Referb and restart after 30 years. Low tech.

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Its got a name the point at which plants stop growing because of lack of light, I just can't remember what it is. I bet Mr dw1305 can help this foggy brain remember what it is?

Lcp: Light Compensation Point ~ that's the name regarding plants stopping growing.

Yes, <"Light Compensation Point">. It is a really useful concept, but we don't have actual LCP values for the plants we grow.

We can make some educated guesses, plants with <"slow growth rates and dark green leaves"> (most Mosses, Anubias barteri, Bolbitis heudelotii) are likely to have very low LCP values and "turned up to eleven" plants like <"Victoria amazonica"> or <"Ludwigia sediodes"> high ones.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
There is a useful review article:
Pedersen O, Colmer, T. & Sand-Jensen, K. (2013) "Underwater Photosynthesis of Submerged Plants – Recent Advances and Methods" Frontiers in Plant Science 4 <"https://www.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpls.2013.00140">

cheers Darrel

 

[The grumpy one]

Day 161:

Can't believe it's been another week. Soon be Xmas.

My dimmer is one of those normal rotary house dimmers. Made a large Perspex (Perspex again!) disc with a hole in the middle. Worked out the throw angle of the potentiometer and divided the angle by 10. Used a scalpel to score lines to mark a scale of 0 to 10, with half marks as well. So now I can get a more comparative idea of how much light I am putting in the tank. I say comparative because dimming curves are different for different types of dimmers, manufacturers and the type of lamp. So you can not say if the amount of change of light between 6 and 7 is the same as between 5 and 6. I am deliberately not using % for that reason.

Sorry ramble over......

Wildlife:
All doing well. The Ramshorn snails are look quite wonderful. Their shells have taken on a very pleasant copper hue. I got concerned and did a copper test of the water. All is fine.

Lighting:
This week I ran the lights at 6 instead of 4. Did this just to see of there was a marked growth difference with more light. Looking at the pics I would say no difference? So close to confirming my standard light level.

Plants:
The only difference with increasing the light to 6 is an outbreak of Spirogyra. Next week lights at 5. Took ages picking out as much Spirogyra as I could find. Most of it was on the moss. Had to trim the HYDROCOTYLE LEUCOCEPHALA again. My that plant can grow. At least 1 new node on each stem per day.

Pics:

 

[The grumpy one]

Day 168:

Wildlife:
CRANGONYX: Have not seen one all week. How odd. I thought they were hardy as hell. Maybe all hiding in the filter.
LUMBRICULUS: The population has had a bit of an explosion. Maybe they are eating all the dead CRANGONYX.
BLADDER SNAILS: They are everywhere. They will insist in riding the Ramshorn's shells. Looks like they have become sentient and are breaking in the Ramshorn's. Maybe they have developed tools and have hunted the Crangnyx to extinction.
RAMSHORN SNAILS: Some of these have got really big. One is so big that it is having trouble getting it's shell upright.

Better stop there or you will all think that I have taken something. Also the Bladder snails might be reading this? BT turned up in the week and installed internet in the tank. Apparently it was ordered by a Mr B L Adder.

Plants:
Very stable growth.
This week you can see a bit of growth in the top shoots of the ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI.

Pics:

 

[The grumpy one]

Day 175:

I am having an outbreak of Thread algae, looks like Spirogyra. Very long pea green threads growing from the tips of leaves.
I checked for a ammonia spike, which was zero.
Turned the lights down from 5 to 4.5 of 10 and used the fork end of my Perspex fork spade and gently twirled it like it was spaghetti, very easy to get out this way.
There was some today, but not much and not so long, easily removed with the spaghetti method.

Wildlife:
CRANGONYX: Saw one the other night, just before I went to bed (Well after lights out), when I checked the tank with a torch.

Fish:
As my tank is only 30l (5 gal) with a 5l internal filter, I can only keep shrimp or small solitary fish like Least Killifish.
I would love a small shoal of small south American fish, but there are none small enough who would thrive in my small tank. When I have some free time, I must start planning my100+l tank.

I will stop this thread when I get to day 365. Or if I miss a day. So you must all hope I miss a day

Pics:

 

[The grumpy one]

Day 182

Still got thread algae. Not to bad, comes out easily enough.
Had to give the substrate a jolly good clean today. Snail poo build up. At least it, mostly, settles in that gap at the front in the sand. That was the idea during the design phase. Somewhere with low flow for the detritus to settle out.
Washed all the filter sponges in old tank water. The water was quite brown after. I know you should not wash all the sponges at once, but I do have other filter media in there to stop total devastation of bacteria life.

Plants:
ECHINODORUS 'AQUARTICA': My this has got big. Looked at the first pic of this and it looked lost in the sea of substrate.
HYDROCOTYLE LEUCOCEPHALA: Yep, I can confirm this grows fast even without CO₂. It had grown right over the top of the filter this week. I have put all the stems over the glass brace that goes from back to front on the filter side. Hopefully this will stop it constantly shading out everything else.
HELANTHIUM BOLIVIANUM: This has really established itself. I am pruning any runners that head away from that corner and letting the rest do there thing. There are in excess of 8 plants now.
VESICULARIA MONTAGNEI?: This moss is now very attached to the stones I tied it to. Keep finding patches starting to grow in other places, which I remove or I think it would take over,
ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI: Yep this is a very slow growing plant, It was a Tissue culture and I understand that these can take a far time to establish a good root system. There is growth, but only about 1 leaf a week on some of the stems.

Pics:

 

[The grumpy one]

Day 189:

Fighting the thread algae. Today turned down the lights to 4 of 10. This is my light compensation point, so I will have to check that the plants are still growing during the week. Lucky that the HYDROCOTYLE LEUCOCEPHALA grows so quickly. I am going to make yet another acrylic tool to make it easier to remove the pesky thread algae. At least I have not had any other breakouts of algae, Just luck I suppose.

Pics:

 

[The grumpy one]

Day 196:

Still fighting the thread algae and also found a small amount of BBA on one of the moss fronds.
So last Saturday the lights went down to 4/10 and stayed there all week. There is noticeable growth by all plants for the last 7 days.
Even the ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI, which is the most demanding when it comes to light levels that I have, put on a few leaves.
So, this week the light will be set at 3.5/10 and I will keep an eye on the plants to check that they are still growing.

Wildlife:
BLADDER SNAILS and RAMSHORN SNAILS: Population has noticeably reduced. Might have to start feeding them this week at this rate. I have purchased a small tub of OASE ORGANIX SHRIMP GRANULATE, from my local fish shop (the most suitable thing they had). Tried a few granules and the snails just loved them. Only needs about 5 granules a week, I think. Otherwise I might cause a Ammonia spike?
CRANGONYX: Not seen one all week. I can only hope they are living in the settling out partition of the filter.
LUMBRICULUS: These pesky worms are everywhere. They seem to like living in the medium sponge. If I disturb the substrate at all, then I get several free swimming. Almost impossible not to hover up a few, when using the gravel cleaner.

Plants:
HYDROCOTYLE LEUCOCEPHALA: This has decided to grow out of the water over the top of the filter. I am having to prune the shoots that are above the water and train the rest into the tank.
HELANTHIUM BOLIVIANUM: This is sending so many runners. That corner is just a forest of them. I am having to prune a lot of runners that insist on heading into the rest of the tank.
ECHINODORUS 'AQUARTICA': I am hoping that this might send out babies soon, I understand that this is one way it propagates?
ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI: Growth slowed quite a lot. Only one new leaf.

Pics:

 

[Hufsa]

I love this journal, its so unique especially with the photos 🥰 All the patience and control in the world, everything I wish I could be
Keep it coming @The grumpy one

 

[The grumpy one]

Day203:

200 days, can't believe it has been that long since planting up. 29 weeks and still remembering to take a pic every day.

Still got thread algae, but only on the plants which receive the most light, 2 spots. It is easy to remove as it grows about 75mm long in a week. You can see it on Day 202 behind the ECHINODORUS 'AQUARTICA', poking it's head above. It is growing off the centre bunch of the ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI. Must mean the tank is healthy as thread algae is the closest to plants and likes the same conditions.

I will leave the lighting at 3.5 of 10 for another week. I could turn it down some more as there is still visible plant growth. In fact I can't see any slowing in the growth rate of any of the plants.

Plants:
HYDROCOTYLE LEUCOCEPHALA: This has now decided that it likes the top of the filter and looks wonderfully green and dense. I am just giving it a harsh prune every week back to the edge of the filter.
HELANTHIUM BOLIVIANUM: More runners, one of which decided to grow into the ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI. Removed that one. Took quite some time to untangle it without disturbing the ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI. Seems a waste throwing away healthy plants with formed roots. Yet another reason the start my bigger aquarium. Maybe I will take two weeks off over Easter!!!
ECHINODORUS 'AQUARTICA': No babies yet. It has grown a whole new leaf in a week. Might be time for some more root tabs.
ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI: The growth on this has visibly slowed, maybe even stopped???? I could focus more light in that corner, but that will only encourage the thread algae. "Catch 22".

Very busy week at work, so did not get much time to watch the Aquarium.

Pics: (NB sorry about the quality of Day 198 and Day202. Only time of year that the sun gets to the Aquarium and I did not notice the flare.)

PS: Hufsa, Thanks for the words of encouragement and praise. Much appreciated. I am glad that people are getting some enjoyment from my unique way of doing this journal. It is my way of reminding myself how I did things on the next Aquarium.

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi
Great journal....and a good read, thumbs up for the documentation!
Use some floating plants to help reduce thread algae, you might have to up your Nitrate fertilization as they will suck a fair amount out the water column!
hoggie

 

[The grumpy one]

Day 210

Thread algae is better this week. Still got some, but much less growth. Turned the lighting down to 3 of 10 on Sunday as there was a outbreak of green dust algae on back glass. I read that green dust algae is caused by "low CO₂, low nutrients and common in new setups" well yes I have low CO₂ as it is low tech. But the other two? Nutrients are defiantly high. setup is still quite new after 210 days of cycling?????
Algae Guide. Well just proves one size does not fit all.

Wildlife:
There has been an explosion of CYCOPS. I have read that they like still water. Well mine must be super-cyclops as they spend most of their time swimming into the fast currents and then going round and round the tank. Never see them in the calm areas of the tank. Maybe you just can't see them if they are not moving!
The rest of the wildlife population has stabilised. Although I did observe the LUMBRICULUS gathering on a bit of sponge by the filter. There must have been about a dozen of them writhing in a ball. Must have found something they like to eat there!!!!!!

Plants:
Even with the lighting down to 3 of 10 the plants are all still growing. Even the ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI has put on a new leaf on some of the stems.

Pics:

 

[The grumpy one]

Day 217

Yet another week. Soon be xmas. I seem to have got the thread algae under control. I have been running the lighting @ 3 of 10 for nearly two weeks. This week I will turn it up to 3.5 of 10 as the plant growth rate has slowed. The Green dust algae is still there, but the two patches have not got bigger. I was hoping that the snails would get rid of it. They do not seem to like it. I have often seen them grazing right over it, but no tram lines have appeared.

Wildlife:
BLADDER SNAILS: More babies. Some of the older ones are now the size of a 5p (Remember cash! It seems like years since I used cash last.) or a shirt button.
RAMSHORN SNAILS: My, there are a lot of them. Especially in the filter.
CRANGONYX: Shame, I liked watching them running about the substrate. I have not seen one for over 14 days now. Might have to go down the canal and see if I can find some replacements. I would be concerned that I misidentify and get some carnivorous bugger that eats all my snails and/or plants.
LUMBRICULUS: Never see much of them until I hover the substrate, then there are loads swimming for their lives.
CYCOPS: Yep, got a few of these! Still in a population explosion.

Plants:
HYDROCOTYLE LEUCOCEPHALA: A bit disappointed with this plant. It said it was good at hiding a filter. Not in my case. They way it grows, it looks like it would be happier growing flat across the substrate and not up the filter. I don't know if in the wild it grows as a carpet and not up things.
HELANTHIUM BOLIVIANUM: This is doing so well. I am having to search out the stolons (well I assume the runners are called stolons? Like strawberry plants) and cut any that grow out of their area. Found one 3 baby long growing through the dense Reineckii, must had been there a week.
ECHINODORUS 'AQUARTICA': I love this plant. It sends out a new leaf every week. It is a nice shade of green and has interesting texture to its leaves. The only thing is how delicate the leaves are. There are now a few holes and rips in the leaves, where I was over zealous with the tweezers or the gravel cleaner.
ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI: I love this plant too. It is just such a slow grower without CO₂. This week, with the light @ 3 of 10, there has been very little growth if at all. But it does grow very dense. That corner looks so heavily planted.
MOSS: I have decided to put this by the filter to fill in the hole left by the pennywort going straggly at the bottom. Just have to watch it does not get sucked into the filter holes.

Pics:

Thanks for reading.
Ian.

 

[The grumpy one]

Day224

And so it is Saturday again. Only a week until Easter break and I need it. Two weeks doing what I want to do will do me the world of good.
I had a idea on Monday! It is difficult to have a perspective on how much the plants have grown. So I got one of my steel rulers and taped it to the back of the tank. Now I can see exactly how much growth there is, without it just be relative to other plants or how many new leaves there are.

Water:
Thought I would just check the parameters. Not done it for 64 day. No reason why I should, but it is nice to have an idea if it is stable.

	Ammonia	Nitrite	Nitrate	PH	Carbonate hardness	General hardness
	NH₃	NO₂	NO₃
Days	mg/L or ppm	mg/L or ppm	mg/L or ppm		dKH	dGH
154	0.00	0.10	20.00	7.50	2.00	12.00
218	0.00	0.00	5.00	7.50	6.00	12.00

Nitrite is finally zero, at last my tank is cycled. Nitrate has gone down nicely. Carbonate hardness has tripled , which will at least let my snails grow some healthy shells ( yes I do read other posts "Shells turning white") as some of mine have suffered from this. Now I know why. Thanks all.

Wildlife:
Not much change here. The worms are having a party again (writhing around in a big ball). At this rate I will be able to sell them as fish food.

Plants:
HYDROCOTYLE LEUCOCEPHALA: After giving it a very hard trim last week, growth has slowed right down. Must remember not to give it such a close hair cut.
HELANTHIUM BOLIVIANUM: Sending out yet another stolon. I will defiantly have to thin this out soon. I just can't bring myself to.
ECHINODORUS 'AQUARTICA': Another whole leaf this week. Now I can say each new leaf is about 10cm long. So since my lights are on for 8hrs a day, that equates to 14mm per day or 1.78mm per hour.
ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI: This might be slow growing and the thread algae loves growing on it (brightest part of the tank as this plant needs more light than the others), but it is a very nice plant. This week some of the stems have grown 5mm. The main reason I put the ruler there was to see if it is growing at all.
MOSS: This gets everywhere. Pieces break off and before you know it, there is a new clump. Found some right inside the ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI patch. Pulled it out and it was about 7cm long. Still does a great job as a pre filter and collects all the big bits of stuff heading for the filter intake.

Pics:

As it is a sequence and not a detail of something, I like to reduce the size of the pics to 160 width. Speeds up page loading time, I hope. And if you want to see close you just click.

Thanks for reading and don't buy to much chocolate this week, you will only make yourself sick.

 

[Karmicnull]

HELANTHIUM BOLIVIANUM: Sending out yet another stolon. I will defiantly have to thin this out soon. I just can't bring myself to

I suffer from this problem too. I'm not good at being ruthless with happy plants. The chain sword does look fantastically happy in that corner.

 

[The grumpy one]

Day 231

I am so glad that I have 2 weeks annual leave booked over Easter. It has been a very long term and has taken all my energy. Time to recharge and maybe plan my new tank.

Water:
I dose 3ml/day of TNC complete and 1ml/day of Dennerle Carbo Elixir BIO.
This week I thought I would experiment a bit just to get an understanding of what, or even if, the Dennerle Carbo Elixir BIO is doing to growth.
I reduced the dose to 0.5ml/day on Sunday. I am going to continue with this dose for at least another week.

Wildlife:
BLADDER SNAILS: There are a lot of very small ones all over the ECHINODORUS 'AQUARTICA'. I wonder if the reduced dosing is having an effect on population???
RAMSHORN SNAILS: There shells are looking quite white. Odd as the dKH and PH are well within the good range for decent shell growth. I will give them a bit of shrimp food just in case.
CRANGONYX: Missing them. I wonder what caused there demise? Maybe the tank is just to clean for them to do well.
LUMBRICULUS: I managed to hover up at least 6 by mistake today. Not a problem as I estimate that the population is in the 100's
CYCOPS: Pity these are so small, I love the way the swim around. I bet they look quite interesting under a microscope.

Plants:
HYDROCOTYLE LEUCOCEPHALA: Although it looks, from the pics, like it is not growing. It is. Most of the growth now occurs out of the water. I am tempted to remove it all and replant it submerged?
HELANTHIUM BOLIVIANUM: Two more stolons the reduction in Dennerle Carbo Elixir BIO has had no effect to its growing rate this week.
ECHINODORUS 'AQUARTICA': Another leaf and a half this week. If anything it is growing faster without Dennerle Carbo Elixir BIO.
ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI: Very little growth this week maybe the odd leaf. According to the ruler at the back, now growth has taken place. So is this why I should keep the Dennerle Carbo Elixir BIO dose at 1ml/day? Time will tell.
MOSS: Just getting on with trying to take over the whole tank. Found lots of little bits, which had attached themselves all around the tank.

Pics:

Thanks for reading.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

CRANGONYX: Missing them. I wonder what caused there demise? Maybe the tank is just to clean for them to do well.

They might all be in the filter compartment.

cheers Darrel

 

[Hufsa]

Time to recharge and maybe plan my new tank.

Tell us more about this? 😃
Will it be an addition or a replacement? Size, style?

 

[The grumpy one]

Tell us more about this? 😃
Will it be an addition or a replacement? Size, style?

Still at the early planning stage, Hufsa. A bit of a spoiler (before I start another Journal). My living room has a hand made pine sideboard, 140cm x 46cm and 80cm high. I am thinking of building tank stands in the same style as the sideboard, either side. So it would be two tanks the same size (I would do them one at a time, that way I can learn from my mistakes). My TV is situated on the sideboard, so tanks would be the same height as the TV. Lots of design decisions on size of tanks. How high to make it and still be able to get my arm in to maintain without a ladder. Ratio between height and width? Was thinking of the golden ratio between visible water, but this would make it not very wide or very tall. Thought about TV 16:9 ratio? but this makes its width even less that golden ratio. I think that tanks need to be quite deep (As I can go deeper than the sideboards 46cm, by moving it away from the wall) and this will have an big effect of volume. The total volume is another issue as I feel that it is important to be at least 150 litres. The lighting and if I want to have a closed box in top of the tank. I will have a closed tank with condensation cover, I think it open top tanks would not be a good idea? The amount of condensation going into the house and the evaporation rate worries me, Harder to control the water parameters.

Sorry, thoughts just came flooding out. It is a total juggling act until I come up with a solution. Whatever dimensions I come up with, I will get a bespoke tank. Probably from "Aquariums4life".

Then we get to the self made internal filter or off the shelf external filter............... Argh, Sorry started to flood ideas again.

Might have to start new journal sooner than I was planning, just to cover planning stage.
But what to call the journal???? Any suggestions?

I bet you wished you had not asked, Hufsa.

 

[Hufsa]

I bet you wished you had not asked, Hufsa.

Not at all 😄 I love the passion, I bet it will look great and look forward to the journal 😃
Maybe consider if condensation will get into the TV?