Reconstituters....

[HiNtZ]

Hi all, As a salt the pentahydrate (MgCO3.5H2O) is of similar density to sodium chloride (NaCl), but yours is "food grade" and really finely ground. You could make it denser by heating, the anhydrous salt will be denser (water has a density of "1", and your salt will be hydrated), but you've already paid for the water. Salts that "want" to be hydrated can only be kept anhydrous by storing with a desiccant in a air tight container.

You can think of it as the difference between snow and ice, or <"granulated and icing sugar">, ice and granulated sugar are a lot denser, because they don't contain the air that the fine powders do.

cheers Darrel

But the weight is what counts at the end of the day right? Like a ton of feathers and a ton of bricks - both are a ton still (excluding the moisture it may/may not have absorbed)?

I just played with the MgCO3 - 1 litre RO, small pinch of MgCO3 and it turned really milky. It's like it semi-dissolved. Then I added a small pinch of ascorbic acid and now it's crystal clear.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

But the weight is what counts at the end of the day right?

Yes.

(excluding the moisture it may/may not have absorbed)?

It will be a hydrate unless you've heated it and then kept it in an air tight container, it just means that if you work out the Mg or CO3 content on a weight basis you need to add in the <"water of crystallization">.

I've just found that the stable form of magnesium carbonate <"is the trihydrate"> (MgCO3.3H2O)

I just played with the MgCO3 - 1 litre RO, small pinch of MgCO3 and it turned really milky. It's like it semi-dissolved. Then I added a small pinch of ascorbic acid and now it's crystal clear.

It is back to the carbonate solubility rules, magnesium carbonate is "sparingly soluble" in water so if you add more than the smallest amount most will remain un-dissolved. Carbonates are soluble in acids ((MgCO3 + 2 HCl → MgCl2 + CO2 + H2O)), so adding the ascorbic acid will dissolve the milky fraction.

cheers Darrel

 

[HiNtZ]

So these tiny amounts, the tipping point at which it stays dissolved or not - is there a limit for such a GH/KH calculation where this will simply stop working? Would increasing the acidity of the water offset the amount which would be added extra?

We are talking about the carbonates being the problem here right? Not the actual Ca or Mg.... not sure if that makes sense as a question but is this why other forms of Ca/Mg as sulfates for example don't have these dissolution problems?

Sorry to be a pain with stupid questions. I'm really eager to understand all aspects.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

is there a limit for such a GH/KH calculation where this will simply stop working?

Usually dGH and dKH are the same, because they originate from CaCO3, but you can create water with a high dGH and no dKH (if you add MgSO4.7H2O etc) or water with no dGH and a high dKH, if you add NaHCO3 etc.

Would increasing the acidity of the water offset the amount which would be added extra?

When you add an acid to a solution with HCO3- ions you don't change the total amount of Total/Dissolved Inorganic Carbon (TIC/DIC) you just change the form that it is in from HCO3- to CO2 gas.



The amount of DIC is regulated by the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, when you add pressurised CO2 you can just think of that as analogous to an atmosphere richer in CO2.

We are talking about the carbonates being the problem here right? Not the actual Ca or Mg.... not sure if that makes sense as a question but is this why other forms of Ca/Mg as sulfates for example don't have these dissolution problems?

That's it. Some calcium compounds dissolve readily (like CaCl2), but the carbonate doesn't.

The only carbonate compounds that are soluble in water are the Group 1 alkali metals, sodium (Na), potassium (K) etc. Nearly all group I metal containing compounds are soluble.

When you add potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) to water it becomes K+ and HCO3- ions, but if that water already has HCO3- and Ca++ ions in solution, the less soluble calcium carbonate will precipitate out. This is the <"common ion effect">.

A practical example used very widely in areas drawing drinking water from chalk or limestone aquifers is the addition of sodium carbonate to the raw water to reduce the hardness of the water. In the water treatment process, highly soluble sodium carbonate salt is added to precipitate out sparingly soluble calcium carbonate. The very pure and finely divided precipitate of calcium carbonate that is generated is a valuable by-product used in the manufacture of toothpaste.

Toothpaste - Wikipedia

cheers Darrel

 

[goldscapes]

I must admit this thread is mostly beyond me but I think it opitimises the depth of understanding, dedication and supportive nature of the UKAPS members and experts.

All credit to @HiNtZ and @dw1305 for sharing their experiences and expertise in this thread - @LondonDragon surely this is a keeper, it just needs a suitable home!

 

[HiNtZ]

I must admit this thread is mostly beyond me but I think it opitimises the depth of understanding, dedication and supportive nature of the UKAPS members and experts.

All credit to @HiNtZ and @dw1305 for sharing their experiences and expertise in this thread - @LondonDragon surely this is a keeper, it just needs a suitable home!

Not sure I contribute much more than problems and questions when I get round to posting! 5 years in and I'm still suffering...

X3NiTH and Darrel have really both helped immensely. Darrel's got a good way of breaking the science down & has lots of experience (always see him among others in the archives), also very good at providing further reading, links to other discussions and scientific papers.

X3NiTH has started me on the road with the recipe too. There's literally no discussion anywhere else on the internet on dissolving this stuff. I found one thread on another fish forum but it was brief.

 

[HiNtZ]

When you add potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) to water it becomes K+ and HCO3- ions, but if that water already has HCO3- and Ca++ ions in solution, the less soluble calcium carbonate will precipitate out. This is the <"common ion effect">. cheers Darrel

So literally pushes the least soluble compound out of solution? This is fascinating - I wonder if there are any videos online of an accelerated demonstration of this? Obviously I don't want to find out for myself, hah!

Thanks again Darrel for taking the time.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

So literally pushes the least soluble compound out of solution?

Yes, there is always the <"same sequence of salts"> going in and out of solution. It also effects the amount of dissolved gas that a solution can hold, sea water is <"fully saturated with oxygen"> at a lower level than fresh water (for the same temperature) because it is a much saltier solution.

Carbonate salts differ from the other salts in that they are more soluble at lower temperatures (because gas solubility is higher at lower temperatures), for the other salts solubility increases with water temperature.

There's literally no discussion anywhere else on the internet on dissolving this stuff.

You really need to look at the scientific literature. I'm lucky because I can always ask a proper scientist at work if I'm not sure about something.

This is fascinating - I wonder if there are any videos online of an accelerated demonstration of this?

cheers Darrel

 

[HiNtZ]

Hey guys - so I gave this a go earlier in the week.

GH: 6 KH: 6.6

CaCO3 - 6g in 75L = 32.04ppm Ca
4.47 dKH
4.47 dGH

MgCO3 - 0.75g in 75L = 2.88ppm Mg
0.66 dGH
0.83 dKH

NaHCO3 - 2.25g in 75L = 1 dKH
8.1 Na

MgCl2 - 0.93g in 75L = 0.35 dGH
1.5ppm Mg
4.37 Cl

MgSo4 - 2.8g in 75L = 0.6 dGH
3.12 Mg
4.05 S

dGH 6.08
dKH 6.65
Ca 32.04ppm
Mg 7.5ppm
S 4.05ppm
Na 8.1ppm
Cl 4.37ppm

Ratio: 4.3/1

Mixed all that into 3L of carbonated water (I'm waiting on the home carbonating kit and regulator to do my own - which reminds me, can I carbonate pure RO?!) I had lots of fun drying myself off afterwards - I hadn't realised the amount of gas that would be produced! Anyway, it pretty much dissolved bar a modicum of silt at the bottom of the barrel. I figured that would be fully dissolved within an hour or two at 6.5ph in the tank.

I think my calculations above are correct.....

 

[X3NiTH]

Can I carbonate pure RO?
I had lots of fun drying myself off afterwards - I hadn't realised the amount of gas that would be produced.
Pretty much dissolved bar a modicum of silt at the bottom

Yes no problem carbonating RO/DI (0TDS).
Did warn you it could get messy, you'll need the spice bags!
Don't see the addition of an acid in your recipe it will help the reaction out by adding some, (I'm using Ascorbic Acid).

Your values look correct, I take it you are using the Sodium Bicarbonate for extra KH because your either you don't have the Potassium Bicarbonate yet or are you going to use KNO₃ for the K? I've seen best results with Mg:K:NO₃ @ 1:1:1 so you can dose way more MgCO₃ (your MgCO₃ is likely Magnesium Carbonate Pentahydrate).
Magnesium Carbonate Pentahydrate

I would say you don't need that much Sodium, the only sodium I am adding comes from the DIY traces I make up as either Sodium Boron Decahydrate (Borax but I've swapped to Boric Acid which has no sodium) and Sodium Molybdate, so Sodium is there but in trace amounts. Anecdotally from what I've read Sodium in plants get used in lieu of Potassium if the environmental K levels are very low.

🙂

 

[ian_m]

Anecdotally from what I've read Sodium in plants get used in lieu of Potassium if the environmental K levels are very low.

You clearly read the wrong articles and don't think about what falsity you have just read. 😕.

Why do you think the sea is salty ?

Because there are virtually no biological processes that use sodium in any decent quantity, this why all the sodium (in form of chloride) washed out of rocks/soil ends up in the oceans. There is nothing, plant or animal, using it.

 

[X3NiTH]

Ha ha, ok sorry 'in lieu' probably wasn't the best choice of words and reading it back it does sound silly as it makes it sound as if plants can actually beneficially use Sodium as a replacement ion to Potassium. Doesn't stop the plant taking it up though.

Potassium Substitution by Sodium in Plants
Article in - Critical Reviews in Plant Sciences July 2011

I know it's a paper on non aquatic plants specifically but all plants were once aquatic. My point is why add Sodium when it's easily avoided in anything but trace amounts and I'm saying trace because I wouldn't want to omit it entirely just in case a plant may have a need for it, I'm clearly not 'ooh all bad' about using Sodium Bicarbonate as I've used it in the past and plants are obviously tolerant to the Sodium, but at what ratio does it become either Antagonistic or Synergistic depending on the ratio with other ions is unknown to me (if someone can dismantle Mulders chart and give real numbers and ratios to what it describes, well that would be real appreciated) and since the recipe I have described above tries to supply literally an all you can eat buffet (an attempt at the nice balanced hard'ish Tap/Karst Water you all seem to have great success with) I chose to omit Sodium in anything other than trace. Don't see anything wrong with that?

🙂

 

[HiNtZ]

Yes no problem carbonating RO/DI (0TDS).
Did warn you it could get messy, you'll need the spice bags!
Don't see the addition of an acid in your recipe it will help the reaction out by adding some, (I'm using Ascorbic Acid).

Your values look correct, I take it you are using the Sodium Bicarbonate for extra KH because your either you don't have the Potassium Bicarbonate yet or are you going to use KNO₃ for the K? I've seen best results with Mg:K:NO₃ @ 1:1:1 so you can dose way more MgCO₃ (your MgCO₃ is likely Magnesium Carbonate Pentahydrate).
Magnesium Carbonate Pentahydrate

I would say you don't need that much Sodium, the only sodium I am adding comes from the DIY traces I make up as either Sodium Boron Decahydrate (Borax but I've swapped to Boric Acid which has no sodium) and Sodium Molybdate, so Sodium is there but in trace amounts. Anecdotally from what I've read Sodium in plants get used in lieu of Potassium if the environmental K levels are very low.

🙂

Sorry forgot to mention I am adding a small amount of ascorbic acid....

I also do have KHCO3, I just wanted to experiment a little with and without sodium. I could never test the theory that sodium -/+ has any benefits. I read many things over the years and there's been debates both ways about it so figured I'd draw my own conclusions. I'm pretty well equipped with various salts now to have the freedom to mess around. I'd like next year to start making my own traces too so this is good practice.

Cheers

 

[HiNtZ]

Well.... I don't know what's happened but my problems have literally completely disappeared.... and not just the suspected lack/excess of something that was causing induced Ca deficiency (zinc? manganese? I'm almost certain it was something in the trace inducing it but alas, it is just an anecdotal opinion and I could never say with such conviction that was the problem).

What did I change?

In short..... A LOT.

I made up some water using the very helpful information in this discussion here and got 100% dissolution after a few hours in the barrels before even needing the acidic conditions of the tank to finish it off. Very happy with that to say the least.

Next, I dumped EI. It worked fantastically well for me in the beginning with straight tap (14GH 12KH). When I moved to half cutting the tap with RO things started to go dodgy. Plants were in a stasis of growth with health that was barely clinging on. It was mostly colours that were not right. Structural damage was minimal. It was a limbo.

So I thought I'll reconstitute the RO with GH booster and NAHCO3 and keep on with EI. Disaster! Pest MTS population wiped out over night. GH was 6 KH5 - so hardly anything to do with being too soft. PH was around 6.2 so perhaps if anything, that was a factor... but why so quickly?? I have a low tech downstairs same water parameters (albeit PH is 6.8) that has hundreds of the bloody things. The difference between the tanks is that one gets EI and the other gets a half dose of profito.

I've always considered the macroelements to not be completely blameless in the grand scheme of things. I think there is still such a thing as "too much". Not as in danger levels to livestock or plants in that they will kill them.... just it won't be optimal for certain tank conditions. I mean if you're uptaking 10ppm NO3 a day, then by all means dose it with that. Not doing so would be silly. However, I don't think default EI is a one size fits all solution. Even Tom maintains that there is some adjustments that should be made depending on other factors which is fair enough. It does exactly what it says on the tin - you estimate how much YOUR tank uses. It's just up to you how you get there. Start high and reduce? Or start low and increase? Me personally I would start in the middle, 1/2 EI for half a week and see how that takes you to water change. Observe, adjust, repeat. If I am completely honest, I thought in the beginning I've got CO2, high light and the EI kit mix the bottles up, job done. I was naive but I am wiser for it now.

So - in the three days since the lovely water I made and added to the tank the improvements are already evident. BUT - I also wound right down on dosing. It can hardly be called EI, and not because of the reduced dose but because I've dropped KNO3 out of the dosing. Now my regime looks a little like this:


WC (I do these at night under moonlight) + 10ppm K (from K2SO4 - I'll substitute this for the carbonate in the next mix)

Day 1
Trace -
B 0.0038
Cu 0.0008
Fe 0.03 (as EDTA)
Fe 0.05 (as a mix of DTPA and EDDHA)
Mn 0.0066
Mo 0.00054
Zn 0.004

PO4 0.5 (slightly apart from the trace)
Urea 0.7

Day 2

Urea 0.7
Fe 0.06 (DTPA/EDDHA)
K 2

Then to day 7 (water change) alternating the same.

Next step will be to monitor it a bit longer than 3/4 days before getting too excited but I know my r. rotundifolia as if it was my child and I know when it's not happy. Well this afternoon when I return the leaves have doubled in size. They aren't spindly thin.... they are like huge lobes. I know something has changed for the better because it's been about a year since I've had it anywhere near good health. My sunset was rolling its leaves up like tubes down the mid rib. This had something to do with induce Ca I mentioned earlier by something in the trace. Cutting trace completely out stopped it happening - interestingly enough GDA disappeared too (but came back if I added trace). All plants were yellow during these problems and h. difformis had a marbled veiny look to its leaves which looked like Mg, but induced too because I was adding it. This only stood to intensify the problems the trace may have been causing whereas ridiculous amounts of K alleviated the symptoms slightly.

I don't know where I'm going with this rambling but there you go.... perhaps I have realised how invaluable all the aquatic forums have been in my quest and the more information that I put in the post about my issues, the more relevant the google results will be for people to find us who have spent years trying to make sense of it all. Other people's problems and solutions being solved has helped immensely and I'm only too happy to contribute my own tribulations if it will at least help people realise they aren't the only ones who have problem because it certainly can feel like that when you see some member's amazing tanks here juxtaposed to your own horrid mess!

Anyway, I'll (try to) shut up now..... I WILL update this I PROMISE. If there's one thing that really bothers me it's people who get massive threads going with the issues then disappear at the end without telling anyone what they did or what happened with the advice they were given! Did they leave the hobby fed up of the problems and the money it costs etc etc? Or was it more a case of they solved the problem and were so happy and overwhelmed with their tank they forgot to let us know.

I'll post a pic of the tank tomorrow then a few every week regardless of what happens - I was pretty embarrassed to post pics for the past year because of how bad it looked but I do have a few pics of the symptoms I encountered on different plants for future reference.

Cheers guys!

 

[X3NiTH]

Good to hear!

It worked for me to alleviate deficiencies in Bucephalandra but that took time (weeks) to see improvements, impressive that you are seeing such a change in your stem plants so quickly!

🙂

 

[HiNtZ]

Good to hear!

It worked for me to alleviate deficiencies in Bucephalandra but that took time (weeks) to see improvements, impressive that you are seeing such a change in your stem plants so quickly!

🙂

At the height of my successes with the tank (years ago) I was culling plants bi-weekly. Ok so they are relatively fast growers overall but others like P. Stellatus were still putting inches on over just 24hrs - I was literally watching them grow. The canopies were huge, like umbrellas and the leaves broad and flat and the colours, amazing - orange, purple tinges of blue and silver. I really miss it how it used to be. Even that is showing great signs now but is much greener than I remember it being. It was always a bit custardy, but nice with it.

I run the tank pretty harsh as per lighting and CO2 because I am impatient at seeing results from my little tests. Not a good way upsetting the balance all the time. I did always, always do 80% average water changes when the tank would start going downhill mid week though - I've been resetting A LOT which is why I think the plants have hung on for almost a year now.

 

[HiNtZ]

Oh and.... are we ready for a ferrous gluconate discussion?

I've wanted to incorporate it for a while. Any advice?

Cheers

 

[HiNtZ]

Here is the tank today:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1i8G5Nxl6ORBYJkgB907J9C65J5AScSD5
https://drive.google.com/open?id=17CcheXCY0gUytbhEGBRRKnQydovMU2ta
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yALATpiun1m61Y2b-cAqOdR46RQM3I8Q
https://drive.google.com/open?id=14hjSINQ1iGdaSXMhNjssISQJTCf3PMB9
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Z9B21e4sMkT4l5EipvTT3Lc58abGgImZ
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NZ4L-ay5X_e8T2I_CF2dpIR-eJ187t5V
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SPNDSgE0EWscw1xDX4GYp_ZdwqIpGc_a

Here are a couple of photos from before changing things up - I didn't take pics at its worst:

This is what the polysperma did - it would do this overnight after EI micro dose, without fail. I doubled the dose and it got worse, lessen the dose and it got better. Some discussions have proposed an induced Ca deficiency.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a0I8lHd3kO_9PP_5Ef0skYuDRNGe39Tl

Not the best photo of the wisteria I think I have better ones somewhere but the lime green newer growth was constant, and instead of slightly darkening as the leaf matured it became more and more lime green but with dark green veins. Most would say Mg, except I added a little, some, and a lot to rule it out.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-X5pQnmKCjYIViYCbpR_rsU24Ig_Xt-_

Similar with repens with the lime green again and patchy between veins. Mg, again?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1BFcwx5W6HzNe6IcMin_KvABQUbHyeHnM


This photo I just found is from last year, when things were a lot better. This was under EI and same CO2 as I run today, maybe even a bit less.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wZJ-7KKkr6W59Lwu4hWqMihiFFSZ9La2

😕

 

[HiNtZ]

Another thing worth mentioning is that in the past the APF Trace:

27.4g in 500ml - 10ml dose 3 x week (150L tank)

Fe 8.2%
Mn 1.82%
Zn 1.16%
B 1.05%
Cu 0.23%
Mo 0.15%

EDTA

Causes way, way more problems than profito:

10ml per 100 litres

Fe 0.24%
Mg 0.31%
B 0.02%
Mn 0.10%
Zn 0.002%
Cu 0.003%
Al 0.003%
Co 0.003%
Ni 0.003%
Li 0.003%
Se 0.002%
Va 0.003%
Sc 0.001%
Te 0.002%
Nb 0.002%
Mo 0.002%

EDTA/DTPA/NTA

My better times were usually with profito...... I also found someone else who noticed improvements when they switched

, i recently switched from Chelated Traces to Easy Life Profito Ferro and i see improvements and i wonder why , my Kh is 5

 

[X3NiTH]

If you're within the pH parameters for EDTA to remain stable it works extremely well.

I had great success with it full EI as per recommended instructions when I was running a tank with near 0dKH and had an active substrate (Fluval Stratum Shrimp) where the water pH profile was from below 6.5 down to 5.2ish (or lower). The problems started for me with EDTA when somehow the tank water KH rose 12 points in the space of a week, wow that was a wacky week, had no idea what was going on until the plants started to look really bad and then I tested everything and saw the KH pegged out when it should read near zero, on reflection I suspected the stratum substrate just disgorged all or any KH it stored up over time after a micro dosing accident (200ml got dosed because I got distracted and forgot I had the autodoser running, did water changes to rectify it but the substrate must have been done for) and the pH rose taking it out of range for the best use of EDTA. Remineralisation here was entirely Bee Shrimp Mineral GH+.

It didn't stop me from using EDTA though, I continued to do so but fortified it with DTPA to take into consideration that after a total restart (for Bucephalandra) I was going to add KH to bring the water to a more neutral pH (Seachem Alkili alongside Bee Shrimp GH+), stem plants always did well but the Buce always struggled with deficiencies or melted away entirely either bottom up or top down. Reading as much scientific literature as I could find on Bucephalandra and a side note anecdote (not supported by any measurements) of 'Sensitivity to Metals in water' gave pause for thought specifically because the mix of salts in a bag of EDTA trace are non homogenous, the ratio of elements could be very slightly out of whack in each teaspoon especially more so when you aim to get some copper sulphate crystals in (because that's really the only element apart from the iron that you can differentiate from the other salts), thus trying to pin exact ratios down is fruitless unless you mix the entire bag in one go into water (providing the bag has had weighted elements in a known exact ratio added to this bag and not taken from an even larger bag where each scoop may have a slightly different ratio), in the grand scheme of things this shouldn't really be a problem unless you are trying to pin down a particularly sensitive element (Cu?). So I looked into it and went about doing things differently and because my concentration was about Buce I specifically looked at how they get their nutrients in the natural environment and what their sources are. (I should note that my Remineralisation strategy here changed and I replaced the Seachem Alkili for Potassium Bicarbonate, not because it wasn't working but because I ran out and was too stingy to pay for more).

From where I could find analysis about water where Buce are likely to live Copper is present in very trace amounts where it is noted as <0.00mg/L (it's not saying it's not present just likely that the test doesn't detect it below this level) but Manganese could be as high as 0.05mg/L, so in the first instance I fortified my EDTA/DTPA mix with extra manganese (because my plant symptoms appeared to indicate K deficiency (pinholes in leaves) alongside Ca deficiency (loss of structural integrity, fancy way of saying melt) when they were present in abundance, literature appeared to point he finger at manganese for these combination of symptoms. This actually helped a lot and temporarily alleviated some of the problems but never entirely, root health was always an issue so I started adding phytohormones to help out the roots (I'm growing Buce entirely epiphytically on Bogwood and the roots have no access to an interstitial soil) again this helped but things still weren't right. Around this point I changed things up and started front loading the macro weekly at water change and dosing micro daily.

Staring at Mulders chart (often) and trying to match it with real numbers (you'll get through a lot of fertilisation literature doing this and come across an enormous amount of data not always correlative) I came to the conclusion that antagonism really is a thing and its ratios not total concentrations that work and you also need to pick the appropriate micro chelate.

Determined to fix this situation I decided to stop using EDTA and swapped to Flourish Comprehensive fortified with DTPA and Flourish Trace, spiced up a little with some extra manganese, all dosed beyond their bottle label recommended levels by targeting EI micro daily rates. At this point for remineralisation I reduced the potassium bicarbonate levels by using powdered cuttlefish bone instead which reduced the need for Bee Shrimp GH+ (down to a pinch for the chlorides) and started front loading macro weekly with extra magnesium sulphate. Things were going in the right direction and I was seeing huge improvements in Buce health by ratioising everything by this point, but it was going to be seriously draining on the wallet to do so using Seachem Trace (using because it's non chelated for low persistence), so decided to DIY everything including my simulated Karst water recipe were discussing here.

I'm 4 weeks + into no water change with my daily micro dosing, (micro daily level listed way above, copper is in this mix, have dosed extra MgNO₃ and KH₂PO₄), GDA on the glass and BBA increasing but I'm not seeing any signs of toxicity, I may or may not have accumulation happening, however my equilibrium pH is now 7.95 up from 7.8 (no extra KH added, inert substrate), my other tank (getting same treatment, ert substrate) has risen by the same 0.15 points, so over 4 weeks the chemistry has slightly changed, the daily micro solution is acidic at pH3.2. I run electrocoagulation at night so I am ruminating that hydroxides may be accumulating (without testing, no idea).

🙂