Thanks mate 👍🏻
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Remanso . . .
- Thread starter Wookii
- Start date
Thanks mate 👍🏻
I know I said this tank set-up was going to be a slow burner, but this is getting a bit daft now - I've had no time to spend on getting the tank set up through December and January, but finally got some spare time in the last couple of weeks.
So Trespa base/shelf has been added, which has allowed me to get the sump in place. Then I've added the Fiji overflow box, and set-up the Bean-animal overflow system, and plumbed it into the sump (easy as its only a 500mm drop). Then I've added a series of plastic containers to form the trickle filter (shamelessly plagiarised from @Geoffrey Rea) and house the X-Filter fleece roller.
The trickle filter basically consists of one larger container from which I've cut the bottom out and added an egg-crate grill - this houses the plastic media (Oase Hel-X) which sit on top of the crating in mesh bags. A shallower container from the same range is then used as the drip tray with hundreds of 3mm holes cut from it's base. Inside this sits a smaller container which houses the X-filter and maintains the water level around the fleece roller at the recommended 120mm for it to operate efficiently.
Finally I roughly set-up the Ecotech Vectra M1 pump and thought I'd better do a leak and system test before going any further. I have to admit it was a little nerve racking adding over half a tonne of water to a new untested tank and custom stand, and having never ran a sump before:
Thankfully the tank didn't burst open! Amazingly (for me!) not a single leak sprang, and the overflow system and trickle filter worked very well. I modified the bean animal overflow heights a little to reduce turbulence in the overflow box, and the system worked brilliantly when simulating line blockages. I suspect I may have slightly over-specified the pump - at full speed the tank was a jacuzzi, I suspect I'll be running it at 20% or less during normal operation.
Next I'll be onto the electrics and adding the rest of the kit, then the auto-water change set-up before I can finally move onto the fun bit of scaping and planting the tank!
So Trespa base/shelf has been added, which has allowed me to get the sump in place. Then I've added the Fiji overflow box, and set-up the Bean-animal overflow system, and plumbed it into the sump (easy as its only a 500mm drop). Then I've added a series of plastic containers to form the trickle filter (shamelessly plagiarised from @Geoffrey Rea) and house the X-Filter fleece roller.
The trickle filter basically consists of one larger container from which I've cut the bottom out and added an egg-crate grill - this houses the plastic media (Oase Hel-X) which sit on top of the crating in mesh bags. A shallower container from the same range is then used as the drip tray with hundreds of 3mm holes cut from it's base. Inside this sits a smaller container which houses the X-filter and maintains the water level around the fleece roller at the recommended 120mm for it to operate efficiently.
Finally I roughly set-up the Ecotech Vectra M1 pump and thought I'd better do a leak and system test before going any further. I have to admit it was a little nerve racking adding over half a tonne of water to a new untested tank and custom stand, and having never ran a sump before:
Thankfully the tank didn't burst open! Amazingly (for me!) not a single leak sprang, and the overflow system and trickle filter worked very well. I modified the bean animal overflow heights a little to reduce turbulence in the overflow box, and the system worked brilliantly when simulating line blockages. I suspect I may have slightly over-specified the pump - at full speed the tank was a jacuzzi, I suspect I'll be running it at 20% or less during normal operation.
Next I'll be onto the electrics and adding the rest of the kit, then the auto-water change set-up before I can finally move onto the fun bit of scaping and planting the tank!
Now now, lets not get hasty 😂
Looks like an awesome build.
Pleased you’ve managed to dedicate some time to moving things forward, one step closer to the good stuff!
Pleased you’ve managed to dedicate some time to moving things forward, one step closer to the good stuff!
A little bit about the bottom draw overflow weir . . .
I'm adding this post, as a lot of Google searching provided very little on this topic when I was hunting for it, and it may be useful to others down the line.
All of the standard sump systems usually incorporate an overflow weir with some sort of comb teeth weir that allows water to overflow from the surface of the display tank before heading onwards down into the sump. This has always bothered me a little as I've always preferred a filter to draw water from the substrate level so it can suck up ample detritus from the base of the tank and filter it out, which isn't possible if water is only being removed from the surface.
To start with I didn't think this was going to be possible, until I accidentally stumbled on this Tunze overflow weir with a bottom drawing inlet pipe:
It then struck me that it would actually be fairly easy to modify a standard overflow weir to allow drawing of water from the bottom of the tank by using the simple physics of it, and the pressure differences between the two inlet points. So I drilled out two holes in the base of the overflow box, and glued in a couple of coupling sockets to take 13mm pipe. This allows me to insert and remove lengths on 13mm pipe from the underside (for ease of maintenance):
So the basic premise is that as long as the opening at the top of the two inlet pipes (inside the weir box) sits below the usual water level, the difference in water height and pressure will force water into the base of the pipes and out of the top. The greater the level difference between the two, the greater the pressure difference and the more water will flow through the pipes versus going over the weir. The split between the proportion of water flowing through the pipes, and that flowing over the weir can be further regulated by adding small lengths of pipe into the sockets inside the weir box. The longer these are, and the therefore the smaller the difference in depth between the tank water level, and the top of the pipes, the more flow will preferentially flow over the weir:
So now I have an overflow weir, that draws a large proportion of the water from the base of the tank improving detritus removal, and aiding flow and distribution at the base of the tank, whilst still having some surface skimming via the weir. Problem solved!
I'm adding this post, as a lot of Google searching provided very little on this topic when I was hunting for it, and it may be useful to others down the line.
All of the standard sump systems usually incorporate an overflow weir with some sort of comb teeth weir that allows water to overflow from the surface of the display tank before heading onwards down into the sump. This has always bothered me a little as I've always preferred a filter to draw water from the substrate level so it can suck up ample detritus from the base of the tank and filter it out, which isn't possible if water is only being removed from the surface.
To start with I didn't think this was going to be possible, until I accidentally stumbled on this Tunze overflow weir with a bottom drawing inlet pipe:
It then struck me that it would actually be fairly easy to modify a standard overflow weir to allow drawing of water from the bottom of the tank by using the simple physics of it, and the pressure differences between the two inlet points. So I drilled out two holes in the base of the overflow box, and glued in a couple of coupling sockets to take 13mm pipe. This allows me to insert and remove lengths on 13mm pipe from the underside (for ease of maintenance):
So the basic premise is that as long as the opening at the top of the two inlet pipes (inside the weir box) sits below the usual water level, the difference in water height and pressure will force water into the base of the pipes and out of the top. The greater the level difference between the two, the greater the pressure difference and the more water will flow through the pipes versus going over the weir. The split between the proportion of water flowing through the pipes, and that flowing over the weir can be further regulated by adding small lengths of pipe into the sockets inside the weir box. The longer these are, and the therefore the smaller the difference in depth between the tank water level, and the top of the pipes, the more flow will preferentially flow over the weir:
So now I have an overflow weir, that draws a large proportion of the water from the base of the tank improving detritus removal, and aiding flow and distribution at the base of the tank, whilst still having some surface skimming via the weir. Problem solved!
Cheers Ady 👍
Great work Wookii,
I knew you was doing this but have not seen this journal before. Luckily I've discovered it before it's completely up and running as I am aiming to do something similar in the near-ish future although the automation will be lacking and the cabinet will be inferior by far.
Good luck with remainder of your project.
Following!
I knew you was doing this but have not seen this journal before. Luckily I've discovered it before it's completely up and running as I am aiming to do something similar in the near-ish future although the automation will be lacking and the cabinet will be inferior by far.
Good luck with remainder of your project.
Following!
Thanks Bazz 👍
PaulLB
Member
I am in awe. This is SpaceX starship compared to my firework rocket. I think you deserve an award for “best plumbing” regardless how your aquascaping turns out. Keen to see how this develops. Best wishes!
Thanks Paul - the system is actually quite simple, I'm just good at over-complicating it building in as much automation as possible 😂 As a pertinent example, I have a small seedling of an idea at the back of my mind for a little system to automatically clean the plastic media. 🤓
Looking forward to seeing that.
Getting there Bazz - time to spend on the tank is very sparse indeed, but the electrics are in, and the water change and ATO system is installed but not yet thoroughly tested.
I doubt I'll get much time on it this weekend as two of my kids are competing for the county in an Athletics competition, so that takes Saturday out almost completely, then two football matches and swimming on Sunday! I barely get time to take a . . . . ! 😅
I'll try and squeeze in some update photos on Sunday evening if I can!
I'm away on holiday at the start of April, so I want to get all the hardware installed and finished before then, so I can start 'scaping' (if my appalling efforts to create a reasonable looking habitat can be referred to as such) as soon as I get back. By the end of May I hope to be able to appease @Conort2 with a photo of at least a few fish in situ!
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OK, lets back up a bit. Firstly apologies to @bazz and anyone else waiting on an update. Things have just been a bit manic - life, and a holiday, got in the way. These recent back to back bank holidays have afforded me a bit of time to make more progress.
Auto Water Change System:
The auto-water change system is working well in testing - the Kamoer X2SR Pro peristaltic pump works really well, and easily hits its 900ml per minute quoted rate even when running through dual 1/4" tubing up and over the ceiling void with 3 metres of head height and a 12m run length. That means I can automatically change around 50 litres of water daily in just under an hour.
Below is theboiler fish room where I've mounted the RO unit above the water storage tanks - that filter unit is very heavy when full of water, so six 100mm screws into the brick were the order of the day! On the tanks, one tank is for the waste water, the other for the fresh RO water. The system is designed to ensure that the same amount of water is removed from the sump as is added to help maintain the sump water level, hence the two tanks. Although the Kamoer pump is designed to do this automatically on its own once both pumps are properly calibrated, the dual tank system provides a safety back up and eliminates the possibility of the pump accidentally draining the sump dry.
The fresh water is pure RO, and the Kamoer pumps this directly into the main pump inlet in the sump:
And waste water is extracted from the sump earlier in the flow path of the water.
My intention is to slow the main display pump during the water change hour to a speed that enough to pump all the RO pumped into the sump, up to the display tank, but slow enough that the fresh RO water doesn't end up being drawn back out the overflow at the other end of the display tank, as waste water.
The Ecotech Versa dosers will dose remin salts gradually into the pump inlet over the course of the hour long water change. I've chosen to do it this way and dose the remin salts directly to the sump rather than to the water tank in the boiler room for a couple of reasons. Firstly it means there is no risk of limescale or other mineral deposits in the 1/4" tubing in the walls for me to deal with, secondly I can run a split outlet for the RO at the sump side, and fill a passive ATO tank at each daily water change.
Once the water change is finished the waste water is then pumped out to a waste pipe/drain (later this - and the waste output from the RO unit - will be pumped into to a forthcoming garden irrigation tank for reuse in the garden).
Everything is set-up on TP Link Tapo timers, including three to control output and flushing valves on the RO unit, so everything from start to finish happens automatically at a pre-scheduled time. I'll likely do this fairly early morning before the CO2 kicks in. The fresh RO tank will be refilled immediately after to give 20-odd hours for the water to passively get up to a reasonable temperature as the boiler room remains fairly warm.
CO2 Loop:
I'm still in half a mind over whether I really need CO2, but I definitely get improved growth in the main plants I want to keep (crypts) with CO2, so I'll run with it for now.
One of the many advantages of the sump set-up, is I can have the CO2 diffusion on a separate loop with a separate pump. This enables me to mess around with the CO2 system to my hearts content without ever needing to changing anything on the main pump lines.
I could have simplified it further, and had just stuck couple of ceramic style diffusors next to the filter intake, but I fancied trying out the German JD Aquatec reactors given their neat form factor it fits nicely in the sump, and satisfies my OCD cupboard management! 😆
So this is my CO2 loop, combined with a tiny Eheim pump:
The reactor is unimaginably small, so it remains to be seen whether it will actually work or not, particularly with the potential off-gasing of the trickle filter - the proof will be in the testing I guess.
Substrate trays:
Something else I was in two minds on, was whether to have nutrient rich (or perhaps more accurately - high CEC) base layer beneath the sand. I know plants can uptake what they need from the water column, but I just can't help think that having a nutrient store that the roots can tap into when required can bring some additional longer term stability to the system, and at the end of the day couldn't think of any major downside from having it.
In the past I've tried several techniques to keep this sub-layer from migrating up into the sand on top, including a fine plastic mesh between the two, and separate mesh bags. Most are fine until you want to uproot and move or remove plants. When I did this with the plastic mesh previously, the crypts I removed were so deeply rooted they basically pulled the mesh up with it and wrecked the scape.
This time I wanted to make sure the sub-layer stayed put no matter the replanting changes, so I made up some dedicated stainless steel trays with removable mesh lids:
Three of these made them easy to get in the tank, and I could then fill them. I used a combination of some Eheim peat pellets (just pure peat), some old Tropica aquasoil (which as we know is nutrient loaded), and some Dennerle Shrimp King Complete soil (which is not nutrient loaded, and I suspect if largely just a peat based soil) - basically what I had left over and on hand - all high CEC stuff containing plenty of humic and fluvic acids. To that I added a few handfuls of inert crushed lava rock, mainly to try and add some structure to this layer, and try and reduce future compaction, and also to promote microbial colonisation.
I then added the mesh lids which have about 1mm openings. I then proceeded to clean out my two existing and in use Oase filters, washing the media, and squeezing the sponges in the water remaining inside the filter canister body - which hadn't been done in about 6 months - and collected the resulting microbial mulm soup in a bucket, before adding it the the trays. The intention here being to promote rapid seeding of the substrate with its microbial community.
Finished and ready for sand:
I then added the Hugo Kamashi Natural sand. I'm aware this is a little pricier than something like Unipac silver sand, but this sand fitted in with exactly what I wanted in a grain size sitting somewhere between silver sand and silica sand, but with a subtle mixture of grain colours and sizes. I also got a Black Friday bulk buy deal and free shipping, so the price per kilo wasn't significantly more than the Unipac in the end anyway.
I will eventually add some other cosmetic sand and fine gravel as decoration on top of this once the planting is done, but this is the blank canvas for me to 'scape' onto (I use the term very loosely given my atrocious lack of skills in this area):
Auto Water Change System:
The auto-water change system is working well in testing - the Kamoer X2SR Pro peristaltic pump works really well, and easily hits its 900ml per minute quoted rate even when running through dual 1/4" tubing up and over the ceiling void with 3 metres of head height and a 12m run length. That means I can automatically change around 50 litres of water daily in just under an hour.
Below is the
The fresh water is pure RO, and the Kamoer pumps this directly into the main pump inlet in the sump:
And waste water is extracted from the sump earlier in the flow path of the water.
My intention is to slow the main display pump during the water change hour to a speed that enough to pump all the RO pumped into the sump, up to the display tank, but slow enough that the fresh RO water doesn't end up being drawn back out the overflow at the other end of the display tank, as waste water.
The Ecotech Versa dosers will dose remin salts gradually into the pump inlet over the course of the hour long water change. I've chosen to do it this way and dose the remin salts directly to the sump rather than to the water tank in the boiler room for a couple of reasons. Firstly it means there is no risk of limescale or other mineral deposits in the 1/4" tubing in the walls for me to deal with, secondly I can run a split outlet for the RO at the sump side, and fill a passive ATO tank at each daily water change.
Once the water change is finished the waste water is then pumped out to a waste pipe/drain (later this - and the waste output from the RO unit - will be pumped into to a forthcoming garden irrigation tank for reuse in the garden).
Everything is set-up on TP Link Tapo timers, including three to control output and flushing valves on the RO unit, so everything from start to finish happens automatically at a pre-scheduled time. I'll likely do this fairly early morning before the CO2 kicks in. The fresh RO tank will be refilled immediately after to give 20-odd hours for the water to passively get up to a reasonable temperature as the boiler room remains fairly warm.
CO2 Loop:
I'm still in half a mind over whether I really need CO2, but I definitely get improved growth in the main plants I want to keep (crypts) with CO2, so I'll run with it for now.
One of the many advantages of the sump set-up, is I can have the CO2 diffusion on a separate loop with a separate pump. This enables me to mess around with the CO2 system to my hearts content without ever needing to changing anything on the main pump lines.
I could have simplified it further, and had just stuck couple of ceramic style diffusors next to the filter intake, but I fancied trying out the German JD Aquatec reactors given their neat form factor it fits nicely in the sump, and satisfies my OCD cupboard management! 😆
So this is my CO2 loop, combined with a tiny Eheim pump:
The reactor is unimaginably small, so it remains to be seen whether it will actually work or not, particularly with the potential off-gasing of the trickle filter - the proof will be in the testing I guess.
Substrate trays:
Something else I was in two minds on, was whether to have nutrient rich (or perhaps more accurately - high CEC) base layer beneath the sand. I know plants can uptake what they need from the water column, but I just can't help think that having a nutrient store that the roots can tap into when required can bring some additional longer term stability to the system, and at the end of the day couldn't think of any major downside from having it.
In the past I've tried several techniques to keep this sub-layer from migrating up into the sand on top, including a fine plastic mesh between the two, and separate mesh bags. Most are fine until you want to uproot and move or remove plants. When I did this with the plastic mesh previously, the crypts I removed were so deeply rooted they basically pulled the mesh up with it and wrecked the scape.
This time I wanted to make sure the sub-layer stayed put no matter the replanting changes, so I made up some dedicated stainless steel trays with removable mesh lids:
Three of these made them easy to get in the tank, and I could then fill them. I used a combination of some Eheim peat pellets (just pure peat), some old Tropica aquasoil (which as we know is nutrient loaded), and some Dennerle Shrimp King Complete soil (which is not nutrient loaded, and I suspect if largely just a peat based soil) - basically what I had left over and on hand - all high CEC stuff containing plenty of humic and fluvic acids. To that I added a few handfuls of inert crushed lava rock, mainly to try and add some structure to this layer, and try and reduce future compaction, and also to promote microbial colonisation.
I then added the mesh lids which have about 1mm openings. I then proceeded to clean out my two existing and in use Oase filters, washing the media, and squeezing the sponges in the water remaining inside the filter canister body - which hadn't been done in about 6 months - and collected the resulting microbial mulm soup in a bucket, before adding it the the trays. The intention here being to promote rapid seeding of the substrate with its microbial community.
Finished and ready for sand:
I then added the Hugo Kamashi Natural sand. I'm aware this is a little pricier than something like Unipac silver sand, but this sand fitted in with exactly what I wanted in a grain size sitting somewhere between silver sand and silica sand, but with a subtle mixture of grain colours and sizes. I also got a Black Friday bulk buy deal and free shipping, so the price per kilo wasn't significantly more than the Unipac in the end anyway.
I will eventually add some other cosmetic sand and fine gravel as decoration on top of this once the planting is done, but this is the blank canvas for me to 'scape' onto (I use the term very loosely given my atrocious lack of skills in this area):
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