[Zeus.]

Aquarium Plant Food packs - is it actually a sensible mix? I double my amounts as I mix into a 1L solution. 12tsp magnesium sulphate does sound a lot! What do you guys think?

Sounds about right to me. I have been sing TNC calculators to work my mixes out and for making 4l stock solution dosing 100ml x3 week to yield a 10ppm weekly dose of Mg I need to add 650grams of MgSO4

 

[Tom Raffield]

What have you opted to go for then? I'm always interested to hear how other people approach these things and how they turn out

I'm going for Zeus' first option. Adding the piping to the existing Fluval hose and connectors. It looks the simplest and quickest method to construct a spray bar. It may well be nearly 4 inches down into the tank but I will twist the pipe and holes upwards slightly. Waiting for parts to arrive.

BAD NEWS!!
Just returned home from the pub and found one dead neon, two near dead cory's and a near dead pleco. All on their sides gasping for air. Checked the drop checker and it is more yellow than I have ever seen. My pressure gauge is also showing near zero (I knew it was almost empty) but strangely enough the pressure has shot from just under 2 bar to almost 2.5 bar! I have poisoned the fish?! Stupid thing is I suspected I may have been adding too much CO2 recently as when I checked my cylinder today (water change day) it was running very low and in less than 2 months! It was a 3.25kg cylinder! The corys have also been acting strangely for a while!
I have turned off all CO2 and adding some fresh water whilst hammering my koralia towards the surface to agitate the water. Surely this now points to a lack of circulation in the water as my ferts are definitely in excess and from the looks of tihngs so is my CO2.

 

[Zeus.]

sorry to hear the news

Sounds like an end of tank dump from a single stage regulator to me. Feel you pain m8 .

 

[Tom Raffield]

sorry to hear the news

Sounds like an end of tank dump from a single stage regulator to me. Feel you pain m8 .

Add to the potential casualty list another Amano! On his back, legs going - I have had some seriously bad luck with this tank. Cursed perhaps! Have to wait till morning and see what happens.

I'm not even sure my regulator is single stage?! Can you check the photo for me? I will admit that I did tamper with it to increase pressure a while ago and in doing so did 'explode' a spring and part of the mechanism underneath. I did manage to put this back but I guess there could be an issue there, or perhaps a leak hence the quick use of an entire cylinder. They usually last me 3/4 months minimum.

So do I spend out on a new regulator before I attach a new cylinder, or try and reduce the working pressure on my current one back to 1.5 bar. Is it worth risking this regulator again? How much is a suitable replacement? My CO2 replacements are £36 delivered. I've just spent £100 today on 4L of Excel Flourish, 1L of Aqua Safe and a pH tester kit! My tank is eating my money and thats before I even consider restocking the inhabitants or replacing plants. Grrrr!

 

[alto]

Replace the regulator - this is not really an optional spend (IMO) - unless you can remove livestock
You could check into having it rebuilt/repaired but the would leave you without CO2

As for when to replace fluorescent tubes ... this has to do with the phosphors used to generate the spectra which the manufacturer states for the particular tube (blend): these degrade at different rates, the human eye is NOT an analytical detector of spectra
Annual replacement (based upon hours of use) is suggested for these reasons
I've seldom replaced my T5's annually but try to do so at ~2yr - my plants do notice

 

[X3NiTH]

Sorry for your losses, single stage apparently.

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/does-anyone-own-a-jbl-m001-regulator.32366/

Your choices are -

1. Keep an eye on the cylinder pressure and replace before EOTD (waste of gas but better than dead fish).

2. Replace single stage regulator with a dual stage regulator.

3. Use a pH controller and set it to switch off just beyond where your current injection volume maximum levels are.

4. No supplemental CO₂.

Either of these four things will prevent EOTD casualties.

Option 1 is not fail safe (subject to life gets in the way sometimes - likely)
Option 2 is near fail safe (subject to user error or material degradation - less likely)
Option 3 is near fail safe (subject to user error or material degradation - likely user error - likely pH probe lifespan (can be mitigated through readjusting controller to new profile even if the pH reading is inaccurate compared to titration testing)
Option 4 is a lot tougher than its made out to be if targeting fussy plants.

There's always the belts and braces which is a combination of Option 2 and Option 3 (not 100% safe as belts and braces are still vulnerable to user error and material degredation).

Read enough about EOTD to never want one, it's not easy keeping the plants happy and not killing the fish with added CO₂, it's all about a happy equilibrium and it can be a tough road to walk.

 

[Tom Raffield]

Good news. Having checked the tank thoroughly I appear only to have lost the neon and possibly the amano. The corys and the plec appear to be heading back to normal after the partial gassing! My CO2 is now fully depleted and I will be waiting till Wednesday for the new one. Should I add more Excel to counter the loss of CO2 or just go lights off and stop ferts for a few days? Not sure of the best case of action whilst waiting for what I am ordering.

I'm in the process of finalising the orders:

Have opted for a new dual stage regulator from CO2 Art: PRO-SE Series - Aquarium CO2 Dual Stage Regulator with Integrated Solenoid.
Going for 3 x 25mm black piping, the 25mm end cap, the threaded connector and hose adaptor (not sure I need all this to pull of Zeus' first build option above but am getting it just in case).
4 suction cups and clips for 24mm tubing. The 1mm difference should be ok? https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00X9IP6B8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AG4A6CPO0BVL1&psc=1

This lot, on top of yesterdays spending and the £40 for my new 3.5kg CO2 cylinder, has made this weekend quite an expensive one!

 

[Zeus.]

Wednesday for the new one. Should I add more Excel to counter the loss of CO2 or just go lights off and stop ferts for a few days? Not sure of the best case of action whilst waiting for what I am ordering.

In the same boat here as CO2 very low due to Hols. I did a double WC lights off, no ferts/LCO2. Cover tank so NO light. So blackout 'no peeking' When CO2 ready WC before CO2 then need to let plants adjust to CO2 again so turn light /photoperiod down